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Two Interesting Articles on Deboer


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#21 Mike Brown

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 05:10 AM

They hit what, four posts? PDB can't do much about that. "Hey Zubrus shoot inside the frame!" ?

 

This was their 36th 1-goal game. They have 22 1-goal loss or SO/OT loss. If you play that many close games you will also blow a lot of leads.

 

 

But we've surrendered 5 leads this year when the other team pulled their goalie late in the game.  5 times!  2 of those games we won.  If we finish those 5 games off in regulation, not only do the Habs and Rags each have fewer points than they currently have, but we have 3 more points and are at worst tied for a playoff spot.

 

People can point to the shootout failures as why we're not in the playoffs, but those 5 games imo is more damning.


Edited by Mike Brown, 04 February 2014 - 05:11 AM.

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#22 coldply123

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 06:00 AM

I don't see Deboer back after this year unless he miraculously gets this team a playoff spot and perhaps a series win. Coaches don't stay around anymore for more than a few yrs . The Babcock types are rare and even he might be on the hot seat soon in Detroit in the next yr or so.

Deboer is such a bad fit for where the Devils need to go and what they need for getting their younger talent coached up and acclimated.

Edited by coldply123, 04 February 2014 - 06:01 AM.

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#23 Elias26

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 07:17 AM

I think in many cases the head coach isn't your friend IMO that's the job of the assistant coaches.  That being said I think it's time to let PDB go.


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#24 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 07:37 AM

I think in many cases the head coach isn't your friend IMO that's the job of the assistant coaches.  That being said I think it's time to let PDB go.

 

The last two nights sucked, but at the same time, it's really hard to put them entirely on PDB:

 

Against the Preds, Jagr does exactly what you'd want him to, Preds get an incredibly fortunate bounce.

Against the Avs...three friggin' posts.  Team on ice unfortunately gets caught and gassed at the worst possible time.    

 

I'm not sure what a new coach can do with what he has to work with.  It feels like it will be change for change's sake.  Does the next coach get the guys who don't score for 10 games or more at a time to start scoring more consistently?       


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#25 Marshall

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 09:57 AM

But we've surrendered 5 leads this year when the other team pulled their goalie late in the game.  5 times!  2 of those games we won.  If we finish those 5 games off in regulation, not only do the Habs and Rags each have fewer points than they currently have, but we have 3 more points and are at worst tied for a playoff spot.

 

People can point to the shootout failures as why we're not in the playoffs, but those 5 games imo is more damning.

 

And how many times have the opposition pulled the goalie? You can't just throw out "given up goals" without context. The success ratio is something like 30% when pulling the goalie. 


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#26 devilsrule33

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 10:42 AM

The last two nights sucked, but at the same time, it's really hard to put them entirely on PDB:

 

Against the Preds, Jagr does exactly what you'd want him to, Preds get an incredibly fortunate bounce.

Against the Avs...three friggin' posts.  Team on ice unfortunately gets caught and gassed at the worst possible time.    

 

I'm not sure what a new coach can do with what he has to work with.  It feels like it will be change for change's sake.  Does the next coach get the guys who don't score for 10 games or more at a time to start scoring more consistently?       

 

It's the mentality that Lou started being carried over to the fans. He made some interesting switches (some worked, some failed), so everyone thinks Pete has to be fired if Robinson got canned the following season after being one game away from back-to-back Finals (how crazy is that). But for the past two years, this team has never played poorly for an extended stretch. They have not been embarrassed at all. They got bad goaltending and have struggled to score. How do you blame that on a coach? This year the PP has been good. The PK has been good. The team system continues to be strong.

 

Maybe Pete doesn't trust young players so much, but this is a veteran team, so that is only going to be an issue for a small few. And if Lou wanted those young guys to play, he easily has the power to make it happen.

 

If Deboer gets canned, he would have a job in 15 seconds around the league. Why? He took a team to the Stanley Cup Finals in his 1st year. They proceeded to lose their two best players and other 20+ goal scorers and continue to play damn well. After each game (win or lose), every coach and GM is saying, "damn that team is hard to play against. They play a great system game, and they take away a ton of what we do well. Shame he lost two of the top 25 forwards in the game."


Edited by devilsrule33, 04 February 2014 - 11:56 AM.

