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#21 dmann422

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 08:49 AM

You never know with goalies. They're such a crapshoot,

lol you say this here but in the Marty thread you say "Kinkaid is going to be solid" as if it's a given...How can you say that if goalies are such crapshoots?
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#22 Devilsfan118

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 09:05 AM

lol you say this here but in the Marty thread you say "Kinkaid is going to be solid" as if it's a given...How can you say that if goalies are such crapshoots?

 

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#23 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:10 AM

It's pretty rare for goalies to get drafted in higher rounds simply because forwards and defensemen are more valuable than goalies. So draft position for goalies doesn't mean a whole lot.


Since when is it rare for a goalie to be drafted in higher rounds? Goalies are spread pretty evenly throughout every draft. One that is expected to be a great goalie may be drafted earlier and one that's not like say, Clermont, is drafted in the 6th.
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#24 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:23 AM

Since when is it rare for a goalie to be drafted in higher rounds? Goalies are spread pretty evenly throughout every draft. One that is expected to be a great goalie may be drafted earlier and one that's not like say, Clermont, is drafted in the 6th.

 

Two goalies taken in the first round and two more in the second in 2010, three taken in the second round in 2011, two taken in the first round and two more in the second in 2012, four taken in the second round in 2013.  By my math, that's 15 goalies drafted in the top two rounds the past four drafts...yep, sounds pretty rare to me.  Mike, think maybe you could curb your urge to post incessantly by actually doing just the slightest bit of research before posting?  I dug this up in about 5 minutes, tops.  


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 25 February 2014 - 11:28 AM.

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#25 Sneax

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:28 AM

I just think we should talk about the fact that he thinks goalies aren't that important. Goalie is one of the most important positions, if not the most important. What bad goalies are winning Stanley Cups? I imagine not a whole fvcking lot.


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#26 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:42 AM

I just think we should talk about the fact that he thinks goalies aren't that important. Goalie is one of the most important positions, if not the most important. What bad goalies are winning Stanley Cups? I imagine not a whole fvcking lot.

 

At the very least, you need goalies who are capable of raising (or at the very least, maintaining) their games during the playoffs (Brodeur has done that, as have others).  Of course, it may take years before that question can be answered with some guys, but you can deal with slightly above average in the regular season if a goalie kicks it up a notch or two come playoff time (provided that goalie isn't killing you in the regular season).   


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#27 Mike Brown

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:58 AM

lol you say this here but in the Marty thread you say "Kinkaid is going to be solid" as if it's a given...How can you say that if goalies are such crapshoots?


You ignored my other posts. Go find them.

Busted..


Nope.

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#28 Mike Brown

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:00 PM

Since when is it rare for a goalie to be drafted in higher rounds? Goalies are spread pretty evenly throughout every draft. One that is expected to be a great goalie may be drafted earlier and one that's not like say, Clermont, is drafted in the 6th.


Its quite uncommon. Also go look at the best goalies in the league and go see their draft position. Some are in the first, but many are like in the 100s in terms of being picked. Its all over the place.

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#29 Mike Brown

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:03 PM

I just think we should talk about the fact that he thinks goalies aren't that important. Goalie is one of the most important positions, if not the most important. What bad goalies are winning Stanley Cups? I imagine not a whole fvcking lot.


True but an elite forward capable of 100 points is more valuable. Goalies have a limited role. Their job is to prevent goals. The 5 skaters are also capable of preventing goals, but they also have to score goals as well.

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#30 Sneax

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:24 PM

True but an elite forward capable of 100 points is more valuable. Goalies have a limited role. Their job is to prevent goals. The 5 skaters are also capable of preventing goals, but they also have to score goals as well.

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I've never heard of a foward stealing a game. You can get outplayed in every facet of the game but have an unstoppable goal tender and still win. Their limited role is the most important role, and as a devils fan I would imagine you would have that mentallity. Stopping the other team from scoring is priority number one.

 

 

 If you had to choose between a 100 point foward or a decent upgrade in goalie, sure you would take the 100point player because those are pretty rare as well. But if you could take Sidney Crosby or Patrick Roy/Martin Broduer who would you take? I would take one of the goalies.


Edited by Sneax, 25 February 2014 - 12:24 PM.

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#31 Mike Brown

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:37 PM

I've never heard of a foward stealing a game. You can get outplayed in every facet of the game but have an unstoppable goal tender and still win. Their limited role is the most important role, and as a devils fan I would imagine you would have that mentallity. Stopping the other team from scoring is priority number one.


If you had to choose between a 100 point foward or a decent upgrade in goalie, sure you would take the 100point player because those are pretty rare as well. But if you could take Sidney Crosby or Patrick Roy/Martin Broduer who would you take? I would take one of the goalies.


I would take Crosby. Most GMs would agree with me. I love goalies. But the difference between a great goalie and an average goalie isn't astronomical. The difference between an elite forward and average forward is astronomical.

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#32 Devilsfan118

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:45 PM

Nope.

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You never know with goalies.  They're such a crapshoot,

 
Followed less than 7 hours later with..
 

Kinkaid is going to be a solid goalie.  

