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Official 2014 New York Mets Thread


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#1121 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 06:04 AM

Welcome back nmig!  This place is better when you are posting here. 

 

Yeah, heard about NYFS and how to behave in those forums, so I'll be careful when I post there.  I'm not off to a great start there, lol...I thought Terry should've gone after the umps a lot harder than he did after the botched rundown (the guy CLEARLY ran out of the basepaths).  It would've been one thing if there was a very close play that resulted in a missed call (that happens...you deal with it), but completely missing a rule in the rulebook is something else.  I think at that point, you have to go ballistic and basically make the umps run you from the game...no, it might not make any difference in the end-of-game result (and that wasn't my point at all when I posted that Terry needed to lose it), but at least you let the umps know they completely screwed up, and that, regardless of where your team is in the standings, that you're not just going to let something like that go.  Well, suffice it to say the game-day thread participants didn't agree with me (though they kept missing my point...for some reason they kept thinking I was saying that Terry losing his mind would've inspired the team to win). 

 

Anyway, not a great day for Colon, but the guy was due for a lesser game, and even with that, he still turned in 6 IP.  Heaven forbid his teammates pick him up after he'd been lights-out after a nice stretch.  All he has to do is pitch pretty well (and hopefully keep on racking up wins) before the deadline and he should draw some solid interest.    

 

Let's face it, the only reason the Mets were "relevant" as long as they were was because of everyone else.  They've had so many opportunities to tease...he'll, even if they were a couple of games under .500, they'd be close that I still be kind of hopeful.  But they're toast now, and in a way that's good, because now Passive can start think about moving Colon, possibly Murph, etc. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#1122 nmigliore

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 11:54 AM

Gabriel Ynoa promoted to AA, nice. His numbers in St. Lucie: 18.2 K%, 3.7 BB%, 3.38 FIP, which were nearly identical to what he did in Savannah last season (19.6 K%, 3 BB%, 3.16 FIP).

 

BA ranked him our #15 prospect entering 2014, but that always looked pretty low. I haven't seen reports on him this year but he's a bit in the Montero mold in that he's an extreme strike-throwing Dominican with pretty good stuff; a low-90's fastball with sink that runs up to 94, a plus-plus changeup (best pitch), and a slider that BA said needed improvement. He's also taller than Montero. 


Edited by nmigliore, 30 June 2014 - 11:57 AM.

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#1123 nmigliore

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 01:20 PM

Fascinating stuff here - someone leaked 10 months of internal trade talks from the Astros: http://deadspin.com/...rade-1597951970

 

Some notable Met items involved:

 

- Paul DePodesta wanted SS Jonathan Villar as a centerpiece (or only piece) for Daniel Murphy in December. (This would look freakin' laughable right now.)

- Mets turned down Lucas Harrell and Alex Sogard for Ike Davis in late February.

 

There was also a note from a conversation with John Ricco that the Mets were looking for corner OF help, a veteran starter, and a little bullpen help. Had payroll flexibility to fill those needs.


Edited by nmigliore, 30 June 2014 - 01:24 PM.

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LETS GO METS
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"Take all that clubhouse [expletive] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [expletive] for years. Chemistry don't mean [expletive]."

- Jim Leyland

#1124 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 01:44 PM

Wow...all the more reason Sandy and Co. should be shown the door.  Payroll constraints or not, they've done a bad job. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#1125 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 01:57 PM

Logan Verrett followed up one of his best games with one of his worst.  Those 132 H allowed in 94 IP are hard on the eyes.  Oh the joys of pitching in the PCL... 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#1126 '7'

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 07:06 PM

RIP Frank Cashen. Former Mets GM. Dead at 88.


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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
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#1127 '7'

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 08:35 PM

Why the hell is Wheeler starting the 7th with 104 pitches. C'mon Terry. Yea yea it was a short outing last time but you can't do this to young arms

 

 

Just asinine managing. Bethancourt singles (I suppose Lagares could've come up with it but it was a tough catch) and Shafer hits a seed to left that's caught luckily. Now he goes out to get him.


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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
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#1128 nmigliore

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 08:37 PM

Why isn't TC challenging this? Bethancourt didn't retouch 2B. Awful.

Edited by nmigliore, 30 June 2014 - 08:40 PM.

