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#141 '7'

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 12:15 PM

Rubin tweeted that Ike Davis is in a walking boot


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#142 Daniel

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 01:15 PM

I'm not saying they should sign anyone to a K-Rod deal, but there's guys out there I'm sure could help.  Yes, there's risks involved, and I was never implying they should build their entire bullpen on free agents alone.  Hopefully Vic Black (cheap young guy from within) can help.  We'll see if any of the starters currently in their system get converted. 

 

 

That's fine I suppose.  I just wouldn't expect much in the way of results, and if it does turn out well, it'll be due to luck more than anything.  The '98 Yankees didn't outbid everyone for Stanton, Nelson and Mariano.  And when the Yankees did throw big bucks at free agent relievers, they sometimes did well with guys like Soriano, but often ended up with huge duds like Farnsworth or Steve Karsay.  


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#143 nmigliore

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 02:05 PM

First cuts were made today. Nobody of shock besides Edgin, although I never really expected him to make the bullpen. He's just not good. 

 

It does seem as if the Mets will only carry one lefty in Scott Rice. Besides Rice and of course Niese, there are only two lefties in camp now: John Lannan, who doesn't profile as a LOOGY nor has ever pitched out of the bullpen, and Jack Leathersich, who walked 29 batters in 29 innings in Las Vegas last season. 

 

Edit: Make it one now, Leathersich assigned to minor league camp.


Edited by nmigliore, 10 March 2014 - 03:42 PM.

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- Jim Leyland

#144 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 06:31 AM

Rubin tweeted that Ike Davis is in a walking boot

 

He's back in NY for an MRI.  Doofus has a hamstring issue, but is supposed to be back by mid-week.  Can't make this stuff up.


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#145 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 06:38 AM

That's fine I suppose.  I just wouldn't expect much in the way of results, and if it does turn out well, it'll be due to luck more than anything.  The '98 Yankees didn't outbid everyone for Stanton, Nelson and Mariano.  And when the Yankees did throw big bucks at free agent relievers, they sometimes did well with guys like Soriano, but often ended up with huge duds like Farnsworth or Steve Karsay.  

 

Sandy decided to spend pretty big bucks on closer Frank Francisco, of all pitchers.  It went pretty badly, though the numbers from his previous two seasons showed that he should've at least been pretty good (though not a great value).   

 

Relievers definitely have a bit of a crapshoot feel to them, but so do pitchers in general.  Even sure things aren't sure things.  Sandy has been going the bottom-feeder route for a while now with relievers, hoping they exceed expectations. 


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 11 March 2014 - 06:57 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#146 '7'

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 05:55 PM

What's happening in Atlanta and Medlen should be a lesson to Harvey and the Mets. Don't rush is back. It's not worth it.


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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
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#147 nmigliore

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:59 AM

What's happening in Atlanta and Medlen should be a lesson to Harvey and the Mets. Don't rush is back. It's not worth it.

 

It's scary, but it's not like the Braves screwed up in his recovery. Medlen had TJS August 2010, returned for a couple relief outings in late September of 2011, and then pitched out of the bullpen before transitioning back to starter in the 2nd half of 2012. He threw 197 healthy innings in 2013. Him getting hurt again is just another cautionary tale of the attrition of pitchers, not necessarily a fault in the recovery process.

 

I do agree, however, that I don't want to see him rushed back. Unfortunately I can see it turning into a problem. I love the guy but Harvey clearly has a big ego and is already making "there will be Harvey Day 2014" proclamations. Sandy has basically shot it down and said it's a discussing for later in the season when he's further along in his recovery, but you can bet Harvey will be chomping at the bit to return this season.

 

Braves just signed Ervin Santana for 1 year. Not a huge surprise considering the injury to Medlen, Beachy being shut down, and Minor's iffy shoulder.


Edited by nmigliore, 12 March 2014 - 07:10 AM.

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- Jim Leyland

#148 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:08 AM

Niese couldn't get above 86 mph yesterday.  I'm starting to feel more and more strongly like the Mets should probably not have him in their long-term plans...he's too fragile and isn't overwhelmingly good when he's healthy (though he's had some nice stretches). 

 

EDIT:  Pretty good start by Lannan today:  4 IP, 3 H, 2 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 5 K.  Don't know if that's a good thing.


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 12 March 2014 - 07:02 PM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#149 '7'

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:03 PM

It's scary, but it's not like the Braves screwed up in his recovery. Medlen had TJS August 2010, returned for a couple relief outings in late September of 2011, and then pitched out of the bullpen before transitioning back to starter in the 2nd half of 2012. He threw 197 healthy innings in 2013. Him getting hurt again is just another cautionary tale of the attrition of pitchers, not necessarily a fault in the recovery process.

