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#161 dmann422

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 05:03 PM

Another person who takes a quote and distorts it. No one said the "locker room is lost". It might even totally turn around. You waste everyone's time if you start debating things no one is arguing.

As far as your second point goes, well, it's unoriginal and fallacious. We all know winning is the most important thing, please don't present the point in a didactic matter. Just because winning makes things better does not make false the arguments about a coach losing a locker room when not winning. It is still a coach's duty to maintain the players' unity when losing, winning, or somewhere in between.

lol you are doing exactly what you accused me of doing- extrapolating one comment out of context to try and prove a point nobody is arguing.

I never argued what a coaches duty is. All I said was it's too early to say that deboer is losing the lockeroom. If we win games, nobody is concerned about the lockeroom culture, and jagr has nothing to complain about. Not sure how anything I said was such a "waste of time."- in fact I'd argue I'm trying to save everyone time by not trying to read into one players comments too much.
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#162 dmann422

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 05:08 PM

..because we don't need to. There's little need to dissect each and every quote without knowing the score on this one. The title of this thread is; "Fire DeBoer" -and 193 wins in 433 games coached is enough of a reason for me to not consider bringing him back for a 7th NHL season. -Sorry!
This organization was never satisfied with mediocrity (go ask Claude Juilen) ..it's a shame we've gotten used to it somewhere over the last 4 seasons.

to the contrary, I'm not the one dissecting each and every quote. That's exactly what im arguing against. If you want to fire deboer based on team performance I can't argue with that nor have I tried to...I may not agree but I respect the opinion.

But off the ice is an entirely different story- Nobody knows the inner working of the lockeroom but believe you me if there was some sort of bad blood in there Lou would not stand for it, so if something does come from the line changes/jagrs reaction, we'll find out soon enough.
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#163 Neb00rs

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 05:12 PM

lol you are doing exactly what you accused me of doing- extrapolating one comment out of context to try and prove a point nobody is arguing.

I never argued what a coaches duty is. All I said was it's too early to say that deboer is losing the lockeroom. If we win games, nobody is concerned about the lockeroom culture, and jagr has nothing to complain about. Not sure how anything I said was such a "waste of time."- in fact I'd argue I'm trying to save everyone time by not trying to read into one players comments too much.

 

Um...no wrong again. I responded to direct quotes of yours. You did not do so in your reply to me. Sorry. You used the non-existent quote the "locker room is lost" and said "results are all that matter." Reread. 


Edited by Neb00rs, 05 February 2014 - 05:12 PM.

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#164 dmann422

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 05:52 PM

Um...no wrong again. I responded to direct quotes of yours. You did not do so in your reply to me. Sorry. You used the non-existent quote the "locker room is lost" and said "results are all that matter." Reread.

you are being very presumptuous. I specifically did not quote your post because I was not responding directly to you. There were others in this thread bringing up the culture of the lockeroom and I made a general comment about the direction that the thread was going. I suppose I could have multiquoted but that's very difficult to do on my phone so I apologize for your confusion.

Your arguing with me is doing exactly what you are supposedly trying to avoid which is "waste everyone's time." Whether my point is original or not is immaterial to the conversation- I'm simply saying that you and others reading into jägr comments as some sort of proof that the lockeroom has soured on deboer is premature. If we win on Friday with the revised lines jägr has nothing to complain about. You say that everyone knows winning is the most important thing but you seem to want to separate the on ice results from the lockeroom culture, when in fact both are so closely intertwined its impossible to do.

Jägr's quotes can not be taken by themselves as proof of any sort of lockeroom mood, iits simply one player's immediate reaction to a change. I could just as easily argue there are other players who through their silence approve of the change.
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#165 Devils Pride 26

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 06:24 PM

Jagr is a diva, he opens his mouth all the time. Him being frustrated with a desicion is normal.

Losing the locker room is getting into a sh!t fit with langenbrunner and wanting to name a captain for the game he sits. Losing the locker room is benching Kovy because no one is playing with any effort.

