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#221 LucifersDog

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 07:54 PM

I think some people need to calm down and have a little bit of perspective. 

 

The years and the salary are not the end of the world.  Even without knowing how much salary Carolina is picking up, this is not going to be a cap team, and with some maneuvering, you can probably still afford a big ticket free agent like Statsny even if that would have been in the cards in the first place, which is a huge assumption to make.  

 

And he's not an immovable object.  At the trade deadline next year, he has one more year when the cap the following year maybe be as high as $75 million, and you could further dice up his salary if need be.   He might even be of use to a cap floor team. 

 

Before you blow your lid on Lou referencing 2009, I suggest you read the entirety of what he said.  He said that Ruutu is a top 9 forward, i.e. third line forward.  He mentioned his 26 goal season in the context of saying that he believes there's some kind of offensive upside, especially in light of the fact that he had a good Olympics (which Lou also mentioned) and that he's not young, but he isn't ancient either.  In other words, the Devils wanted another big nasty guy to play on the third line, but we might be pleasantly surprised with his offense.  So this isn't like Lou making a trade for Dany Heatley last season and saying he's excited because he was formerly a 50 goal scorer. 

 

We'll know this offseason whether Lou is really living in the past, if he hasn't completely lost his marbles.  If he gives Marty an extension, even at the league minimum, it'll be a really bad sign.  Same if he does nothing to alleviate the defensive logjam, if he extends Bernier, Gionta or Carter for longer than one year, if he does something really stupid with the young defensemen, or if he decides to play hard ball with Schneider.   At this point though, I think it's unfair to assume that he'll do any of that, and the smart money says that he actually won't.

 

Is Lou a relative or your neighbor?


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#222 Daniel

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 08:07 PM

I think the Kovy fiasco and what we paid to get him really fvcked Lou up on trades.

If Lou is as clever and shrewd as we all think he is, Lou could have made a package to acquire a top 6 forward. Fayne, a pick and a prospect could have brought back something decent. We have Larsson languishing down in the A and he'll continue to do so.

 

The Kovy trade was actually very good.  The only things that turned out to have any value in the trade were Oduya and a late first rounder.  The contract, who knows whether that was VBK or Lou, although Lou probably could have nixed it if he wanted to.

 

Otherwise, tell me the top 6 forward we could have obtained, and at what price.  I agreed you with that Hemsky could have been gotten for virtually nothing.  On the other hand, except for St. Louis, which wasn't happening anyway, I would not have traded Fayne, a useful draft pick, and a prospect who would have to have been one of Santini, Matteau, Severson, Gelinas, Merrill, Larsson, or Boucher for any of the people that got traded today, and it wouldn't have been enough to land someone like Kesler, who has issues of his own.

 

The situation with Larsson is not ideal, but at the same time he would not make the team appreciably better this year.  As I've been saying, this is one of the best teams in the league defensively by whatever metric you want to go on.  It needs offense, which Larsson might marginally improve in the short term. 


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#223 CarpathianForest

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 08:24 PM

The Kovy trade was actually very good.  The only things that turned out to have any value in the trade were Oduya and a late first rounder.  The contract, who knows whether that was VBK or Lou, although Lou probably could have nixed it if he wanted to.

 

Otherwise, tell me the top 6 forward we could have obtained, and at what price.  I agreed you with that Hemsky could have been gotten for virtually nothing.  On the other hand, except for St. Louis, which wasn't happening anyway, I would not have traded Fayne, a useful draft pick, and a prospect who would have to have been one of Santini, Matteau, Severson, Gelinas, Merrill, Larsson, or Boucher for any of the people that got traded today, and it wouldn't have been enough to land someone like Kesler, who has issues of his own.

 

The situation with Larsson is not ideal, but at the same time he would not make the team appreciably better this year.  As I've been saying, this is one of the best teams in the league defensively by whatever metric you want to go on.  It needs offense, which Larsson might marginally improve in the short term. 

