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#101 Mike Brown

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:57 AM

This team needs future prospects. Do you guys want to be in this perpetual state of mediocre play and talent for the next decade?

We can pretend this team has a shot at making the playoffs, or we can be realistic and try and acquire some picks or prospects to fill the cupboard.

It's looking like this team is going to be 5 points back at the deadline, which is the WORST POSSIBLE SCENARIO. We shouldn't be buyers this year, seriously.

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Well right now we're not 5 points back.  There's no way of knowing for sure where we'll be come March 5.  When we get to March 5, we'll have a better idea.  But we're not there yet.  Right now, we should absolutely not be in the selling mode.  And what's this pretend stuff?  We have a REALISTIC shot at making the playoffs.

 

Another point I wanna make is that THE UNEXPECTED HAPPENS ALL THE TIME!  This Devils team can absolutely make a dent in the playoffs.  People want to believe for some reason that there's a perfect team.  There is no perfect team.  Look at the Eastern Conference.  The two best teams are Pittsburgh and Boston.  We give Pittsburgh problems.  We have had their number for the longest time.  Their fans hate playing us.  Boston, well that's another story.  But they're beatable as well.

 

But regarding the whole idea that we'll end up in a state of mediocrity for years to come, I don't buy because when was the last time we had a deep prospect pool?  And saying it'll be for the next whole decade is just an overreaction.  It's nothing but paranoia if you truly think that.  And besides right now, we have one of the best defense prospect pools in the league.  I know we need forwards, but there are lots of teams that have a weak defense prospect pool as well.  The disparity between the best / deepest prospect pools and the weakest prospect pools is actually pretty slim.  It fluctuates pretty significantly all the time.


Edited by Mike Brown, 04 February 2014 - 02:00 AM.

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#102 coldply123

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 06:53 AM

Jagr has more shots/game in January than he did in any month previous to this, and it isn't close. DeBoer is also playing him less than he was in December.


That kind of reinforces my point to a degree. Shots per game is pretty meaningless when you get a lot of PP time and throw pucks at the goal. His playing time though is an indicator Deboer sees what I see with him and his legs. Jagr going to the Olympics and the travel to and from is not going to help us to any small degree. I'm semi concerned with Elias in this regard with how banged up he's been this year.

Edited by coldply123, 04 February 2014 - 06:57 AM.

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#103 DJ Eco

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 08:26 AM

I'm generally not for us being sellers, but in the one case of Jagr, I wouldn't mind seeing him traded before the Olympic break. He's already slowing down, pretty quickly, but I'm sure his trade value's still relatively sky high among GMs who haven't noticed. I don't have too much faith he'll come back from the Olympics in good shape ready for the push.


Edited by DJ Eco, 04 February 2014 - 08:26 AM.

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#104 SterioDesign

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 08:36 AM

thank god you're not the GM, my god. who gives up when your a point out? you would be fired so fast

 

Who said im saying the team should tank or wtv? You're overreacting there. Did i say we should fvcking trade everyone or something? calm down.

 

All im saying is that we can't throw assets for a rental cause that's absolutely not worth the risk, we're already lacking depth and skills. Plus with the team we saw all year, i'd be really surprise that one guy would have a big impact.

 

We also can't simply close our eyes on the future/future holes and strictly look at those playoffs. If Lou knows he won't resign Zids for example fine, trade him then. But Lou needs to look into ways of getting picks or wtv, lets be reel here thats what we need, getting picks could make a difference for YEARS. Losing in the first round or not making it on top of throwing away assets absolutely won't help our case. 

 

I'd simply go in the playoffs with what we have now and hope for the best but we cant lose future assets at all


Edited by SterioDesign, 04 February 2014 - 08:42 AM.

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#105 Triumph

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 08:39 AM

That kind of reinforces my point to a degree. Shots per game is pretty meaningless when you get a lot of PP time and throw pucks at the goal. His playing time though is an indicator Deboer sees what I see with him and his legs. Jagr going to the Olympics and the travel to and from is not going to help us to any small degree. I'm semi concerned with Elias in this regard with how banged up he's been this year.

 

lol sure it does.  glad to see you make this point after Jagr skated circles around Colorado in the 3rd period last night.


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#106 DJ Eco

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 08:41 AM

lol sure it does.  glad to see you make this point after Jagr skated circles around Colorado in the 3rd period last night.

 

Although he's looked like he's slowing down lately, this is true, he was absolutely phenomenal late last night.


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#107 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 09:12 AM

This team needs future prospects. Do you guys want to be in this perpetual state of mediocre play and talent for the next decade?

We can pretend this team has a shot at making the playoffs, or we can be realistic and try and acquire some picks or prospects to fill the cupboard.

It's looking like this team is going to be 5 points back at the deadline, which is the WORST POSSIBLE SCENARIO. We shouldn't be buyers this year, seriously.