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#27 EdgeControl

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 10:43 AM

pete got caught with a bad matchup on the ice in crunch time. his energy guys got pinned and  failed. there absolutely is "some" culpability on him. but the biggest reason we lost was not capitalizing on our chances. we wasted a nice effort against a 77 point team. if this keeps happening my support deboer will just turn to apathy and I will care less if hes canned.  his fault or not.


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#28 SterioDesign

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 10:46 AM

Colorado outshot NJ 9-8 in the third.

 

In Dallas, NJ outshot Dallas 8-6.

 

In Nashville, NJ outshot Nashville 8-7.

 

Breaking even on the shot board while trailing is really hard and yet NJ did it 3 straight nights - just couldn't get the insurance goal in either game.

 

OUTSHOT by 1 or 2 shots lol hahaha for the love or god Tri. Do you even realize how silly it sound to say that you OUTSHOT someone simply cause you have 1 or 2 more shots in a period? That shot could be a weak wrister from the blue line just to get a faceoff in the offensive zone.

 

i wouldnt say my team outshot the other team other than if it was by a wide margin, PP and PK during the game is also something to look at when you make statement like that


Edited by SterioDesign, 04 February 2014 - 10:52 AM.

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#29 redruM

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 11:28 AM

I have been a big supporter of PDB, but the love affair w/ these veterans w/ no upside is getting old. I know Gelinas has been awful defensively, but the PP was awful without a real shooter at the point.  And Harold instead of Larsson is just MORONIC!!!


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#30 msweet

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 11:38 AM

Colorado outshot NJ 9-8 in the third.

 

In Dallas, NJ outshot Dallas 8-6.

 

In Nashville, NJ outshot Nashville 8-7.

 

Breaking even on the shot board while trailing is really hard and yet NJ did it 3 straight nights - just couldn't get the insurance goal in either game.

 

This!

 

NJ played as well as you can vs Colorado.

You win 8/10 games like that...But you lose 2/10.

 

Hockey has a large luck component and that's the way it goes.


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#31 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 11:51 AM

It's the mentality that Lou started being carried over to the fans. He made some interesting switches (some worked, some failed), so everyone thinks Pete has to be fired if Robinson got canned the following season after being one game away from back-to-back Finals (how crazy is that). But for the past two years, this team has never played poorly for an extended stretch. They have not been embarrassed at all. They got bad goaltending and have struggled to score. How do you blame that on a coach? This year the PP has been good. The PK has been good. The team system continues to be strong.

 

Maybe Pete doesn't trust young players so much, but this is a veteran team, so that is only going to be an issue for a small few. And if Lou wanted those young guys to play, he easily has the power to make it happen.

 

If Deboer gets canned, he would have a job in 15 seconds around the league. Why? He took a team to the Stanley Cup Finals in his 1st year. They proceeded to lose their two best players and other 20+ goal scorers and continue to play damn well. After each game (win or lose), every coach and GM is saying, "damn that team is hard to play against. They play a great system game, and they take away a ton of what we do well. Shame he lost all two of the top 25 forwards in the game."

 

That's the main reason I could see something happening...only because you never really know with Lou. 

 

The main question is does Lou think this team is or isn't performing to its capacity?  I'm not sure how much of an argument can be made that the team is underachieving.  The coach seems to put them in a position to win a lot (even moreso now that they're not getting near replacement-level goaltending on a near-nightly basis, the way they were last season), but there's just too many guys who don't or can't find ways to put pucks in the net. 

 

 

OUTSHOT by 1 or 2 shots lol hahaha for the love or god Tri. Do you even realize how silly it sound to say that you OUTSHOT someone simply cause you have 1 or 2 more shots in a period? That shot could be a weak wrister from the blue line just to get a faceoff in the offensive zone.

 

i wouldnt say my team outshot the other team other than if it was by a wide margin, PP and PK during the game is also something to look at when you make statement like that

 

You're not looking at this right SD...teams trailing in the 3rd tend to outshoot their opponents, as they start shooting from all angles, try everything to get pucks on net, take more risks, etc.  The fact that these trailing teams are having trouble getting much in the quantity of good scoring chances when they were trying that much harder to get them IS a good sign...especially against a good team like Colorado, who needed to both pull their goalie AND have a gassed Devils team on the ice to score.

