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The Thread Formerly Known as The Reasons for Optimism Thread


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#161 Triumph

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 09:03 PM

This 'we couldn't beat team X' stuff is very dumb.  I can go through and find plenty of games where the Cup winning Devils lost to a team at the bottom of the standings.


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#162 Devilsfan118

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 09:05 PM

Delete

Edited by Devilsfan118, 19 March 2014 - 09:06 PM.

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#163 Mike Brown

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:18 AM

I felt this way before the Florida weekend but then realized we couldn't "just beat the easy teams". This year's Devils wouldn't make things that simple and easy for the fans now, would they...

 

It happens.  To counter the loss to Florida, I didn't think we would beat Philly.

 

Yes. It is outlandish. This team just isn't good enough. And what's an "easy" stretch? They can't beat the best or the worst when the game matters. 

 

Why isn't this team good enough?

 

There it is.

 

To you, every stretch we have is the easiest all year.

 

Find me another 12 game stretch that doesn't include the Bruins, Penguins, Blues, Ducks, Sharks, Avalanche, Kings, or Blackhawks, and in that stretch 65-70% of the games are at home.  I'll make it easy for you.  There isn't one.

 

We only have one game left with an elite team, and that's the final game against the Bruins.


Edited by Mike Brown, 20 March 2014 - 05:37 AM.

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#164 Chimaira_Devil_#9

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 06:00 AM

Why isn't this team good enough?

 

 

:blink: Have you actually watched them this year?

 

There are too many reasons, but the main ones are lack of consistent play from anyone not named Jagr and players not reaching expectations/potential.


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#165 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 06:29 AM

1) It happens.  To counter the loss to Florida, I didn't think we would beat Philly.

 

 

2) Why isn't this team good enough?

 

 

3) Find me another 12 game stretch that doesn't include the Bruins, Penguins, Blues, Ducks, Sharks, Avalanche, Kings, or Blackhawks, and in that stretch 65-70% of the games are at home.  I'll make it easy for you.  There isn't one.

 

We only have one game left with an elite team, and that's the final game against the Bruins.

 

1) Tri is right in that fans tend to make too much of losing to a poor-record opponent like Florida, but the fact is the Devils have not shown any ability to be consistent, and have yet to show that any game on their schedule should be penciled in as a win for them.  That's how you get to be two games over NHL-.500 at this point in the season.  Teams like the Devils are frustrating because they tease, unlike teams that are, say, 10 games under.  You get a 5-2-0 burst after the break, everyone gets hopeful, then the next thing you know, three straight losses...just like that, the Devils are 5-5-0 in their last 10, at a time when they need points desperately.  If the Devils go 4-0-0 or 3-0-1 in their next four games, I'll start to have a glimmer of hope again, but not unless that happens. 

 

2) and 3) I'm sorry, but if you still can't figure out why you continue to get on some people's nerves, look no further than your question in #2.  Are you really this dense that you need this explained to you?  10 different people could probably come up with various detailed and accurate posts as to why this is team isn't good enough, from top to bottom, with lots of by-the-eyes and statistical data to back it up, and you would probably respond with "Yeah, but why isn't this team good enough?"  Look, until a team is mathematically elimated, there's always a chance.  I'm not sure how much you know about the '87-'88 Devils, but they squeaked into the playoffs after looking like they were completely dead...a 4-10-0 drought had them at 28-34-6, then seemingly out of nowhere, they went 10-2-1 to close out the season, including, of course, the OT win in the last game of the year that propelled them in.  Sure, crazy sh!t sometimes happens, but that's the only case anyone realistically has anymore, as to how and why the Devils can make the playoffs.  There's no way you can make a compelling case for them otherwise.  They need a LOT of guys to start playing a LOT better, RIGHT NOW. 

 

AGAIN, stop listing the quality of opponents...that has not been a factor for the Devils...like others have noted, for the most part the Devils tend to be competitive within most games, regardless of the quality of the opponent, but this teams ranks 22nd out of 30 teams in points, and can easily fall to 25th by the end of the season if they fall apart.  What exactly constitutes an "easy" stretch for a team like that?       


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 20 March 2014 - 06:29 AM.