Debo is too passive to lose the locker room.
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#166 dmann422

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 06:35 PM

Jagr is a diva, he opens his mouth all the time. Him being frustrated with a desicion is normal.
Losing the locker room is getting into a sh!t fit with langenbrunner and wanting to name a captain for the game he sits. Losing the locker room is benching Kovy because no one is playing with any effort.
Debo is too passive to lose the locker room.

this in agree with, if anything I read Jägr's comments a selfishness- he wants his players on his line, even if the coach thinks the best thing for the team is to try zajac with Elias.
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#167 devilsrule33

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 06:45 PM

Jagr is a diva, he opens his mouth all the time. Him being frustrated with a desicion is normal.

Losing the locker room is getting into a sh!t fit with langenbrunner and wanting to name a captain for the game he sits. Losing the locker room is benching Kovy because no one is playing with any effort.

Debo is too passive to lose the locker room.

 

The funny thing is the things that the majority of the board wanted at some point (me included) is the stuff that probably loses a locker room. Scratch or send down Gionta...that pisses off a lot of people. Scratch your captain and that could be messy.

 

Not saying Gionta deserves to be scratched, but I don't think Josefson getting a game for him would be terrible. My point is that it would probably not sit so well in the room. Salvador is not an upgrade over anyone, but if they bumped him for Larsson...that wouldn't go over well.

 

Anyway, Deboer tries to get the offense going by shaking up the lines...and that pisses people off here? Really?


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#168 HellOnICE

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 06:49 PM

We don't know what Lou has been trying to do via moving people if he's been wanting to showcase Salvador, etc. We have no idea. I'd like to see JJ in for Gionta at somepoint, but again, it's just deck chairs.


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#169 LucifersDog

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 07:30 PM

Jagr comments are Jagr coments that's all. I would be more concerned if Elias said it.

 

I do understand the move but maybe at the expense of what Zajac and Jagr could produce.

 

All I can tell you is the Devils are in trouble and that's on Lou.


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#170 thefiestygoat

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 09:32 PM

We don't know what Lou has been trying to do via moving people if he's been wanting to showcase Salvador, etc. We have no idea. I'd like to see JJ in for Gionta at somepoint, but again, it's just deck chairs.

Very true we don't know what Lou's been doing to clear the D logjam, but I think a lot of the frustration around here is how long he has dragged it out. While I think a lot of teams would add Salvador because he's a vet, has playoff experience, etc. despite his recent play, I'd be shocked if Lou moved him.


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#171 CarpathianForest

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 09:34 PM

Very true we don't know what Lou's been doing to clear the D logjam, but I think a lot of the frustration around here is how long he has dragged it out. While I think a lot of teams would add Salvador because he's a vet, has playoff experience, etc. despite his recent play, I'd be shocked if Lou moved him.

 

Yeah. It's not like he's Jamie Langs


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#172 Neb00rs

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 10:07 PM

Jagr is a diva, he opens his mouth all the time. Him being frustrated with a desicion is normal.

Losing the locker room is getting into a sh!t fit with langenbrunner and wanting to name a captain for the game he sits. Losing the locker room is benching Kovy because no one is playing with any effort.

Debo is too passive to lose the locker room.

 

Yes, that is "losing the locker room." My point is that these are the signs of beginning to lose the confidence of the group of guys who wear the skates.It is the first signs of losing the room and that can be totally thwarted of course. Summing this up to "Jagr is a diva, he opens his mouth all the time," is unwise and unnecessary. Jagr is open with his opinions, but MUCH less of a prima donna than years ago and you shouldn't condemn the guy to that title forever. Secondly, whether he is a 'diva' or not, he is our leading scorer and part of the team and when the head coach doesn't have the confidence of a player within those parameters, it does hint at the BEGINNINGS of trouble.

 

Saying "Debo is too passive to lose the locker room" is also unwise - he has lost locker rooms before, and there are many personalities who rub players the wrong way - but I took this comment of yours as half tongue-in-cheek.

 

 

The funny thing is the things that the majority of the board wanted at some point (me included) is the stuff that probably loses a locker room. Scratch or send down Gionta...that pisses off a lot of people. Scratch your captain and that could be messy.

 

Not saying Gionta deserves to be scratched, but I don't think Josefson getting a game for him would be terrible. My point is that it would probably not sit so well in the room. Salvador is not an upgrade over anyone, but if they bumped him for Larsson...that wouldn't go over well.