 

I'm talking about how the Kovy thing turned out with him splitting to Russia. We have a few more prospects than the ones you mentioned. Severson like you mentioned, Scarlett is another one. I don't think Matteau is going to be anything better than a third liner so I would have traded him too. Larsson would only be a marginal improvement, but he'd be an improvement nonetheless.

 

Even if we didn't bring up Larsson we could still dress him as a 7th D man.

 

Lou is out to lunch

 

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#224 Daniel

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 08:39 PM

I'm talking about how the Kovy thing turned out with him splitting to Russia. We have a few more prospects than the ones you mentioned. Severson like you mentioned, Scarlett is another one. I don't think Matteau is going to be anything better than a third liner so I would have traded him too. Larsson would only be a marginal improvement, but he'd be an improvement nonetheless.

 

Even if we didn't bring up Larsson we could still dress him as a 7th D man.

 

Lou is out to lunch

 

 

 

 

Not quite sure how you can blame Lou for Kovy going to Russia. 

 

I don't really see another team going all that crazy over Reece Scarlett.  The prospects that actually did get exchanged for the brand name guys are all better than him.

 

And oh boy, I can just imagine the howls if Larsson were the seventh defenseman every night.  Actually, I don't have to imagine it, since it happened at the beginning of the year and everyone was freaking out then. 

 

You want out to lunch, go examine the moves of Mike Gillis, Nonis or Garth Snow.  Or better yet, if you want awful asset management, just imagine if Lou traded Larsson for Martin Erat, which is pretty close to what the Caps did when they gave up on Forsberg for him. 


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#225 CarpathianForest

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 08:50 PM

Not quite sure how you can blame Lou for Kovy going to Russia. 

 

I don't really see another team going all that crazy over Reece Scarlett.  The prospects that actually did get exchanged for the brand name guys are all better than him.

 

And oh boy, I can just imagine the howls if Larsson were the seventh defenseman every night.  Actually, I don't have to imagine it, since it happened at the beginning of the year and everyone was freaking out then. 

 

You want out to lunch, go examine the moves of Mike Gillis, Nonis or Garth Snow.  Or better yet, if you want awful asset management, just imagine if Lou traded Larsson for Martin Erat, which is pretty close to what the Caps did when they gave up on Forsberg for him. 

 

I'm not blaming Lou for Kovy leaving. What I'm saying is Lou did give up a good grip of stuff for Kovy especially if you include the 1st round forfeit. Then Kovalchuk leaves and Lou is left with nothing. Just speculation, but that has to influence Lou's decision making process concerning trades. This is definitely not the same Lou that made some pretty good trades in the early 2000s. 2012 was the only season in recent memory where Lou truly brought in some guys to help fill those gaps we were having trouble with sans the Kovy trade. The past several years it's been 4th line, 3rd line guys and back pairing d men like Steckel, Sullivan , Havelid and Skoula.

I'm not saying that Larsson could be a 7th D, but if you packaged Fayne, Lokti maybe and some other items you could come up with a solid return. Hell, Volchenkov could be the 7th D with Larsson in his place. In addition I'm still perplexed and a bit ticked that Lou didn't forfeit that 29th pick. IMO drafting Matteau is a bust. He'd be better off as trade bait. His ceiling is at best Dainius Zubrus.


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#226 Brandon

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 08:57 PM

Caught wind of this trade at around 12:30-1:00, a buddy of mine's dad is good friends with Ruutu in Raleigh and apparently Ruutu said he was going to be waiving his NTC to come to either Jersey or Columbus.