 

That being said, you can only get by on doing good things for so long when they don't produce needed results.  The Devils need to start finding ways to stop being an endlessly "unlucky" almost team, and start finding ways to win these games they seem to win everywhere but on the scoreboard.   


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#32 dmann422

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 11:55 AM

I believe the stat on nbcsn last night was that the devils are 14-0-3 when leading going into the 3rd. So now we are 14-0-4. (I might have the win total wrong but we don't have a regulation loss).

It's unfortunate that we gave up late goals the past 3 games but holding leads hasn't really been a problem, it's just that when you do blow one it hurts badly and gets magnified because fans think it's a point we should have had.
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#33 Marshall

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:28 PM

I believe the stat on nbcsn last night was that the devils are 14-0-3 when leading going into the 3rd. So now we are 14-0-4. (I might have the win total wrong but we don't have a regulation loss).

It's unfortunate that we gave up late goals the past 3 games but holding leads hasn't really been a problem, it's just that when you do blow one it hurts badly and gets magnified because fans think it's a point we should have had.

 

15-0-4. Still, that percentage leaves them only 19th in the league in that department.


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#34 SterioDesign

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:31 PM

That's the main reason I could see something happening...only because you never really know with Lou. 

 

The main question is does Lou think this team is or isn't performing to its capacity?  I'm not sure how much of an argument can be made that the team is underachieving.  The coach seems to put them in a position to win a lot (even moreso now that they're not getting near replacement-level goaltending on a near-nightly basis, the way they were last season), but there's just too many guys who don't or can't find ways to put pucks in the net. 

 

 

 

You're not looking at this right SD...teams trailing in the 3rd tend to outshoot their opponents, as they start shooting from all angles, try everything to get pucks on net, take more risks, etc.  The fact that these trailing teams are having trouble getting much in the quantity of good scoring chances when they were trying that much harder to get them IS a good sign...especially against a good team like Colorado, who needed to both pull their goalie AND have a gassed Devils team on the ice to score.

 

That being said, you can only get by on doing good things for so long when they don't produce needed results.  The Devils need to start finding ways to stop being an endlessly "unlucky" almost team, and start finding ways to win these games they seem to win everywhere but on the scoreboard.   

 

What I mean is that, we can look at stats all we want, we don't have the skills to "support" those shots. I guess im not sure how to put this clearly but we're lacking scoring for a reason, cause we don't have much scorers. So you can't look at any % of what our team is doing in term of shots and compare it to another team when its lets say sharp, Toews, Kane, Hossa, Keith etc etc taking those shots.

 

i guess you can quantify somehow scoring % on the amount of shots a player takes that goes in and all but still, it's all about positioning, where and when you take the shots etc etc that all goes into play most of the time.

 

im so absolutely sick of us looking at stats saying we're all fine and that our numbers should be better because of this and this stat and that we're simply unlucky. 


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#35 Marshall

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:35 PM

What I mean is that, we can look at stats all we want, we don't have the skills to "support" those shots. I guess im not sure how to put this clearly but we're lacking scoring for a reason, cause we don't have much scorers. So you can't look at any % of what our team is doing in term of shots and compare it to another team when its lets say sharp, Toews, Kane, Hossa, Keith etc etc taking those shots.

 

i guess you can quantify somehow scoring % on the amount of shots a player takes that goes in and all but still, it's all about positioning, where and when you take the shots etc etc that all goes into play most of the time.

 

im so absolutely sick of us looking at stats saying we're all fine and that our numbers should be better because of this and this stat and that we're simply unlucky. 

 

The Devils aren't particularily unlucky - the problem is they don't shoot enough.

 

Plus it's funny that the players you used as examples shoot a lot. Figures.


Edited by Marshall, 04 February 2014 - 12:36 PM.

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#36 SterioDesign

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:53 PM

The Devils aren't particularily unlucky - the problem is they don't shoot enough.

 

Plus it's funny that the players you used as examples shoot a lot. Figures.

 

you completely understood what i mean come on now dont nitpick.

 

lets put it this way. You somehow have to get bitchslaped 20 times by one of 2 groups. A group a 8 years old girls or by a group of UFC fighters. Who do you pick?

 

Our shooting "quality" is "8 years old girls worthy" really. We're among the worst scoring team in the league, there's no other reasons for that than we're lacking scoring skills and us outshooting another team by 10 shots isnt compensating either from that lack.