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- Jim Leyland

#1129 '7'

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 08:40 PM

Why isn't TC challenging this? Bethancourt didnt retouch 2B. Awful.

 

that has to be a challenge. And the Mets had so much time to review this as well. gotta at least take a chance. Not 100% sure it would've been overturned since there was a chance he brushed the bag. Don't they have guys in the clubhouse watching that?


Ruben Tejada stinks. Good lord. Tailor made DP and he kicks it around the infield

 

Tejada is just a dolt. Can't wait until he's off this team.


Edited by '7', 30 June 2014 - 08:41 PM.

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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
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#1130 '7'

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 09:05 PM

This team is so unclutch defensively. How the hell does Familia muff that throw. And of course Tejada can't pick it. And of course Lagares over runs it

 

how can a team be so stupid? Just an abominable performance.


Edited by '7', 30 June 2014 - 09:10 PM.

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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
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#1131 nmigliore

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 09:12 PM

What a disastrous inning. Familia did himself no favors by spiking the throw but Tejada still should've been able to handle it. Rare miscue by Lagares in center brings in the tying run. Damn.
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"Take all that clubhouse [expletive] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [expletive] for years. Chemistry don't mean [expletive]."

- Jim Leyland

#1132 nmigliore

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 09:19 PM

Campbell boots it now. Unbelievable. 3 fvcking errors in the INNING.
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LETS GO METS
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"Take all that clubhouse [expletive] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [expletive] for years. Chemistry don't mean [expletive]."

- Jim Leyland

#1133 '7'

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 09:21 PM

This is just typical Mets at Turner Field. No hope. No prayer. Everything that can go wrong does go wrong

 

so many miscues that inning.

 

I would much much rather have Turner/Q over the embarrassment that is Tejada. Tejada is one of the lowest IQ baseball players I've ever seen.


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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
Posted Image Posted Image

#1134 NJDevs4978

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 09:32 PM

lol this sounds almost as bad at that 12th inning at Dodger Stadium a few years ago where Church overran the bag trying to score and then they made a zillion errors in the bottom half.


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-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#1135 '7'

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 09:35 PM

lol this sounds almost as bad at that 12th inning at Dodger Stadium a few years ago where Church overran the bag trying to score and then they made a zillion errors in the bottom half.

 

and that seems like forever ago. And nothing has changed since. Fundamentally this team has been unsound defensively since. Absent minded on the basepaths as well

 

say what you will about Familia but he had nothing today but still did enough to get out of the inning tied (didn't help his own cause either)


Edited by '7', 30 June 2014 - 09:35 PM.

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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
Posted Image Posted Image

#1136 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 06:01 AM

Glad I'm going to Colorado from July 2-6.  I need a break from this loser franchise and its loser ownership, loser GM, loser manager and loser players. 

 

Pretty good game from Zack in that he limited the damage, but it's the same old same old...lots of pitches, and this time they resulted in walks. 

 

nmig, I know you think Zack's made progress, but it's been minimal at best.  Ks are up and his ground ball rate has improved (which may be due to luck more than anything else).  He made 17 starts last season and he's now made 17 this season.  The numbers are roughly the same:

 

http://espn.go.com/m...67/zack-wheeler

http://espn.go.com/m...13/zack-wheeler

 

One big difference is his BA against with runners on (.299) and RISP (.345).  Last season it was .208 and .173.  We all suspected that those numbers were due to good fortune last season, and as we're seeing this season, it's gone the other way.  He still throws too many pitches (highest average pitch-per-inning count in the NL I believe), and his WHIP this season (1.38) is almost identical to last season's (1.36). 

 

Long story short, whatever progress he's made has been slight (if you can even call it progress), and now that he's not getting the same luck he was getting last season, we're seeing that he's got a long way to go before we start seeing some consistency.   


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 01 July 2014 - 06:01 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#1137 nmigliore

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 06:28 AM

Here's a table of what I'm referring to in regards to his progress: http://www.fangraphs...=&players=10310

 

I'm sure you know this by now since you're familiar with how FIP works, but ERA rarely tells the whole story, and there's no reason to limit yourself to that stat or other stats that rely on luck to some degree (such as AVG, WHIP). That's why I can't look at those numbers and declare "nope, no progress."