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The problem with this kind of thinking is that taking a step back doesn't always lead to taking steps forward.  I think sometimes it's easy to think tanking or semi-tanking will automatically mean you'll be a SC contender in 3-4 years.  Look at the Islanders and John Tavares.  He's already in his fifth season and the Islanders look like they're going to miss the playoffs for the fourth time in five seasons.  It's easy to think, when you get that high draft pick (and multiple high draft picks) and some glamour players, that good things are right around the corner, that all your stockpiled picks will somehow all become legitimate prospects, but sometimes all you have is one or two good players, and your only excitement comes from seeing them among the scoring leaders. 

 

The other problem is if you bail on this season, Schneider probably doesn't re-sign this offseason, and waits to test the market, no matter how sweet of an offer Lou throws at him.  Cory is in his prime years...I can't imagine he would want to waste 2-4 years of them on a team that's in rebuilding mode.  The Devils need to show him that they're not taking any seasons off or steps back if they want to keep him.     

 

I don't necessarily have a problem with the Devils making a deadline deal that costs them a prospect or two, as long as it's not strictly a "right now" proposition.  If they go for a proven commodity who's still got good years left, is playing well, and can help this team for the next few years as well as this one, and is already locked up, I can get behind that.  If it's a high-cost rental, no.  Low-cost rental, maybe, but it really depends where the Devils are by the deadline.  It's just too early to say. 


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 04 February 2014 - 09:13 AM.

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#108 Neb00rs

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 09:18 AM

I'd be really surprised if Lou is trying for Cammalleri as anything else than a rental. Guy has a poor personality as far as am concerned. I never really liked the guy. Great scoring instincts though.

 

Edit: If anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about (from TG): Lamoriello Eying Cammalleri?

 

While DeBoer keeps talking about the Devils needing to find a way to “generate another goal a night” general manager Lou Lamoriello continues his search for that extra goal via the trade route. Lamoriello’s quest for a left wing to play on his top line apparently has led to him expressing interest in Calgary’s Mike Cammalleri.
The 31-year-old Cammalleri returned Saturday from a concussion that had sidelined him since Jan. 11 and the Flames are seeing what they can get for the potential unrestricted free agent. The 5-foot-9 left wing is in the final season of a five-year, $30 million contract ($6 million cap hit, $7 million 2013-14 salary) and has struggled this season with just 13 goals and eight assists in 38 games.
The CBC’s Elliotte Friedman first reported the Devils’ interest in Cammalleri. Flames president Brian Burke, who is also serving as GM while searching for a replacement for the fired Jay Feaster, is seeking prospects and/or draft picks in return. 

 


Edited by Neb00rs, 04 February 2014 - 09:24 AM.

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#109 SterioDesign

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 10:13 AM

Well right now we're not 5 points back.  There's no way of knowing for sure where we'll be come March 5.  When we get to March 5, we'll have a better idea.  But we're not there yet.  Right now, we should absolutely not be in the selling mode.  And what's this pretend stuff?  We have a REALISTIC shot at making the playoffs.

 

Another point I wanna make is that THE UNEXPECTED HAPPENS ALL THE TIME!  This Devils team can absolutely make a dent in the playoffs.  People want to believe for some reason that there's a perfect team.  There is no perfect team.  Look at the Eastern Conference.  The two best teams are Pittsburgh and Boston.  We give Pittsburgh problems.  We have had their number for the longest time.  Their fans hate playing us.  Boston, well that's another story.  But they're beatable as well.

 

But regarding the whole idea that we'll end up in a state of mediocrity for years to come, I don't buy because when was the last time we had a deep prospect pool?  And saying it'll be for the next whole decade is just an overreaction.  It's nothing but paranoia if you truly think that.  And besides right now, we have one of the best defense prospect pools in the league.  I know we need forwards, but there are lots of teams that have a weak defense prospect pool as well.  The disparity between the best / deepest prospect pools and the weakest prospect pools is actually pretty slim.  It fluctuates pretty significantly all the time.

 

Yeah but we we're never this poor up front and lacking scoring. We need help NOW and there's NONE coming, it's not overreaction. If anything i think you're mentality in simply denial and to ignore the upcoming problems.

 

It's absolutely fair to be worried about our current lack of scoring + if you're looking at our prospects, nothing will help in the future. So if we want scoring we'll have to overpay for someone which is never good.


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#110 SterioDesign

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 10:15 AM

I'd be really surprised if Lou is trying for Cammalleri as anything else than a rental. Guy has a poor personality as far as am concerned. I never really liked the guy. Great scoring instincts though.

 

Edit: If anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about (from TG): Lamoriello Eying Cammalleri?