 

it goes both ways, there's also a reason we made it to the finals 2 years ago, we had 3 30 goals scorers and a few 20+ goals scorers.


Edited by SterioDesign, 04 February 2014 - 01:05 PM.

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#37 Neb00rs

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:12 PM

Found these over at HF Boards:

 

DeBoer, The Tyrant And Locker Room Terror Nobody Sees

 

Florida Panthers Fire Head Coach Peter DeBoer After 2010-2011 Season

 

The first talks about how he treats young players.  One of my biggest complaints is how he continues to bury the young guys in favor of the old vets.  

 

The second talks about his firing from the Panthers.  Ironically they had enough with his constant line juggling and inability to hold leads.

 

First of all, the Panthers thing is old news. We have known about the rumors on why the Panthers fired him and his disagreements with the player for years. Then we knocked the Panthers out of the playoffs. That story was over. But when things aren't going so smoothly for the Devils, some people love to all of a sudden remember all that ancient history and act like it's breaking news again.

 

The first article is especially egregious. It's a sensational headline, and the story feeds off negativity to make it seem like the walls of the Prudential Center are caving in.

 

I am not one of the jerks on here that attacks someone for being a poor fan because they vent about the team and believe we are screwed - those are almost always legitimate opinions. However, when it comes to sill sh!t like this, I just can't stand for it.


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#38 devilsrule33

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:14 PM

you completely understood what i mean come on now dont nitpick.

 

lets put it this way. You somehow have to get bitchslaped 20 times by one of 2 groups. A group a 8 years old girls or by a group of UFC fighters. Who do you pick?

 

Our shooting "quality" is "8 years old girls worthy" really. We're among the worst scoring team in the league, there's no other reasons for that than we're lacking scoring skills and us outshooting another team by 10 shots isnt compensating either from that lack.

 

it goes both ways, there's also a reason we made it to the finals 2 years ago, we had 3 30 goals scorers and a few 20+ goals scorers.

 

Top players get a ton of shots. That is why they score. This was just discussed today on twitter as so many people were going on about how good Kessel's shot is. He is secnd in the league in goals with the 2nd most shots.

 

And a smart individual pointed out:

 

 Retweeted by James Mirtle

Kessel is a great example of why shot quantity is so important: even w/ his skill he still only shoots ~1% better than avg for a forward.

 

 

 

 


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#39 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:14 PM

What I mean is that, we can look at stats all we want, we don't have the skills to "support" those shots. I guess im not sure how to put this clearly but we're lacking scoring for a reason, cause we don't have much scorers. So you can't look at any % of what our team is doing in term of shots and compare it to another team when its lets say sharp, Toews, Kane, Hossa, Keith etc etc taking those shots.

 

i guess you can quantify somehow scoring % on the amount of shots a player takes that goes in and all but still, it's all about positioning, where and when you take the shots etc etc that all goes into play most of the time.

 

im so absolutely sick of us looking at stats saying we're all fine and that our numbers should be better because of this and this stat and that we're simply unlucky. 

 

Both you and Triumph/CR1976 have valid points. The fact that the Devils are putting on more shots than the opposition when leading is a great sign from  team play stand point. They are playing hard, counter attacking and creating shots when leading. However, as you said, the problem is that the players putting those shots on net just can't score for the life of them right now. It will take a while for the Devils to have shot producing players of the caliber you listed at forward. However, Gelinas/Merrill/Severson will definitely help bring some offense from the blueline in the coming years.

 

The issue with this team is that it isn't just a "fire the coach" or "fire the GM" or "start Cory" away from success. They have great goaltending most games now, they have solid defense that limits shots most nights, but they also have a middle of the road forward roster on paper that is underachieving in actuality. Looking at the roster the team should be a few points better than they are, and unfortunately those few points may very well cost them. But I don't think anyone looked at that roster in August and saw a regular season power house either.


Edited by Devil Dan 56, 04 February 2014 - 01:16 PM.

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#40 vadvlfan

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:17 PM

PDB is not the problem with this team. It's lack of skilled fw's. When a 41 yr. old is your highest scorer.  This is not a bad team. We don't get blown out by anyone! We're IN every game & players are well prepared.  If he has to go it's one thing but I don't see therein/Hitchcock,trotz etc going to put a crapload of goals on the board.  DB has a menza menz team! You can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh>t


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