 

Consistency.  That's all I want.  You lose all credibility when you play both sides of a discussion, and then backtrack by claiming we don't "understand" what you're trying to say.  I feel like a hypocrite when I reply to you like this though, because I'm doing so in the interest of de-clogging the boards - but in reality I'm helping derail the thread as much as you are by giving you another chance to post.

 

You know what the most unfortunate part is though?  Putting you on ignore isn't a feasible option - people keep quoting you.  Trust me, I tried, and it doesn't help at all.


Edited by Devilsfan118, 25 February 2014 - 12:47 PM.

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#33 Mike Brown

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:47 PM




Followed less than 7 hours later with..


Consistency. That's all I want. You lose all credibility when you play both sides of a discussion, and then backtrack by claiming we don't "understand" what you're trying to say. I feel like a hypocrite when I reply to you like this though, because I'm doing so in the interest of de-clogging the boards - but in reality I'm helping derail the thread as much as you are by giving you another chance to post.

You know what the most annoying part is though? Putting you on ignore isn't a feasible option - people keep quoting you. Trust me, I tried, and it doesn't help at all.


I'm not playing both sides. I simply said I believe Kinkaid is going to be a solid goalie. And soon after stated that its hard to predict goalies in which case I could be wrong about him.
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#34 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:57 PM

Its quite uncommon. Also go look at the best goalies in the league and go see their draft position. Some are in the first, but many are like in the 100s in terms of being picked. Its all over the place.

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The top 20 goalies by save percentage. Those seem like some pretty decent long-term goalies drafted in the 1st few rounds.

 

1st rd: (7) Rask, Bernier, Schneider, Price, Varlamov, Fluery, Luongo

2nd rd: (4) Harding, Peters, Lehner, Crawford

3rd rd: (2) Bishop, Mason

5th rd: (1) Miller

7th rd (2) Khudobin, Lundqvist

undrafted: (4) Scrivens, Lack, Bobrovsky, Hiller


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#35 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:58 PM

Its quite uncommon. Also go look at the best goalies in the league and go see their draft position. Some are in the first, but many are like in the 100s in terms of being picked. Its all over the place.

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Two goalies taken in the first round and two more in the second in 2010, three taken in the second round in 2011, two taken in the first round and two more in the second in 2012, four taken in the second round in 2013.  By my math, that's 15 goalies drafted in the top two rounds the past four drafts...yep, sounds pretty rare to me.  Mike, think maybe you could curb your urge to post incessantly by actually doing just the slightest bit of research before posting?  I dug this up in about 5 minutes, tops.  

 

So even when I presented CLEAR EVIDENCE that goalies taken in the higher rounds is not at all uncommon, you act like my post (which is a fact and not an opinion and it directly refutes what you posted) didn't even exist.  Your point about goalies rarely being taken in the early rounds is WRONG, and there's no way can squirm your way out on this one (but I won't be surprised when you try).   


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#36 Mike Brown

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:15 PM

The top 20 goalies by save percentage. Those seem like some pretty decent long-term goalies drafted in the 1st few rounds.

1st rd: (7) Rask, Bernier, Schneider, Price, Varlamov, Fluery, Luongo
2nd rd: (4) Harding, Peters, Lehner, Crawford
3rd rd: (2) Bishop, Mason
5th rd: (1) Miller
7th rd (2) Khudobin, Lundqvist
undrafted: (4) Scrivens, Lack, Bobrovsky, Hiller


Exactly. All over the place. Belfour was also never drafted and Roy was a 4th round pick I think.

So even when I presented CLEAR EVIDENCE that goalies taken in the higher rounds is not at all uncommon, you act like my post (which is a fact and not an opinion and it directly refutes what you posted) didn't even exist. Your point about goalies rarely being taken in the early rounds is WRONG, and there's no way can squirm your way out on this one (but I won't be surprised when you try).


I didn't see your post. Relax. Considering how often my posts go ignored or misinterpreted, you're in no position to complain.

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#37 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:21 PM

Exactly. All over the place. Belfour was also never drafted and Roy was a 4th round pick I think.


I didn't see your post. Relax. Considering how often my posts go ignored or misinterpreted, you're in no position to complain.

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How is that all over the place? More than half are in the first 2 rounds. The other 9 are spread through 5 rounds and undrafted.

 

What does Belfour or Roy have to do with it? I just listed the top 20 in the league right now.


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#38 Mike Brown

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:27 PM

How is that all over the place? More than half are in the first 2 rounds. The other 9 are spread through 5 rounds and undrafted.

What does Belfour or Roy have to do with it? I just listed the top 20 in the league right now.


But why ignore history? Historically you'll see more of the randomness I'm talking about.

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#39 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:32 PM

But why ignore history? Historically you'll see more of the randomness I'm talking about.

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So... your argument is look at the top goalies, it's random. Then I show you it isn't. So now I have to look back at history. Did you ever think of just not posting if you don't know something?


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#40 Sneax

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:44 PM

Just sheer idiocy, talks about history clearly hasn't looked for himself. Starting to think he's a troll because his stupidity is endless. It's actually becoming extremley infuriating because he has an opinion that conflicts with general consensus on everything. And even when he disproves himself and/or is shown facts to dispute his opinion he continues to stay stubborn.


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