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It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#166 Mike Brown

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 08:32 AM

:blink: Have you actually watched them this year?

 

There are too many reasons, but the main ones are lack of consistent play from anyone not named Jagr and players not reaching expectations/potential.

 

Several factors come into play regarding the consistency thing.  The sheer number of back to backs is one.  We now have a chance to get some consistency with 9 of 13 games being at home, and only one more back to back.  Also Deboer has to stop trying to fix things that aren't broke.

 

How are Henrique, Zajac, Elias, and Clowe not reaching expectations?

 

AGAIN, stop listing the quality of opponents...that has not been a factor for the Devils...like others have noted, for the most part the Devils tend to be competitive within most games, regardless of the quality of the opponent, but this teams ranks 22nd out of 30 teams in points, and can easily fall to 25th by the end of the season if they fall apart.  What exactly constitutes an "easy" stretch for a team like that?       

 

Oh really?

 

VS top 10 teams: 9-11-4 (.458 PTS%)

VS middle 10 teams: 11-9-6 (.538 PTS%)

VS bottom 10 teams: 9-7-3 (.553 PTS%)

 

Our schedule consists of 1 game against a top ten team, 5 games against middle ten teams, and 7 games against bottom ten teams.  And while yes I agree that our record vs the bottom 10 teams should be better, let's not make it seem as if the quality of opponent has been a non factor.

 

There is a reason why I put "easy" in quotation marks btw.  We have a favorable schedule with only one set of back to backs, and 9 of 13 games at home.  We have yet to have a portion of our schedule this favorable until now.


Edited by Mike Brown, 20 March 2014 - 08:33 AM.

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#167 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 08:51 AM

Oh really?

 

VS top 10 teams: 9-11-4 (.458 PTS%)

VS middle 10 teams: 11-9-6 (.538 PTS%)

VS bottom 10 teams: 9-7-3 (.553 PTS%)

 

Our schedule consists of 1 game against a top ten team, 5 games against middle ten teams, and 7 games against bottom ten teams.  And while yes I agree that our record vs the bottom 10 teams should be better, let's not make it seem as if the quality of opponent has been a non factor.

 

There is a reason why I put "easy" in quotation marks btw.  We have a favorable schedule with only one set of back to backs, and 9 of 13 games at home.  We have yet to have a portion of our schedule this favorable until now.

 

 

Those point%s are not THAT different between top 10, middle 10, and lower 10, and you know it...that's really reaching on your part.  Wow, the Devils are an awesome 20-16-9 combined against mid-10 and bottom-10 teams.  I can totally see why they can go 10-2-1 or something like that now that the schedule is "favorable"...please.  Like I and others have pointed out, when you've done what the Devils have done in 69 games, it's hard to expect them to suddenly figure it out...for them, there is no favorable.  I'll throw a point% out there for the rest of the season...let's say something around .667, for the hell of it, which would be a quantum leap over ANY of their performances against mid-10 and lower-10 teams to date this season.  That would amount to about 17 points, which would give them 88 on the season.   

 

Just face it...I said early on in this thread that the Devils couldn't afford a losing streak and couldn't afford any 500ish stretches if they wanted to make this happen.  Well:

 

3-game losing streak

5-5-0 in the 10 games since the break 

 

That alone has made the "favorable" part almost insignificant at this point. 


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It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#168 redruM

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:20 AM

1) Tri is right in that fans tend to make too much of losing to a poor-record opponent like Florida,

They were winning 3-1 and lost 5-3...

thats a BAD loss...
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#169 RizzMB30

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:22 AM

Even Parise thinks the Devils will make playoffs.  Lol, come on guys. 

http://www.nhl.com/i...id=nhl:topheads

 

 

"They've got a fantastic coach, and I still think they're going to make the playoffs. I think they'll be all right. I am a big fan of Pete [DeBoer] and how he coaches. I think they've got good players there. I just have a feeling that they will make it."

Since the wounds have healed a bit and I've read what Parise has said.  It's extremely difficult for me not to respect the guy. 


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#170 '7'

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:28 AM

It's easy for Parise to be complimentary of us. He just wants to sort of quell the tidal wave of boos coming his way. The Devils fan base is bitter and angry as of right now.

