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#241 Mike Brown

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:57 PM

Both are 4th liners that have stellar seasons if they reach over 35 points.

 

Rutuu is more of a 3rd line player capable of filling in on a top 6 role.  He's more ideal on the 3rd line though.  I'd argue Ruutu has a better shot at reaching 40 points than Bernier though.


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#242 TheRedStorm

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:57 PM

Because you seem to think I contradicted myself when I said Bernier could possibly be a decent offensive player aka 50 point player, but then I said Ruutu is a better offensive and defensive player than Bernier.

 

Go back and read my replies to you why i felt you did what you did, again. I'm not repeating myself so you can pad your post totals. It's bad enough i did.


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#243 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:04 PM

I refuse to judge this trade until I see how he fits our system. One teams garbage is another teams missing piece. He will not be used on the PP and isn't needed there. He plays heavy along the boards, plays physical and was very effective for Finland at the Olympics. He is coming off two 2013 hip surgery's so he may actually come into camp healthy and return to 2012 form, he already has appeared to be catching his stride. If Ruutu was completely healthy and a 40+ point player he would have cost a lot more than this.


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#244 CarpathianForest

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:11 PM

Rutuu is more of a 3rd line player capable of filling in on a top 6 role.  He's more ideal on the 3rd line though.  I'd argue Ruutu has a better shot at reaching 40 points than Bernier though.

 

It's spelled Ruutu. Not being a dick, but spell his name right before becoming his biggest cheerleader. Ruutu is a third liner only if he can stay healthy. He's slow and like Jason said he's coming off two hip surgerys. Two me that says an older and slower injury prone player added to an already old and slow Devils roster.


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#245 Mike Brown

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:24 PM

It's spelled Ruutu. Not being a dick, but spell his name right before becoming his biggest cheerleader. Ruutu is a third liner only if he can stay healthy. He's slow and like Jason said he's coming off two hip surgerys. Two me that says an older and slower injury prone player added to an already old and slow Devils roster.

 

Not being a dick, but you could use spelling lessons of your own.

 

Anyways, he may have health issues.  But it is what it is.  He can play in a top 6 role.  He may not be the biggest point producer, but he'll make the forecheck more effective with his physicality.  We won't rely solely on stick checks and interceptions to keep offensive zone pressure.


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#246 Triumph

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:35 PM

I refuse to judge this trade until I see how he fits our system. One teams garbage is another teams missing piece. He will not be used on the PP and isn't needed there. He plays heavy along the boards, plays physical and was very effective for Finland at the Olympics. He is coming off two 2013 hip surgery's so he may actually come into camp healthy and return to 2012 form, he already has appeared to be catching his stride. If Ruutu was completely healthy and a 40+ point player he would have cost a lot more than this.

 

I think he'll fit the system like a glove.  I just think that when you get down to whether or not a player will fit your system, you can't outlay $4M in the next two years for this sort of player, not when you have other needs.


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#247 CarpathianForest

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:37 PM

I certainly think he'll improve puck possession, but we're already a good puck possession team. I just can't see how he adds any scoring.


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#248 thecoffeecake

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:49 PM

Fayne, a pick and a prospect could have brought back something decent.

 

 

Giving up Fayne, a pick, and a prospect would have been the most absurd, sh!t-for-brains thing Lou could've done. You must be on drugs.
 


Edited by thecoffeecake, 05 March 2014 - 10:51 PM.

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#249 Devilsfan118

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:54 PM

Giving up Fayne, a pick, and a prospect would have been the most absurd, sh!t-for-brains thing Lou could've done. You must be on drugs.


How do you figure? UFA, midlevel prospect and a 2nd/3rd could've gotten something significant back.

That doesn't seem absurd at all.

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#250 Mike Brown

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:00 PM

How do you figure? UFA, midlevel prospect and a 2nd/3rd could've gotten something significant back.

That doesn't seem absurd at all.

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Especially with the market today.  I'm still laughing at the Vanek trade.


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#251 thecoffeecake

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:02 PM

Not in his world. I told you before, you do not understand his style. If you do, then you'd understand where the half dozen or so people who have said the same exact things i've said are coming from.

I understand his style. He's pissed me off plenty. But, like I've said before. I'm not going to sh!t on him because it's become the fashionable thing to do. You are just going out of you're way to catch him making contradictory arguments, which he has done before, but here he has not. You are the one using semantics, trying to tell him what he has said, or what his argument has been.

 

Again. One last time. Saying that Steve Bernier COULD or that he COULD SEE Steve Bernier scoring fifty points, and then saying right now, Tuomo Ruutu IS better than Steve Bernier are two totally different ideas. I can't be any clearer.


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#252 Devilsfan118

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:04 PM

Especially with the market today. I'm still laughing at the Vanek trade.

Exactly, if that trade was indicative of the market for forwards it sure seems like SOMEONE with more scoring touch than Rutuu could've been acquired.

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Edited by Devilsfan118, 05 March 2014 - 11:05 PM.

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#253 thecoffeecake

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:09 PM

How do you figure? UFA, midlevel prospect and a 2nd/3rd could've gotten something significant back.

