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Official 2014 New York Mets Thread


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#741 '7'

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 02:24 PM

Yea, same losses in the same stadium in the same way to the same teams. Year after year. Sandy is partially to blame since he is so inactive and disengaged, the wilpons dont give him much to spend but a lot of what he does get gets spent poorly.
It's bad enough we have 1 turner field that we have to turn Marlins Park into another

Keep the petitions coming a$$holes
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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
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#742 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 02:55 PM

Mets about to be swept by the Marlins.

I'm just becoming apathetic to their awful play now. Season will continue to hit the dumps but hey, this is what happens when you put together a sh!t team. I hope we lose 90 games and Sandy gets kicked out on his ass.

 

Yeah, Sandy is pretty friggin' worthless.  I think he pretty much wants to be kicked out on his ass at this point. 

 

fvck the Wilpons. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#743 '7'

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:23 PM

Marlins now have 7 walk off wins against the mets in their last 22 games at home against us. I'm sure that's some sort of record

 

Mets are now 4-12 at Marlins Park in our last 16, which is astounding considering how bad Florida has been of late


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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
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#744 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:59 PM

Small positive time:

 

David Wright is on a 6-game hitting streak (10-for-26), hitting .385.  4 doubles too. 

 

Check out his projection numbers and they're baffling to look at.  Some of them are pretty bad.    

 

Just hope he starts hitting some home runs soon...it's insane that he only has one to this point. 


  • 0
THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#745 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 06:29 AM

Great article by Mike Vaccaro on the state of the Mets:

 

http://nypost.com/20...-cupboard-bare/

 

Basically shreds the payroll ($86 million) and the front-office decision-makers.  And the stupidity behind the letters of course.   


  • 0
THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#746 nmigliore

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 07:00 AM

Quintanilla was DFA'd, Flores coming up. 

 

Bet the SS job will be his shortly. It will probably be a disaster -- he hasn't shown anything in the Majors, granted it's a really small sample, and with Murphy will form one of the worst defensive middle-infield duos in the league -- but Tejada has been a complete train wreck, again. He's actually hitting worse than he did last season and is at .197/.272/.245 since the start of 2013. 

 

Thanks again Sandy!


Edited by nmigliore, 08 May 2014 - 07:09 AM.

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LETS GO METS
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"Take all that clubhouse [expletive] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [expletive] for years. Chemistry don't mean [expletive]."

- Jim Leyland

#747 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 07:43 AM

nmig, here is the "good news" (as good as it can be under the circumstances):

 

Tejada, Quintanilla, and Flores should be 100% out of the picture by 2015.  Tejada is predictably playing himself out of NY...yes, last season should've accomplished that, but even a zilch like Sandy can see that he can't be on the team next season.  Quintanilla is what he is. 

 

The one positive about Flores coming up is that he should put to rest that he's some "ace in the hole", re:  the SS position.  He will be a disaster in the field and that will be that.  My guess is he'll be a throw-in in an offseason deal.

 

Mets should have a new SS in 2015...hopefully, he's not a bargain-bin stopgap (but I wouldn't be surprised if he was). 

 

 

Tough one for deGrom yesterday:  5 HP, 10 H, 4 ER, 1 K. 

 

Numbers in his last four:  20.1 IP, 29 H (ouch), 10 ER, 6 BB, 14 K. 

 

I try not to go too crazy re:  PLC numbers...as we know, both pitching and hitting numbers get bloated there, which is why I don't like the idea of pitching prospects (and deGrom is just starting to get a little long in the tooth, as far as being a prospect goes) staying in Vegas for too long. 

 

deGrom gave up hits in Binghamton too, so it's not like he's ever really been great in that regard.  Since the beginning of 2013, his minor league numbers:  186 IP, 207 H, 56 BB, 149 K, 1.41 WHIP.  I know he's a prospect, and the sooner he gets out of Vegas and is pitching for the Mets, the better, but he's probably not going to be anything terribly special.  If he becomes a nice bullpen guy, I'd happily take it.   


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 08 May 2014 - 08:36 AM.

  • 0
THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#748 '7'

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 11:06 AM

Yea the D at short will likely be pretty bad...but hey at least with Flores it won't be like having two pitchers in the lineup (btw...can our pitchers get like A HIT? I mean even by accident?)

 

Flores at least has some pop. If he can come here and deliver .250 (heck even .240) with the occasional double and home run then he will smash Tejada's production


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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
Posted Image Posted Image

#749 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 11:46 AM

Yea the D at short will likely be pretty bad...but hey at least with Flores it won't be like having two pitchers in the lineup (btw...can our pitchers get like A HIT? I mean even by accident?)

 

Flores at least has some pop. If he can come here and deliver .250 (heck even .240) with the occasional double and home run then he will smash Tejada's production

 

Flores needs to be a top offensive SS to be in the lineup, and even that probably isn't enough.  He can't play the position...it's not that he's a bad SS, it's that he's not a SS, period.  It's sad, but within a week or two we're going to be screaming for a Quintanilla-type, a guy who at least can give you some level of defense at the position.  Having a SS who can't field on a team that needs to keep runs down to win is a recipe for disaster. 

 

Flores isn't anything close to a real solution...he's just a different problem than what we've seen to date.     


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 08 May 2014 - 11:46 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#750 nmigliore

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 01:00 PM

Mets have some groundball starters that will suffer with Flores/Murphy up the middle: Wheeler, Mejia, Niese. All of these guys have a groundball percentage between 45% and 52% this season. Even Gee is at 42% himself (and 45% career). Colon is the closest thing to a flyball-pitcher in this rotation. 


Edited by nmigliore, 08 May 2014 - 01:00 PM.

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LETS GO METS
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"Take all that clubhouse [expletive] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [expletive] for years. Chemistry don't mean [expletive]."