 

"I love deboer, I think they'll make the playoffs, they'll be all right...good players etc..........oh by the way I signed in Minnesota"


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#171 Devils Pride 26

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:37 AM

It's a hell of a lot easier for Parise to say "Yeah, I think they'll make the playoffs" 

 

I don't think he's a terrible person despite being broken hearted with the decision he made. Honestly, Parise has always been a nice guy, I wonder if somewhere he feels like a dick and somewhat responsible for what the Devils have become now without him. Not like "damn this is all my fault" - more of "Damn, those were my guys for so long - I hate seeing Travis, Marty and them struggle like this... Would it have been the same if I was here?"

 

As far as everyone saying "I'm over Parise leaving" - it's obviously not true. It's like a girlfriend leaving you. For a while you might want their life to be miserable. But once you go on and see life goes on without them, you really stop caring. The only way to get to that point is making the playoffs. The sad thing is that it hurts like hell right about now as a Devils fan thinking about the Parise era compared to now missing the playoffs two years in a row. 


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#172 Mike Brown

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:52 AM

Those point%s are not THAT different between top 10, middle 10, and lower 10, and you know it...that's really reaching on your part.  Wow, the Devils are an awesome 20-16-9 combined against mid-10 and bottom-10 teams.  I can totally see why they can go 10-2-1 or something like that now that the schedule is "favorable"...please.  Like I and others have pointed out, when you've done what the Devils have done in 69 games, it's hard to expect them to suddenly figure it out...for them, there is no favorable.  I'll throw a point% out there for the rest of the season...let's say something around .667, for the hell of it, which would be a quantum leap over ANY of their performances against mid-10 and lower-10 teams to date this season.  That would amount to about 17 points, which would give them 88 on the season.   

 

Just face it...I said early on in this thread that the Devils couldn't afford a losing streak and couldn't afford any 500ish stretches if they wanted to make this happen.  Well:

 

3-game losing streak

5-5-0 in the 10 games since the break 

 

That alone has made the "favorable" part almost insignificant at this point

 

No it hasn't.  We're playing 9 of 13 games at home with only one set of back to backs.  Our record is significantly better against the lesser teams than it is against the better teams.  Regardless of how good we've been against the lesser teams, it still doesn't change the fact it's still better to have these games against the lesser teams than the better teams.

 

1. 12 of 13 games are against lesser teams.

2. 9 of 13 games are at home.

3. Only one set of back to backs.

 

All of this equates to a favorable schedule.

 

1) Tri is right in that fans tend to make too much of losing to a poor-record opponent like Florida,

They were winning 3-1 and lost 5-3...

thats a BAD loss...

 

It was a bad loss, but the Panthers also just beat the Sharks in San Jose.


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#173 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:57 AM

1) Tri is right in that fans tend to make too much of losing to a poor-record opponent like Florida,

They were winning 3-1 and lost 5-3...

thats a BAD loss...

 

Of course it was.  I was more speaking in generalities.  Fans tend to make a big deal out of losing to teams lower than them in the standings, but don't tend to do the same when they beat teams a good bit ahead of them.   


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Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
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Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#174 RizzMB30

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 10:02 AM

It's easy for Parise to be complimentary of us. He just wants to sort of quell the tidal wave of boos coming his way. The Devils fan base is bitter and angry as of right now.

 

"I love deboer, I think they'll make the playoffs, they'll be all right...good players etc..........oh by the way I signed in Minnesota"

Quell the wave? Maybe that's on his mind, but no you're wrong.  He said in the interview that he doesn't care if he gets booed.  Which he shouldn't, he's a professional. 


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#175 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 10:30 AM

No it hasn't.  We're playing 9 of 13 games at home with only one set of back to backs.  Our record is significantly better against the lesser teams than it is against the better teams.  Regardless of how good we've been against the lesser teams, it still doesn't change the fact it's still better to have these games against the lesser teams than the better teams.

 

1. 12 of 13 games are against lesser teams.

2. 9 of 13 games are at home.

3. Only one set of back to backs.

 

All of this equates to a favorable schedule.