 

if we get him im gonna cry, he's absolutely not a team player and i hate him with a passion. He'll never buy into our system


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#111 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 11:01 AM

if we get him im gonna cry, he's absolutely not a team player and i hate him with a passion. He'll never buy into our system

 

That's probably the kind of guy the Devils get...a low-cost rental.  Can't see Calgary getting much for him. 


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[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#112 Devils Pride 26

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:09 PM

Sign me. Think of a mix of uncle Rico and Kenny fvckin' powers. Nobody brings more energy than I.
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#113 Devilsfan118

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:54 PM

Well right now we're not 5 points back.  There's no way of knowing for sure where we'll be come March 5.  When we get to March 5, we'll have a better idea.  But we're not there yet.  Right now, we should absolutely not be in the selling mode.  And what's this pretend stuff?  We have a REALISTIC shot at making the playoffs.


41.5% chance, according to http://www.sportsclu...ts.com/NHL.html. Pretty fascinating site. Realistic? Sure, but things have to go right for the Devils to get in. They have to actually put some wins together, and some serious scoreboard help is needed. You're a glass half-full kinda guy (clearly), but how low does that % need to drop before you lose the realistic tag? 35%? 30?
 

Another point I wanna make is that THE UNEXPECTED HAPPENS ALL THE TIME!  This Devils team can absolutely make a dent in the playoffs.  People want to believe for some reason that there's a perfect team.  There is no perfect team.  Look at the Eastern Conference.  The two best teams are Pittsburgh and Boston.  We give Pittsburgh problems.  We have had their number for the longest time.  Their fans hate playing us.  Boston, well that's another story.  But they're beatable as well.

 
Blahblahblah, yeah they could win the cup if they make the playoffs, but they could just as easily make a first round exit. You can't mortgage the future of the team because "hey, stranger things have happened!"
 

But regarding the whole idea that we'll end up in a state of mediocrity for years to come, I don't buy because when was the last time we had a deep prospect pool?  And saying it'll be for the next whole decade is just an overreaction.  It's nothing but paranoia if you truly think that.  And besides right now, we have one of the best defense prospect pools in the league.  I know we need forwards, but there are lots of teams that have a weak defense prospect pool as well.  The disparity between the best / deepest prospect pools and the weakest prospect pools is actually pretty slim.  It fluctuates pretty significantly all the time.

 
The Devil haven't had a deep prospect pool, but they've had talent at the NHL level. I'm not going to list the players of past teams but this current Devils roster lacks the same depth of previous years.

Do I need to explain the obvious here? The team's leading scorers and best players are all either approaching or over 40. They're not getting it done this year, and there's no reason to expect they'll be any better next year..they're all declining in reality.

The POINT here of this excessively negative post, is that this mentality of "oh Lou has never let the Devils be continually bad, it won't happen now" is beyond foolish. I'd rather this team retool for the next 2-3 years (especially now that we have a wealthy owner, and moving the team is no longer in discussion) and come back strong than be this perpetual bubble team.

And CR1976, yes Edmonton has certainly proven that nothing is guaranteed in a rebuild - but the Devils have proven historically (I say historically, because the past few prospects haven't panned out too well - enough Swedes Conte!) that they can develop talent well. I think with 2 or 3 young dynamite offensive prospects, this team would be set for a decade.


Edited by Devilsfan118, 04 February 2014 - 01:55 PM.

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#114 Daniel

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:32 PM


The POINT here of this excessively negative post, is that this mentality of "oh Lou has never let the Devils be continually bad, it won't happen now" is beyond foolish. I'd rather this team retool for the next 2-3 years (especially now that we have a wealthy owner, and moving the team is no longer in discussion) and come back strong than be this perpetual bubble team.

And CR1976, yes Edmonton has certainly proven that nothing is guaranteed in a rebuild - but the Devils have proven historically (I say historically, because the past few prospects haven't panned out too well - enough Swedes Conte!) that they can develop talent well. I think with 2 or 3 young dynamite offensive prospects, this team would be set for a decade.

 

 

2 or 3 dynamite offensive prospects?  If that's what you have in mind, forget a retool of 2-3 years.  It's more like 4-5 years or being pretty bad to awful, if you're lucky.  Colorado is finally there, and its rebuilding process started in 2009 when they drafted Duschene.  You could argue they're a little ahead of schedule by getting the number 1 pick last year, as opposed to having it in the two prior years.  If they don't end up with MacKinnon, their future would look so-so.  The Isles have a superstar in Tavares, someone who could still be a dynamite offensive prospect in Strome (3 years since he was drafted), some pretty solid defensemen. and they may end up rebuilding again.


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#115 dmann422

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:34 PM

It's easy to say let's take 2-3 years to rebuild but it's not exactly the best plan in reality. There are plenty of stakeholders who don't want to go through that unless it's absolutely necessary. And in this case it's clearly not.

