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#141 Marshall

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 03:51 PM

Yes but most also sign some good ones too.  

 

I can promise you most GMs do not sign some good ones too, because they don't last that long. 


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#142 Lateralous

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 03:52 PM

 

 

Lou has not made a completely off the radar pick since Adrian Foster.   

 

 

Trading down for Corrente when Berglund was available at pick 25?   For all the Swede's we've drafted in the last 10 years, I can't believe we passed on him given that we needed another C.  I was so mad the night of the draft, especially when Versus then cut off the broadcast before we even made that 30th pick.  


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#143 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 03:54 PM

but at that time Lou had a reputation for finding diamonds in the rough while other teams ended up with the Igor Pohanka's of the world. Seems like Lou should've pulled a Tyutin or Cammaleri out of that round.

 

Nothing short of psychic powers gives anyone the ability to "should" get a diamond in the rough. A diamond in the rough is a risk that pays off. A risk that doesn't is a bust.

 

Half of the reason Lou "sucks" or "used to be better" is because people have insane expectations.


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#144 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 04:01 PM

Yes but most also sign some good ones too.  I realize we're never going to be a huge player in the UFA frenzy but seriously what's his best free agent signing since the year long lockout, Zubrus?   Even that was thought to be an overpayment originally.  The scary thing is I would actually consider the Ryder and Brunner signing two of his better ones given limited term and risk.   I guess Jagr would be his best and that's noting more than a temporary patch.  

 

Also, has any GM ever let as much talent walk out the door with no compensation as Lou has since the year long lockout?  Niedermayer, Rafalski, Gomez, Martin, Parise, Clarkson etc.  Not that I think all of them have been signed or even close to it but there is a disparity between the talent leaving and the talent coming in that needs to be made up somewhere.   

 

That ignores things like trading for the pick to get Niedermayer, trading up to get Parise, selecting Gomez at the end of the first round, and signing Rafalski and Clarkson as undrafted free agents.

 

He offered Niedermayer max contract, and most of those other players haven't lived up to their big contracts.

 

Most good teams aren't built through free agency, they are supplemented by it. Any team that was built through the draft had years of top 10 picks.


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#145 Daniel

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 04:05 PM

Yes but most also sign some good ones too.  I realize we're never going to be a huge player in the UFA frenzy but seriously what's his best free agent signing since the year long lockout, Zubrus?   Even that was thought to be an overpayment originally.  The scary thing is I would actually consider the Ryder and Brunner signing two of his better ones given limited term and risk.   I guess Jagr would be his best and that's noting more than a temporary patch.  

 

Also, has any GM ever let as much talent walk out the door with no compensation as Lou has since the year long lockout?  Niedermayer, Rafalski, Gomez, Martin, Parise, Clarkson etc.  Not that I think all of them have been signed or even close to it but there is a disparity between the talent leaving and the talent coming in that needs to be made up somewhere.   

 

Jagr was a really good signing.  Rolston was really the only awful signing, i.e., one that actually hamstrung the team.

 

He did not willingly part with Niedermeyer or Parise.  You might fault him for not trading Parise, but that's a different issue.  Rafalski ended up getting $6 million a year when the cap was much lower than it is today.  It would basically be the equivalent of giving him $8 million AAV with today's cap.  You can't go nuts over that.  Martin has been up and down with Pittsburgh.  Just ask a Leafs fan how happy they are having Clarkson for the next five years.  And the only reason why a Rangers fan will tell you the Gomez signing worked out well was because they happened to find Canadians management at time when they apparently were all on acid. 


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#146 Lateralous

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 04:24 PM

That ignores things like trading for the pick to get Niedermayer, trading up to get Parise, selecting Gomez at the end of the first round, and signing Rafalski and Clarkson as undrafted free agents.

 

He offered Niedermayer max contract, and most of those other players haven't lived up to their big contracts.

 

Most good teams aren't built through free agency, they are supplemented by it. Any team that was built through the draft had years of top 10 picks.

 

I'm not ignoring that at all.  He deserves to go to the hall of fame for his work as a GM but his legacy will be always be built on everything he did up to 2004.  Since the lockout in 2005, he has been a below average GM in my opinion sliding by on his legacy for the last few seasons.  