 

Anyway, Deboer tries to get the offense going by shaking up the lines...and that pisses people off here? Really?

 

 

The first part you wrote is a great point. As far as the last line goes, it doesn't piss me off at all. But it pisses Jagr (and possibly others) off.


Edited by Neb00rs, 05 February 2014 - 10:10 PM.

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#173 SterioDesign

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 08:20 AM

Jagr comments are Jagr coments that's all. I would be more concerned if Elias said it.

 

I do understand the move but maybe at the expense of what Zajac and Jagr could produce.

 

All I can tell you is the Devils are in trouble and that's on Lou.

 

Yet when Elias said he didnt like Lou's approach with UFAs... everyone here discarded it. lol People just want to take what they want and they'll shove aside what they don't want whoever says what, its that simple.


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#174 lazer

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 10:16 AM

doing nothing is always an option

 

and this is the side effect of that

 

fragile, unstable psyches and superstitions

 

This is on Lou; yet every time Debo juggles lines, its never what you would want them to be, which is difficult considering how often he does.

 

yet again i think devils are doing well all things considered.


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#175 DJ Eco

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 10:51 AM

The funny thing is the things that the majority of the board wanted at some point (me included) is the stuff that probably loses a locker room. Scratch or send down Gionta...that pisses off a lot of people. Scratch your captain and that could be messy.

 

Not saying Gionta deserves to be scratched, but I don't think Josefson getting a game for him would be terrible. My point is that it would probably not sit so well in the room. Salvador is not an upgrade over anyone, but if they bumped him for Larsson...that wouldn't go over well.

 

Anyway, Deboer tries to get the offense going by shaking up the lines...and that pisses people off here? Really?

 

You're absolutely right.


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#176 thecoffeecake

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 10:43 PM

..you're out of your mind. Jagr was hardly venting to the media by saying; "there's alot I could say, but I won't" -and questioning the motive of this change. He's right to question it. Jagr & Zajac have combined for nearly 80 points in 55 games. They're not the problem. The problem is DeBoer. He's under .500 the three years in NJ, just as he was the 3 years with the Panthers. If it comes to siding with the logic of a 42 year-old Jagr -vs- a 45 year-old coach who's made the playoffs once in 6 years.. I'm siding with JJ.
PD has one foot already in the grave, and he's desperately trying anything and everything before the clock strikes midnight. The only reason Lou hasn't already pulled the trigger is because there's too many games left in the season to not save face for the incumbent Scott Stevens. By March when there's a smaller sample size left for Stevens, like 17 games left to play (if they still can't stop the bleeding) Cousin Eddie will be shown the door, and coaching in Kitchener next season.

How do you not see a problem with what he said there? He's blowing on the fire with quotes like that. Shut your mouth and play the game. If you want to make line up decisions, retire and find a coaching job. This team can't score any less than it does now, why in that case do we want to rely on the production of a 42 year old rental? Get a first rounder for him, let the team build some chemistry with the guys who are going to be the core for the foreseeable future.

Edited by thecoffeecake, 08 February 2014 - 10:43 PM.

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#177 TheRedStorm

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 10:56 PM

How do you not see a problem with what he said there? He's blowing on the fire with quotes like that. Shut your mouth and play the game. If you want to make line up decisions, retire and find a coaching job. This team can't score any less than it does now, why in that case do we want to rely on the production of a 42 year old rental? Get a first rounder for him, let the team build some chemistry with the guys who are going to be the core for the foreseeable future.

 

Without that 42 year old rental's production, they'd be the Buffalo Sabres.


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#178 NJDevs4978

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 11:02 PM

Oh course when Pete tries to imitate Roy and pull the goalie with two minutes left he does it with Ovechkin/Backstrom on the ice as opposed to Gionta/Bernier.  


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#179 devlman

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 11:36 PM

Well thank god the savior Matteau is awaiting and not a top 10 pick this draft!! Lou has lost the plot. These new soulless owners need to one thing right and fire Lou.
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#180 maxpower

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 01:34 AM

Who cares what the room thinks, the room is not long-lived, half these guys are on their way out or on short-term deals, and when there is a new coach, the deck will be reshuffled.


Edited by maxpower, 09 February 2014 - 01:34 AM.

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