Also, it's easy to say "let's rebuild", it's much harder to actually go about effectively executing it, and especially so if you pride yourself on winning.

You say you want two top end forward prospects, but those aren't necessarily the easiest things to find. Certainly no roster player we currently have will be able to fetch that in a trade, so a package would have to be put together involving one of the young defensemen, and in doing that your robbing peter to pay Paul- your sacrificing youth for youth.

When people say rebuild, the reality is it has to mean to tank and get a high draft pick in the 1-3 range and hope to god you don't pick the next hugh jessiman, then spend two or three years building the secondary pieces in hopes you can make a cup run, but even then you can look at teams like Vancouver and San Jose and Washington who have been very good by building around a few players but never make it all the way. Suffice it to say many fans don't want to go through that and would rather take a shot every year we have one.
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#116 MantaRay

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:46 PM

Lou is apparently interested in Cammillari for the short term.


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#117 Devilsfan118

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:56 PM

Lou is apparently interested in Cammillari for the short term.

 

This worries me, especially after reading the thread over on hfbaords.  Severson + for Cammillari seems to be the consensus..which would be absolutely nonsensical. 


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#118 SterioDesign

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 03:03 PM

41.5% chance, according to http://www.sportsclu...ts.com/NHL.html. Pretty fascinating site. Realistic? Sure, but things have to go right for the Devils to get in. They have to actually put some wins together, and some serious scoreboard help is needed. You're a glass half-full kinda guy (clearly), but how low does that % need to drop before you lose the realistic tag? 35%? 30?
 

 
Blahblahblah, yeah they could win the cup if they make the playoffs, but they could just as easily make a first round exit. You can't mortgage the future of the team because "hey, stranger things have happened!"
 

 
The Devil haven't had a deep prospect pool, but they've had talent at the NHL level. I'm not going to list the players of past teams but this current Devils roster lacks the same depth of previous years.

Do I need to explain the obvious here? The team's leading scorers and best players are all either approaching or over 40. They're not getting it done this year, and there's no reason to expect they'll be any better next year..they're all declining in reality.

The POINT here of this excessively negative post, is that this mentality of "oh Lou has never let the Devils be continually bad, it won't happen now" is beyond foolish. I'd rather this team retool for the next 2-3 years (especially now that we have a wealthy owner, and moving the team is no longer in discussion) and come back strong than be this perpetual bubble team.

And CR1976, yes Edmonton has certainly proven that nothing is guaranteed in a rebuild - but the Devils have proven historically (I say historically, because the past few prospects haven't panned out too well - enough Swedes Conte!) that they can develop talent well. I think with 2 or 3 young dynamite offensive prospects, this team would be set for a decade.

 

Excellent post reflecting exactly what im thinking.

 

The mentality we're arguing here feels exactly like seeing one of your buddy gambling almost ALL his money or buying lottery tickets... "if i don't buy any ticket or put money in slot machines i won't ever win the lottery" well yeah of course, if you can afford it and have no important bills coming in the future, go nuts and spend away.

 

But if you're already struggling paying your bills and have lots of debt pilling up and you're on the verge of losing some extra incomes (which could be metaphoric in Jagr, elias etc etc) Well be fvcking smart and keep your money and stop eying lottery money for awhile cause you're gonna need that money youre throwing away IF you don't win the lottery... and lets say my chance of winning the lottery this year is just has good as NJ winning the cup lets face it.


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#119 dmann422

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 03:16 PM

This worries me, especially after reading the thread over on hfbaords. Severson + for Cammillari seems to be the consensus..which would be absolutely nonsensical.

the hfboards trade forum is a cesspool for the most inane hockey fans in the world. Only the lowest if the low and dumbest of the dumb post there, including devils fans (apologies if anyone here posts there) never take anything said there seriously or as any sort of realistic indication if a players value or potential destination.

I will be surprised if Lou gives up any decent prospect for camilleri- he's not very good and not an improvement on what we have. There would have to be a roster forward going back.
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#120 dmann422

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 03:37 PM

Excellent post reflecting exactly what im thinking.

The mentality we're arguing here feels exactly like seeing one of your buddy gambling almost ALL his money or buying lottery tickets... "if i don't buy any ticket or put money in slot machines i won't ever win the lottery" well yeah of course, if you can afford it and have no important bills coming in the future, go nuts and spend away.

But if you're already struggling paying your bills and have lots of debt pilling up and you're on the verge of losing some extra incomes (which could be metaphoric in Jagr, elias etc etc) Well be fvcking smart and keep your money and stop eying lottery money for awhile cause you're gonna need that money youre throwing away IF you don't win the lottery... and lets say my chance of winning the lottery this year is just has good as NJ winning the cup lets face it.

lol you act as if rebuilding is a sure thing while going for it now while we're a ~45% to make the playoffs is a big gamble.
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