 

I absolutely agree that you can't build through free agency and am not attempting to argue that we should.  Part of being a good GM is the ability to re-sign your own guys. Parise may have been out of his hands because of ownership but I absolutely believe part of the reason Niedermayer left was because of the contentious contract negotiations on his previous two RFA contracts.  We can argue the merits of each guy that left and in most cases it made no sense to sign the player for the contract they got but there has to be a plan in place to replace them.     if Conte were still drafting gems in the 2nd and 3rd rounds on a yearly basis like it were the 90's it wouldn't be an issue.  When we're trying to replace Parise with Bobby Butler and every forward we picked in the 1st round since Zajac is essentially a bust, there becomes an issue.  

 

The point is, for a long time there has been more talent going out the door than coming in by a fairly large margin.   You can argue the UFA contracts on guys who left were too high, the draft is a crapshoot with low picks or whatever.   All I know is there are a lot of teams that have managed their assets much much better for the last decade and missing the playoffs 3 out of 4 years pretty much backs that up. 

 

Regarding the top 10 picks, we had one 3 years ago that is banished to Albany and we pissed away one this year.  Again, poor management.  There been opportunities to develop the next elite players.   Larsson may still become one but his development so far has been a head scratcher.   


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#147 Daniel

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 04:34 PM

I'm not ignoring that at all. He deserves to go to the hall of fame for his work as a GM but his legacy will be always be built on everything he did up to 2004. Since the lockout in 2005, he has been a below average GM in my opinion sliding by on his legacy for the last few seasons.

I absolutely agree that you can't build through free agency and am not attempting to argue that we should. Part of being a good GM is the ability to re-sign your own guys. Parise may have been out of his hands because of ownership but I absolutely believe part of the reason Niedermayer left was because of the contentious contract negotiations on his previous two RFA contracts. We can argue the merits of each guy that left and in most cases it made no sense to sign the player for the contract they got but there has to be a plan in place to replace them. if Conte were still drafting gems in the 2nd and 3rd rounds on a yearly basis like it were the 90's it wouldn't be an issue. When we're trying to replace Parise with Bobby Butler and every forward we picked in the 1st round since Zajac is essentially a bust, there becomes an issue.

The point is, for a long time there has been more talent going out the door than coming in by a fairly large margin. You can argue the UFA contracts on guys who left were too high, the draft is a crapshoot with low picks or whatever. All I know is there are a lot of teams that have managed their assets much much better for the last decade and missing the playoffs 3 out of 4 years pretty much backs that up.

Regarding the top 10 picks, we had one 3 years ago that is banished to Albany and we pissed away one this year. Again, poor management. There been opportunities to develop the next elite players. Larsson may still become one but his development so far has been a head scratcher.


Who are these teams that managed their assets better since 2005 and how did they get to being among the better teams in the league? Stl, Anaheim, Detroit, SJ and Boston have all been very well run in recent years. Otherwise you have teams like Pittsburgh, Chicago, and LA that have cores of top ten draft picks.


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#148 Triumph

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 05:03 PM

I've repeated myself on this over and over but you look at the teams that were good in the 90s - Dallas, St. Louis, Detroit, Colorado, New Jersey, Philadelphia.  Does that sound like a good top 6?  The teams that both drafted better and are now in a better position than NJ include Detroit and Philadelphia.  Philadelphia has made so many bad personnel moves that it obscures their truly remarkable drafting - they've pulled a lot of good forwards out of picking low in the draft - Giroux, Carter, Richards, Gagne - hell, even Justin Williams who they threw away for a vet D.  Still, I don't think Philadelphia is very good either now or in the future because they cannot seem to A: stop making dumb trades and B: signing terrible defensemen.  Detroit still has some solid young players coming, but their ability to extract superstars from the lower rounds seems to have suddenly disappeared.

 

Dallas, Colorado, St. Louis all went through full rebuilds that took years because their successes were built in part on neglecting the future.  St. Louis missed the playoffs 4 out of 5 years, Colorado's still not out of the woods yet, etc., Dallas made some very shrewd moves this year but I'm not sold on them long term, etc.

 

NJ's missed the playoffs 3 of 4 years because of their goaltending, period, full stop.  Fix that, which they should've this year but didn't, and they're a lot better team, so it'll be interesting to see what this team is without its past weighing it down.


Edited by Triumph, 19 March 2014 - 05:04 PM.