If Carolina is retaining enough salary to get the cap hit down to $3.75 or $3.5 I'm good with this, but i'm not thrilled about losing Loktionov. A lot of people had started to sour on him but i've always loved the kid, easily a 3rd line center with youth for Carolina.
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#227 Daniel

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 08:58 PM

I'm not blaming Lou for Kovy leaving. What I'm saying is Lou did give up a good grip of stuff for Kovy especially if you include the 1st round forfeit. Then Kovalchuk leaves and Lou is left with nothing. Just speculation, but that has to influence Lou's decision making process concerning trades. This is definitely not the same Lou that made some pretty good trades in the early 2000s. 2012 was the only season in recent memory where Lou truly brought in some guys to help fill those gaps we were having trouble with sans the Kovy trade. The past several years it's been 4th line, 3rd line guys and back pairing d men like Steckel, Sullivan , Havelid and Skoula.

I'm not saying that Larsson could be a 7th D, but if you packaged Fayne, Lokti maybe and some other items you could come up with a solid return. Hell, Volchenkov could be the 7th D with Larsson in his place. In addition I'm still perplexed and a bit ticked that Lou didn't forfeit that 29th pick. IMO drafting Matteau is a bust. He'd be better off as trade bait. His ceiling is at best Dainius Zubrus.

 

Lou gave up virtually nothing for Kovy in the actual trade.  If you want to include the 1st round forfeit, whatever, but it has nothing to do with examining his deadline deals. 

 

Otherwise, believe it or not, most other team's GMs are not out there for the fleecing.  So if you're expecting Lou to do the Jedi mind trick each year, then I don't know what to tell you.  But the most important thing is that I do not recall Lou getting truly fleeced in any trade in recent memory.  Some didn't work out as well as we hoped, but he never made a move like Gomez for McDonough.

 

And we should be thrilled if Matteau turns out to be as good as Zubrus, at least if you're looking at Zubrus's whole career.


Edited by Daniel, 05 March 2014 - 08:59 PM.

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#228 NJDevs4978

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:04 PM

If Carolina is retaining enough salary to get the cap hit down to $3.75 or $3.5 I'm good with this, but i'm not thrilled about losing Loktionov. A lot of people had started to sour on him but i've always loved the kid, easily a 3rd line center with youth for Carolina.

 

The #canes retained 20% of Tuomo Ruutu's remaining contract in the trade with #NJDevils.

 

So it's a 3.8 million contract for us.


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#229 Brandon

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:07 PM


Chris Johnston@reporterchris 1h

The #canes retained 20% of Tuomo Ruutu's remaining contract in the trade with #NJDevils.


So it's a 3.8 million contract for us.

Not bad, i'm fine with that. He's a player that can add to our depth and depth is a big part of winning in this league, that being said i'm very disappointed that we didn't make a play for one of the bigger names out there, especially considering their overall low price tag.
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#230 TheRedStorm

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:08 PM

 I'm good with this, but i'm not thrilled about losing Loktionov. A lot of people had started to sour on him but i've always loved the kid, easily a 3rd line center with youth for Carolina.

 

Why? Anyone really think Loktionov is not KHL bound next season? I do. I don't even consider this a loss.

 

I have nothing against Ruutu. I'd be estatic if they get the Ruutu who can put up 50 points. It's just that contract even with 20% taken off for a player who has 9 goals in his last 71 games. A rental is one thing, but it's a waste of that cap hit when it could be used in July for something that could help more, especially if Ruutu is now on the wrong side of his career. If Lamoriello thought Ruutu's intangibles were as important as adding an offensive player, he's fvcking senile.


Edited by TheRedStorm, 05 March 2014 - 09:20 PM.

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#231 Mike Brown

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:19 PM

Look, I've been clear with you and if you don't like it, too bad. You've set a precedent and you're going to live with it until you can form a fvcking thought and stick with it in a clear manner without it being open to interpretation each time. 

 

Answer my question.  Do you know the difference between "could have" and "was / is"?

 

 

The #canes retained 20% of Tuomo Ruutu's remaining contract in the trade with #NJDevils.

 

So it's a 3.8 million contract for us.

 

 

Nice!  That's just shy of a million dollars taken off his cap hit!