 

K% and GB% are core pitcher skills, ones that a pitcher has a lot of control over, and ones that even stabilize quicker than any other pitcher stat in a season, so I don't think you're being very fair by saying those increases "may be due to luck more than anything else." The walks still need work, clearly, but the process is there for a pitcher whose ERA should be a lot better than what it currently is this season. Like I said yesterday, maybe with better fortune and better execution from Wheeler himself, he'll turn it around a lot quicker than people think. 


Edited by nmigliore, 01 July 2014 - 06:55 AM.

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#1138 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 06:40 AM

Here's a table of what I'm referring to in regards to his progress: http://www.fangraphs...=&players=10310

 

Why would you chalk up an increase in strikeouts and groundballs to luck? Those are core pitcher skills. That just seems like a way to dismiss the numbers because they don't agree with you. 

 

You're more or less doing the same thing...picking out two numbers in particular out of many to say "See, he really is getting better", even though we're not seeing anything appreciable that supports that, in a lot of ways.  You're dismissing a lot of other numbers that DON'T show that he's improving.   

 

If you want to make a big deal out of K% and GB rates (and yes, he's allowed less HR this season), great, but he still throws a lot of pitches, is still prone to control issues (BB% is about the same for the 2013 and 2014 samples), and is still giving up a lot of baserunners.  Don't know how you just ignore all of that, unless you're purely going on "one little thing at a time", and hoping the Ks and GB rate are the first cornerstones in the foundation for improvement.  Maybe they are...I can't say that the uptick in these numbers is a bad thing...but right now they're not translating into anything tangible...most of his other numbers are still the same (the runners-on and RISP numbers are much worse...if anything, that could be showing that he's not getting the big K when he needs it). 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#1139 nmigliore

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 07:04 AM

You're more or less doing the same thing...picking out two numbers in particular out of many to say "See, he really is getting better", even though we're not seeing anything appreciable that supports that, in a lot of ways.  You're dismissing a lot of other numbers that DON'T show that he's improving.

 

If you want to make a big deal out of K% and GB rates (and yes, he's allowed less HR this season), great, but he still throws a lot of pitches, is still prone to control issues (BB% is about the same for the 2013 and 2014 samples), and is still giving up a lot of baserunners.  Don't know how you just ignore all of that, unless you're purely going on "one little thing at a time", and hoping the Ks and GB rate are the first cornerstones in the foundation for improvement.  Maybe they are...I can't say that the uptick in these numbers is a bad thing...but right now they're not translating into anything tangible...most of his other numbers are still the same (the runners-on and RISP numbers are much worse...if anything, that could be showing that he's not getting the big K when he needs it). 

 

I'm showing numbers that strip out the luck factor and purely focus on what a pitcher controls. ERA, AVG, WHIP, etc. all have varying degrees of luck that can distort the picture. Just look back to Wheeler last season when he was pitching way over his head, or Bartolo Colon, who was a league average-ish pitcher masquerading as one of the AL's best pitchers.

 

I'm not going on one thing at a time, I just think you're just underestimating the power of those K% and GB% increases, probably because the results haven't shown yet; if you don't believe me, then look at what his FIP and xFIP say. Even with those walks, there's a pitcher in there who could be posting a sub-3.50 ERA. I'm not saying bad luck is purely to blame and Wheeler himself is blameless, to be clear, but there's a lot of room for "positive" regression there, which is why I keep saying with better luck AND with Wheeler executing better, he could turn this around quickly. If he suddenly finds the plate more (I doubt it), then he could really take-off. 


Edited by nmigliore, 01 July 2014 - 07:11 AM.

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- Jim Leyland

#1140 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 07:15 AM

This is why I'm glad you're back...seriously.  Back-and-forth spirited debate is good.  Much more fun than me posting on the progress of minor-leaguers and not getting much in the way of responses.

 

I'm still not 100% sold on FIP and xFIP, and posted why a while back (tend to minimize the "hittable" factor of some pitchers over others, defense gets too much blame for base hits, etc).  But I hope the positive regression happens for Wheeler.  I would love to see a solid and consistent second half from him that he can take with him into 2015.  He's still young though, and some guys do take a while...it wouldn't surprise me if he has roughly the same results he's had to date for the rest of this season.   


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!




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