- Jim Leyland

#751 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 01:08 PM

Mets have some groundball starters that will suffer with Flores/Murphy up the middle: Wheeler, Mejia, Niese. All of these guys have a groundball percentage between 45% and 52% this season. Even Gee is at 42% himself (and 45% career). Colon is the closest thing to a flyball-pitcher in this rotation. 

 

Flores couldn't be more of a square peg in a round hole.  Great, he can tear up Vegas.  A lot of hitters do that.


  • 0
THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#752 '7'

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 06:24 PM

I guess it just shows how disastrous this teams finances are. Stephen Drew...problem solved for this year and next. But they can't do that. Instead they're going through all these machinations to try and find some sort of Band-Aid for short.

 

Our payroll is what? 24th in baseball? 25th? It's a small market team. We can't buy fixes, and if we can't grow a solution on the farm then you just have to jerry rig it

 

Plus Granderson looks like he may not have much left as a major league hitter, meanwhile Nelson Cruz and Jose Abreu are tearing things up. They really screwed things up this offseason. Very badly.

 

I also hope we're able to get solid returns for Colon and Chris Young by the deadline. Wouldn't mind trading Gee too if we can get a nice shortstop prospect


Edited by '7', 08 May 2014 - 06:49 PM.

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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
Posted Image Posted Image

#753 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 09:53 AM

'7', Sandy is GMing like a guy who has pretty much given up and doesn't give a sh!t anymore.  I don't think he was ever really that crazy about the job to begin with, but something happened this offseason.  I'm only guessing, but I think Sandy did have some kind of Plan A, and was told at seemingly the last second that he didn't have nearly as much to spend as he thought he would.  I think he's been sulking and disinterested ever since.   

 

That being said, there are plenty of GMs out there who find ways to make do with smaller payrolls, and they don't go out and spend they money that they do have on big-time question marks like Granderson.  I swear, I think Sandy just didn't feel like expending much energy on trying to find cheaper, most cost-effective options, and just said "fvck it, he's an OF and I need one, he's available, here you go."  I don't kid myself...I think working for the Wilpons is no easy task, but at the same time, if you're mentally done, then just leave.  There's pieces in place that suggest that this team really can contend in 2015 and beyond, but it's going to take some work, and even if the Mets are partly to blame for Sandy becoming useless, that doesn't mean they have to keep him around.  The Mets GM job is still one of 30 MLB GM jobs available, and even if the owners are incompetent morons, it has been shown that you CAN put winning teams on the field.  Someone would kill for the chance to be the Met GM, especially with some of the young pitching.  The Wilpons needs to pull their heads out of their asses long enough to find out where Sandy's head is, because if he's as defeated and disinterested in the state of the Mets as he seems to be, he needs to be tossed out on his ass. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#754 nmigliore

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 10:29 AM

Mets' "plan" with Montero, per Martino: give him some relief stints in AAA, bring him to the Majors as a reliever, send him back to stretch out as a starter, recall him as a starter.

 

http://www.nydailyne...2#ixzz31ED865MH

 

Let's hope this is just a bunch of bullsh!t because it's downright fvcking moronic. 


Edited by nmigliore, 09 May 2014 - 10:30 AM.

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LETS GO METS
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"Take all that clubhouse [expletive] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [expletive] for years. Chemistry don't mean [expletive]."

- Jim Leyland

#755 NJDevs4978

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 10:46 AM

Are they really THAT desperate to 'win today'? I mean geez why not just have him start now then relieve at the end of the season when you're keeping his innings down? Not like there won't be a spot for him in the pen at that point.
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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#756 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 10:54 AM

Are they really THAT desperate to 'win today'? I mean geez why not just have him start now then relieve at the end of the season when you're keeping his innings down? Not like there won't be a spot for him in the pen at that point.

 

This is where it gets maddening.  They clearly don't have a plan.  A team that is trying to win now brings in Drew for a couple of years, doesn't have Kyle Farnsworth and Dice K in its bullpen, etc.  But yeah, don't now decide for the moment you're going to try to win now by fvcking with Montero.  That's beyond stupid (even for the Mets). 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#757 NJDevs4978

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 11:01 AM

This is where it gets maddening. They clearly don't have a plan. A team that is trying to win now brings in Drew for a couple of years, doesn't have Kyle Farnsworth and Dice K in its bullpen, etc. But yeah, don't now decide for the moment you're going to try to win now by fvcking with Montero. That's beyond stupid (even for the Mets).


They're trying to do both at the same time (develop and win now), they're ridiculously inconsistent. They prioritize Super 2 as if they're a small market and don't go after Drew but then they run all their pen arms into the ground and do stupid things like Joba'ing Montero and Mejia.
  • 0
"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#758 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 11:23 AM

At this point, I would just leave Montero alone.  Leave Mejia alone too...at least the guy is healthy and pitching every 5th day, finally.  Can't we give it at least until August or so before deciding his future with the Mets is in the bullpen?

 

And yeah, though I get the Super 2 mentality to an extent, it just reeks of a "Well, we're gonna lose him anyway, so we need that one more year".  Very small-market, and very aggravating.   


  • 0
THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#759 nmigliore

nmigliore

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 12:19 PM

Super 2 isn't even about keeping him an extra year -- that date already passed. It's a pure salary move that ensures he goes through arbitration 3 times instead of possibly 4 (and thus earning less overall money).

Edited by nmigliore, 09 May 2014 - 12:20 PM.

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LETS GO METS
LETS GO DEVILS

"Take all that clubhouse [expletive] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [expletive] for years. Chemistry don't mean [expletive]."

- Jim Leyland

#760 '7'

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 07:20 PM

Mets have left a small country on the basepaths thus far. Bases loaded twice and both times failed to get a run in


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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
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