 

I do agree, however, that I don't want to see him rushed back. Unfortunately I can see it turning into a problem. I love the guy but Harvey clearly has a big ego and is already making "there will be Harvey Day 2014" proclamations. Sandy has basically shot it down and said it's a discussing for later in the season when he's further along in his recovery, but you can bet Harvey will be chomping at the bit to return this season.

 

Braves just signed Ervin Santana for 1 year. Not a huge surprise considering the injury to Medlen, Beachy being shut down, and Minor's iffy shoulder.

 

you're right. Pitchers are crapshoots. With Medlen though, he's so damn small...5'9, not a horse like Harvey. Gotta wonder, maybe he just doesn't generate enough power from the rest of his body and has to overthrow.

 

This kind of move irks me. Braves IMMEDIATELY fill a need with a pretty good pitcher (though yes he's had some alternating good/bad season.) Meanwhile we are pussyfooting around with Stephen Drew for months. Braves have a hole. Filled.


Edited by '7', 12 March 2014 - 10:08 PM.

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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
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#150 nmigliore

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 01:06 PM

Pretty cool article by Jeff Sullivan on Wheeler's catchers not helping him gain strikes on borderline pitches last season: http://www.fangraphs...elers-pitching/

 

There’s no question Wheeler needs to work on his command. He’s admitted as much on multiple occasions, and it’s all about mechanical consistency. Almost everything’s about mechanical consistency, and it’s a lot easier to talk about it than it is to achieve it, but Wheeler’s a work in progress. Most pitchers are. He’s young.

 

But as long as we’re going to talk about Zack Wheeler’s performance, we need to give some consideration to the context. His command could be better. His big-league receivers could’ve been better. Wheeler spent a lot of time throwing to John Buckand Anthony Recker before Travis d’Arnaud was promoted, and last year, Buck and Recker were two of the worst pitch-receivers in baseball.

 

According to Matthew Carruth’s data, Recker was worth 1.5 strikes below average per game with the Mets. Buck was worth 1.7 strikes below average per game with the Mets. Only a small number of catchers were worse, and that allowed d’Arnaud to look like a massive improvement even though he was right on the mean.

 

I recommend reading the full thing, there's some good stuff in there, including a list of some pitchers who were very comparable to Wheeler at his age. 

 

The pitcher framing data he's referring is from StatCorner, which ranked Buck as the worst pitch framer in 2013 in terms of runs below average. On a per game basis, among catchers who caught at least 1,500 pitches, Buck ranked 6th worst while Recker ranked 9th worst. 

 

Buck is gone and in his place is d'Arnaud, who was an impressive pitch framer when he came up, by both the eye test and numbers. Recker is still here, obviously, but he's just a backup who should see no more than 50 or so games, health-willing. 

 

If Wheeler's control improves next season, part of it may be his doing, but a significant part may simply be due to the fact he has a much better receiver working with him. 


Edited by nmigliore, 13 March 2014 - 01:12 PM.

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- Jim Leyland

#151 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 01:22 PM

nmig, did you ever see Bob Boone (Aaron Boone's and Bret Boone's dad...Bob's dad was also a major league 3rd baseman)?  He was probably one of the best defensive catchers in MLB history (not a terribly good hitter, but not too bad for a catcher).  He was known for being one of the best framers ever...there's some video of him stealing strikes that are pretty unbelievable.   


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#152 nmigliore

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 01:31 PM

nmig, did you ever see Bob Boone (Aaron Boone's and Bret Boone's dad...Bob's dad was also a major league 3rd baseman)?  He was probably one of the best defensive catchers in MLB history (not a terribly good hitter, but not too bad for a catcher).  He was known for being one of the best framers ever...there's some video of him stealing strikes that are pretty unbelievable.   

 

I have not. But this got me thinking of how Baseball Prospectus, during the season, posts a series that highlights the best and worst catcher frame footage, in the form of .gifs, for each week. It's pretty cool to see - much like you say about Boone, Jose Molina's ability to steal strikes is incredible to watch. The measurements are pretty precise too, as they use PitchFX to measure the distance the pitch was from the strikezone (in other words, they can measure which framed strike was the most outside of the zone, which framed ball was most inside, etc.). 

 

I have to see if I can find some Boone footage though.

 

Edit: Here is an example from late last season of the Baseball Prospectus series I was talking about above: http://www.baseballp...articleid=21855

 

Jose Molina and Jonathan Lucroy even have their own sections because of how great they are at it.  :lol:

 

Molina3.gif

 

Check out who is #1 for the best pitch frame of that week, too. 