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#149 NJDevs4978

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 05:13 PM

lol okay they missed the playoffs the last two years solely because of goaltending when they had the 29th ranked offense last year and are like 24th/25th this year.


Edited by NJDevs4978, 19 March 2014 - 05:14 PM.

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#150 Mike Brown

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 05:23 PM

Getting to 91 points seems impossible.  But when you look at the schedule remaining, it's not outlandish.  This is by far the easiest 13 game stretch we've had all year coming up.  Don't give up just yet.  

 

BTW, If you wanna bring up the loss to Florida, they just beat the Sharks last night as well.


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#151 Triumph

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 05:28 PM

lol okay they missed the playoffs the last two years solely because of goaltending when they had the 29th ranked offense last year and are like 24th/25th this year.

 

Not saying they make the playoffs in all 4 of those years.  Clearly the team isn't good enough for that.  But they make it in at least one more year if they get good goaltending.


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#152 DJ Eco

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 05:38 PM

Getting to 91 points seems impossible.  But when you look at the schedule remaining, it's not outlandish.  This is by far the easiest 13 game stretch we've had all year coming up.  Don't give up just yet.  

 

BTW, If you wanna bring up the loss to Florida, they just beat the Sharks last night as well.

 

I felt this way before the Florida weekend but then realized we couldn't "just beat the easy teams". This year's Devils wouldn't make things that simple and easy for the fans now, would they...


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#153 Daniel

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 05:42 PM

Not saying they make the playoffs in all 4 of those years. Clearly the team isn't good enough for that. But they make it in at least one more year if they get good goaltending.


Arguably last year, and this year, we'll see. 2010-2011 was MacLean and Parise being hurt. Unless you're saying that they woukd have made the playoffs if they were getting Vezina caliber goaltending, which is akin to saying, the reason we didn't make the playoffs is because we didn't have Sydney Crosby,


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#154 Lateralous

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 05:42 PM

Who are these teams that managed their assets better since 2005 and how did they get to being among the better teams in the league? Stl, Anaheim, Detroit, SJ and Boston have all been very well run in recent years. Otherwise you have teams like Pittsburgh, Chicago, and LA that have cores of top ten draft picks.


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How many GMs for teams not on that list of well managed teams have been able to keep their job for a decade? Sather?

I would also add Phoenix to that list of teams with good management. Given all the hardships Maloney has had to deal with during his tenure that were completely out of his control, it's amazing how competitive they've been for the last 5 years.
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#155 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:06 PM

Getting to 91 points seems impossible.  But when you look at the schedule remaining, it's not outlandish.  This is by far the easiest 13 game stretch we've had all year coming up.  Don't give up just yet.  

 

BTW, If you wanna bring up the loss to Florida, they just beat the Sharks last night as well.

 

Yes. It is outlandish. This team just isn't good enough. And what's an "easy" stretch? They can't beat the best or the worst when the game matters. 


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#156 justdo3043

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 06:57 PM

my reason for optimism...our future on the back end seems very promising

 

Cory Schneider in goal

Adam Larsson    Jon Merrill      Eric Gelinas    

and if one or two of the following work out i hope we have a very solid top 6 

Steve Santini      Seth Helgeson        Reece Scarlett     Damon Severson    Alexander Urbom   

 

if enough develop into solid d men which takes longer or so ive read we can build enough offense over the next couple years to have a very competitive team in 3 or 4 years


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#157 Neb00rs

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 07:05 PM

Getting to 91 points seems impossible.  But when you look at the schedule remaining, it's not outlandish.  This is by far the easiest 13 game stretch we've had all year coming up.  Don't give up just yet.  

 

BTW, If you wanna bring up the loss to Florida, they just beat the Sharks last night as well.

 

There it is.

 

To you, every stretch we have is the easiest all year.


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#158 Devilsfan118

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 07:15 PM

Edit: I misunderstood your post mike Stick a fork in the Devils, they're done. (Think I stole that from judge Judy) Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Edited by Devilsfan118, 19 March 2014 - 09:10 PM.

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#159 2ELIAS6

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 08:00 PM

...and judge judy is clearly a wise women everyone knows that
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#160 NJDevs4978

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 08:55 PM

Not to mention Florida needed freaking 52 saves from Luongo to beat the Sharks.  Our goalies ain't playing well enough to do THAT.


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