That doesn't seem absurd at all.

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I'm not ready to give up a top pairing defensman in his mid twenties, a draft pick in the top three rounds that we desperately need, and a prospect for a thirty year old scorer who probably wont work in our system, wants too much money, and who would probably walk at the end of his contract. No thank you. I think we're thin enough in the prospects/picks department. We're a better team keeping Fayne and future assets.

 

Besides, how much more satisfying is when the core of the team is a group of homegrown guys who have been in the black and red from day one?


Edited by thecoffeecake, 05 March 2014 - 11:11 PM.

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#254 Daniel

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:09 PM

I think he'll fit the system like a glove.  I just think that when you get down to whether or not a player will fit your system, you can't outlay $4M in the next two years for this sort of player, not when you have other needs.

 

What other needs does his cap hit prevent the Devils from attempting to fulfill?  If it's just the idea that he creates a logjam, his salary is neither here nor there.  And unless he turns into a real dumpster fire next year, he is moveable. 


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#255 Devilsfan118

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:13 PM

I'm not ready to give up a top pairing defensman in his mid twenties, a draft pick in the top three rounds that we desperately need, and a prospect for a thirty year old scorer who probably wont work in our system, wants too much money, and who would probably walk at the end of his contract. No thank you. I think we're thin enough in the prospects/picks department. We're a better team keeping Fayne and future assets.

 

Fair enough, I get what you're saying.  We'll just have to agree to disagree - I definitely like Fayne as well (although I don't think he's a top pairing defenseman) but SOMEONE's gotta go, and I don't know if he's re-signed after this year anyway.  I admittedly don't know the cap situation going forward off the top of my head, but with 3.8m additional cap space locked up in Tutuu next year who knows if Fayne's even affordable.

 

And I'm not necessarily talking about Vanek - maybe Moulson, a Stafford-type player, who knows.  Pure speculation on my part obviously.


Edited by Devilsfan118, 05 March 2014 - 11:14 PM.

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#256 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:15 PM

I certainly think he'll improve puck possession, but we're already a good puck possession team. I just can't see how he adds any scoring.

 

Trickle down effect should happen. Ruutu is an upgrade offensively over Zubrus I think. Zubrus is an upgrade overall to Loktionov on the 3rd line as well. NJ doesn't need much more scoring. They are still an elite team defensively and along the boards. Tuomo is a very good at deflecting pucks and is 8 for 23 in shootouts so it is at least another option.


Edited by Jas0nMacIsaac, 05 March 2014 - 11:24 PM.

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#257 CarpathianForest

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:20 PM

What other needs does his cap hit prevent the Devils from attempting to fulfill?  If it's just the idea that he creates a logjam, his salary is neither here nor there.  And unless he turns into a real dumpster fire next year, he is moveable. 

 

Yeah except he's another older player with a history of injuries and very little upside. If he doesn't work out you might be able to get a late round pick.

 

In response to CoffeeCake:

Clearing out Fayne takes one potential UFA off the books. He's kind of middle of the pack. He's not as valuable as Greene or some of the younger players but he's not as useless as Volch and Sal. So in my mind he's expendable. As far as prospects we're not talking Reid Boucher, but we are stacked on D prospects, we can afford to move a future player with possible NHL potential to address contemporary concerns. Finally, a 3rd or 4th round pick doesn't always equal a Datsyuk or Zetterberg. If you move all three of those things it's possible you can get a Moulson or Vanek out of the deal which addresses the scoring issues and even possibly get a late round pick in a later draft year.


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#258 Daniel

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:22 PM

Yeah except he's another older player with a history of injuries and very little upside. If he doesn't work out you might be able to get a late round pick.

 

 

Ok, fine.  We didn't give up a ton to get him. 


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#259 CarpathianForest

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:24 PM

Trickle down effect should happen. Ruutu is an upgrade offensively over Zubrus I think. Zubrus is an upgrade overall to Loktionov on the 3rd line as well. NJ doesn't need much more scoring. They are still an elite team defensively and along the boards.

 

They are a top possession and defensive team, but that doesn't translate to goal scoring. How many 1-0, 2-1 type games have we lost because no one is shooting the puck. Ruutu's shots per game is only half a point more than Loktionov's. In my mind that's not going to cut it.


Ok, fine.  We didn't give up a ton to get him. 

 

You're right. We didn't give up a ton to get him. However, we didn't need his type of player in the first place.


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#260 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:49 PM

They are a top possession and defensive team, but that doesn't translate to goal scoring. How many 1-0, 2-1 type games have we lost because no one is shooting the puck. Ruutu's shots per game is only half a point more than Loktionov's. In my mind that's not going to cut it.


 

You're right. We didn't give up a ton to get him. However, we didn't need his type of player in the first place.

When healthy he is a 2 shots per game type player and generally has a high sh% because most shots are in close. In 20 games with Zajac and Jagr It wouldn't surprise me if he had 5 goals...he isn't a 6% shooter, that is for sure.


Edited by Jas0nMacIsaac, 05 March 2014 - 11:50 PM.

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