 

 

It was a bad loss, but the Panthers also just beat the Sharks in San Jose.

 

Jesus H...you are the absolute epitome of "talking to a friggin' wall".  You are incapable of listening to anyone about anything and can't ever admit your logic could possibly be flawed.    

 

The Devils are roughly 4-5-1 on average in 10-game increments against top-10s (.450 point%).  They're roughly 5-4-1 on average in 10-game increments against mid- and bottom-10s (.550 point%).  You can come up with other .450 and .550 W-L-OTL records, but the difference amounts to one win.  Yeah, one whopping win over 10 games is such a huge difference.  How the fvck is that "significantly better"?      

 

And that 3-game losing streak was extremely costly, and yeah, it's sucked a lot of the juice out of these next 13 games, regardless of the more favorable aspects of those matchups.  Not sure how you downplay that one.   

 

Who gives a flying fvck about what the Panthers did against San Jose?  It's been pointed out multiple times by me and others that it's not unheard of for lower-echelon teams to beat good teams in the NHL.  The difference is San Jose can overcome a loss like that...they're not fighting for their playoff lives.  The Devils are.  Do you really need that one explained to you as well?   


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 20 March 2014 - 11:30 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#176 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 11:13 AM

No it hasn't.  We're playing 9 of 13 games at home with only one set of back to backs.  Our record is significantly better against the lesser teams than it is against the better teams.  Regardless of how good we've been against the lesser teams, it still doesn't change the fact it's still better to have these games against the lesser teams than the better teams.

 

1. 12 of 13 games are against lesser teams.

2. 9 of 13 games are at home.

3. Only one set of back to backs.

 

All of this equates to a favorable schedule.

 

 

It was a bad loss, but the Panthers also just beat the Sharks in San Jose.

 

So basically, you think a team that hasn't strung 3 wins together since November will suddenly be able to put up roughly 8 wins in the next 10 games.

 

No schedule is favorable to this team. It's been nearly 70 games and they've yet to show any signs of consistency.

 

As for Florida beating San Jose, so what?? The point is that NO game is "easy" for this Devils team. They just don't have things coming together for them.


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#177 DJ Eco

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 11:44 AM

So basically, you think a team that hasn't strung 3 wins together since November will suddenly be able to put up roughly 8 wins in the next 10 games.

 

Crazier things have happened.


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#178 Chimaira_Devil_#9

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 11:45 AM

Several factors come into play regarding the consistency thing.  The sheer number of back to backs is one.  We now have a chance to get some consistency with 9 of 13 games being at home, and only one more back to back.  Also Deboer has to stop trying to fix things that aren't broke.

 

How are Henrique, Zajac, Elias, and Clowe not reaching expectations?

 

 

 Back to back games account for 50% of out points. If anything we play better in back to back games. In 17 back to backs we have only failed to pick up points on 3 occasions. in 7 of the back to backs so far we have got 3 or more points.

 

Also we have 4 more back to back games this season:

 

22nd:leafs

23rd Rags

 

31st: Panthers

1st:Sabers

 

4th:capitals

5th:Hurricanes

 

10th: Senators

11th: Islanders

 

(how F*cking difficult is it to paste a table into this thing)

 

Edit: i got so wrapped up in putting the table in i forgot my main point. The Back to backs are not the reason for the teams inconsistent play. They just havent been that good in any situation.


Edited by Chimaira_Devil_#9, 20 March 2014 - 12:15 PM.

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#179 Devilsfan118

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 11:55 AM

Hell I mean, it could happen.  I also could win the lottery, but you don't see me spending my savings on mega millions tickets.


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Anyone who says, ‘You played in that New York area,’ I say, ‘No, I played in New Jersey.’ - Ken Daneyko


#180 Colorado Rockies 1976

Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 12:06 PM

Hell I mean, it could happen.  I also could win the lottery, but you don't see me spending my savings on mega millions tickets.

 

Hell, I pointed out a specific Devils team that DID go on a "Holy sh!t!" streak, but MB keeps looking reaching for shaky specifics as to how everything is somehow lining up for the Devils.  If they somehow pull it off, awesome, but there's not one shred of evidence that points to the Devils pulling off '88 all over again.     


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!




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