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#232 TheRedStorm

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:27 PM

Answer my question.  Do you know the difference between "could have" and "was / is"?

 

 

 

What the hell are you talking about, Brown? Jesus Christ, you are annoying.


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#233 Brandon

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:30 PM

Why? Anyone really think Loktionov is not KHL bound next season? I do. I don't even consider this a loss.

I have nothing against Ruutu. I'd be estatic if they get the Ruutu who can put up 50 points. It's just that contract even with 20% taken off for a player who has 9 goals in his last 71 games. A rental is one thing, but it's a waste of that cap hit when it could be used in July for something that could help more, especially if Ruutu is now on the wrong side of his career. If Lamoriello thought Ruutu's intangibles were as important as adding an offensive player, he's fvcking senile.

Don't get me wrong, i'm happy we got Ruutu with a reduced cap hit, but i've always been a fan of Loktionov and I think he could become a good little player for Carolina IF he doesn't bolt to the KHL, it's a fair enough point though that he could go to the KHL, especially with how DeBoer has treated him this season
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#234 CarpathianForest

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:30 PM

Why? Anyone really think Loktionov is not KHL bound next season? I do. I don't even consider this a loss.

 

I have nothing against Ruutu. I'd be estatic if they get the Ruutu who can put up 50 points. It's just that contract even with 20% taken off for a player who has 9 goals in his last 71 games. A rental is one thing, but it's a waste of that cap hit when it could be used in July for something that could help more, especially if Ruutu is now on the wrong side of his career. If Lamoriello thought Ruutu's intangibles were as important as adding an offensive player, he's fvcking senile.

 

Where are you getting this 50 points. Ruutu only scored more than 50 points twice in his NHL career and the next highest total was 44 points. He's a borderline 3rd line, average 4th line guy at the very best.


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#235 TheRedStorm

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:32 PM

Where are you getting this 50 points. Ruutu only scored more than 50 points twice in his NHL career and the next highest total was 44 points. He's a borderline 3rd line, average 4th line guy at the very best.

 

Ruutu scored 50 points twice in his career. If the Devils receive that production, i'd be ecstatic. What's difficult to understand here?


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#236 CarpathianForest

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:46 PM

Ruutu scored 50 points twice in his career. If the Devils receive that production, i'd be ecstatic. What's difficult to understand here?

 

He's played 10 seasons. That's what's difficult to understand. Besides constant injuries there's a 20% chance Ruutu reaches 50 points.


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#237 Mike Brown

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:48 PM

What the hell are you talking about, Brown? Jesus Christ, you are annoying.

 

Because you seem to think I contradicted myself when I said Bernier could possibly be a decent offensive player aka 50 point player, but then I said Ruutu is a better offensive and defensive player than Bernier.


Edited by Mike Brown, 05 March 2014 - 09:49 PM.

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#238 Neb00rs

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:53 PM

What the hell are you talking about, Brown? Jesus Christ, you are annoying.

 

Why do you feel the need to come on here and insult people and pick fights? Not good form, and certainly not good form for a new poster.

 

Not blaming you only, but this is the third one I have seen from you in two days.


Edited by Neb00rs, 05 March 2014 - 09:55 PM.

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#239 CarpathianForest

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:54 PM

Because you seem to think I contradicted myself when I said Bernier could possibly be a decent offensive player aka 50 point player, but then I said Ruutu is a better offensive and defensive player than Bernier.

 

Both are 4th liners that have stellar seasons if they reach over 35 points.


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#240 TheRedStorm

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:56 PM

Why do you feel the need to come on here and insult people and pick fights? Not good form, and certainly not good form for a new poster.

 

Why do you need to care so much what other people do that doesn't concern you? You love to play holier-then-thou and this caste system philosophy you use as leverage is not intimidating. If you don't like it, there's ignore. Use it even though it's a relatively useless feature.


Edited by TheRedStorm, 05 March 2014 - 10:20 PM.

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