 

Ben Lindbergh, the author of that series, has offered high praise for d'Arnaud as well:

 

D'Arnaud is a different story. Not only has he caught, but his receiving skills have already received some serious praisefrom his pitchers. Matt Harvey went so far as to suggest that d'Arnaud has Molina-like qualities, and d'Arnaud himself revealed that he emulates Russell Martin's ability to make the low strike look good (something we've heard Martindescribe). That jibes with what Jason Cole told me this spring: that a pitcher friend of his had raved about d'Arnaud having the strongest wrists he'd seen, enabling him to throw sinkers below the zone for strikes throughout the game. According to Max's method, he was two runs better than average in a combined 26 games between Double-A and Triple-A this season.

After his start against Atlanta on Tuesday, Mets starter Zack Wheeler said, "When the balls are down, he does something that makes them look like they're strikes. It's ridiculous. I had a couple that I threw and I knew they were balls, but they looked like strikes after he framed them up." This is what he was talking about: the lowest strike d'Arnaud has received so far.
 
...
 
D'Arnaud is quick to bring the ball back into the strike zone, but he doesn't disguise that movement quite as well asJonathan Lucroy (for comparison's sake, check out the third Lucroy GIF below). The snap back is slightly exaggerated, which is something an umpire could pick up on, but the body is still. We'll see what the stats say over a larger sample, but according to Brandon McCarthy, pitchers can get a good feel for a catcher's receiving skills quickly. And d'Arnaud's batterymates are already big believers.

 

 


Edited by nmigliore, 13 March 2014 - 01:43 PM.

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- Jim Leyland

#153 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 01:52 PM

Good to know that d'Arnaud brings some important skills to the table in case his bat takes time to develop. 

 

I could be wrong but I kind of remember Posada not being very good in this regard...he used to drop a lot of balls that were right in his mitt...I remember thinking "for a guy who's a CATCHER, he seems to have trouble actually catching".

 

And of course, there was the time poor Geno Petralli had to catch knuckleballer Charlie Hough...7 passed balls in one game. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#154 Daniel

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 02:03 PM

Good to know that d'Arnaud brings some important skills to the table in case his bat takes time to develop. 

 

I could be wrong but I kind of remember Posada not being very good in this regard...he used to drop a lot of balls that were right in his mitt...I remember thinking "for a guy who's a CATCHER, he seems to have trouble actually catching".

 

And of course, there was the time poor Geno Petralli had to catch knuckleballer Charlie Hough...7 passed balls in one game. 

 

It took Posada a bit of time to fully develop.  I remember in what was maybe his second or third year in big leagues, there was one game where I could swear Maddux struck out Posado something like three times in a row on maybe 12 total pitches.  Maddux was obviously at the top of his game at that point, but I can't recall a hitter looking so absolutely clueless in an at bat. 

 

If it were late 80s/early 90s George running the show at that time, Posada would have been traded for Rob Deer.  Either that, or Stick Michael would have had to trick George into saying there was no deal to be made, kind of like what he's reported to have done with Bernie. 


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How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#155 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 02:10 PM

I was more referring to his catching...I just remember him dropping more strikes and other very catchable pitches that is normal for a catcher.


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#156 Daniel

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 02:20 PM

I was more referring to his catching...I just remember him dropping more strikes and other very catchable pitches that is normal for a catcher.

 

Even in his prime, he was never considered a great defensive catcher, which probably had something to do with a tendency to drop balls, but I can't remember anything like that specifically.  He wasn't Piazza bad, but it seems something like below average. 


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Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#157 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 06:30 AM

Even in his prime, he was never considered a great defensive catcher, which probably had something to do with a tendency to drop balls, but I can't remember anything like that specifically.  He wasn't Piazza bad, but it seems something like below average. 

 

Piazza was a lot better defensively than people think.  He couldn't throw base-stealers out and had terrible footwork in that regard (and it got worse as he got older), but otherwise he was actually pretty good. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#158 nmigliore

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 12:59 PM

Niese leaves after 2 innings. Super.

Here we go again..

Edited by nmigliore, 16 March 2014 - 12:59 PM.

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LETS GO METS
LETS GO DEVILS

"Take all that clubhouse [expletive] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [expletive] for years. Chemistry don't mean [expletive]."

- Jim Leyland

#159 nmigliore

nmigliore

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 01:23 PM

Left elbow discomfort for Niese.

Ugh.....
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LETS GO METS
LETS GO DEVILS

"Take all that clubhouse [expletive] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [expletive] for years. Chemistry don't mean [expletive]."

- Jim Leyland

#160 '7'

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 05:40 PM

Niese will not be ready for opening day. Best case scenario he misses a month. Worst case he's out for the year with some elbow surgery.

 

Now we might be left with Lannan/Matsuzaka for far too long. This is utterly unacceptable. Is Jason Marques out there? Somewhere?


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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
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