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#121 NJDevs4978

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 10:56 PM

And Steve Mason's put up 930 SV%'s over longer stretches than Marty's gotten that scoring for him. Give me a break. There's no reason because it's a fluke 

 

It's easy to dismiss everything as a fluke.  For two years I've been hearing the Leafs are a fluke cause of their advanced stats, and yet they keep winning.  Last year and most of this year I heard the Devils' lack of goalscoring was a fluke.  What's the statute of limitations on whether it's a fluke...40 games, 60?  100?  Or is it just a fluke indefinitely?


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#122 devilsrule33

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 11:10 PM

It's easy to dismiss everything as a fluke.  For two years I've been hearing the Leafs are a fluke cause of their advanced stats, and yet they keep winning.  Last year and most of this year I heard the Devils' lack of goalscoring was a fluke.  What's the statute of limitations on whether it's a fluke...40 games, 60?  100?  Or is it just a fluke indefinitely?

 

Well how about this...Brodeur has been awful for 3 and a half seasons. The Devils have been in a playoff spot for 10% of that time. The winning with him is a fluke.

 

The thing about the Leafs...it helps when you have one of the best goalies in the NHL this season in Bernier.


Edited by devilsrule33, 11 March 2014 - 11:10 PM.

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#123 NJDevs4978

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 11:15 PM

Well how about this...Brodeur has been awful for 3 and a half seasons. The Devils have been in a playoff spot for 10% of that time. The winning with him is a fluke.

 

The thing about the Leafs...it helps when you have one of the best goalies in the NHL this season in Bernier.

 

Except that they probably make the playoffs last year if Hedberg or the reclamation offense wasn't both beyond awful.  And three years ago was a total team meltdown in the first half.

 

You can't have the offense scoring 3+ goals a game for Brodeur and 1.5 goals a game for Cory continue indefinitely and keep dismissing it as a fluke.  There has to be 'something' there.  Especially when you see some of the efforts they put up for Cory compared to the efforts they usually put up for Marty.


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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#124 Neb00rs

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 11:40 PM

It's easy to dismiss everything as a fluke.  For two years I've been hearing the Leafs are a fluke cause of their advanced stats, and yet they keep winning.  Last year and most of this year I heard the Devils' lack of goalscoring was a fluke.  What's the statute of limitations on whether it's a fluke...40 games, 60?  100?  Or is it just a fluke indefinitely?

 

Yup. At some point, winning becomes winning.


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#125 Devils Pride 26

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 11:46 PM

Except that they probably make the playoffs last year if Hedberg or the reclamation offense wasn't both beyond awful. And three years ago was a total team meltdown in the first half.

You can't have the offense scoring 3+ goals a game for Brodeur and 1.5 goals a game for Cory continue indefinitely and keep dismissing it as a fluke. There has to be 'something' there. Especially when you see some of the efforts they put up for Cory compared to the efforts they usually put up for Marty.

Sometimes teams playing in front of an inferior goalie are all jacked up to play well, knowing if they have a sh!t game they are going to get crushed. Maybe they feel the pressure when playing with Brodeur and relax knowing Cory is going to make saves.

That's all I got other than a flat out mutiny which I could never imagine
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#126 Triumph

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:10 AM

Except that they probably make the playoffs last year if Hedberg or the reclamation offense wasn't both beyond awful.  And three years ago was a total team meltdown in the first half.

 

You can't have the offense scoring 3+ goals a game for Brodeur and 1.5 goals a game for Cory continue indefinitely and keep dismissing it as a fluke.  There has to be 'something' there.  Especially when you see some of the efforts they put up for Cory compared to the efforts they usually put up for Marty.

 

No, there doesn't.  That's just it.  There doesn't have to be anything to it.  Because there isn't.


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#127 Triumph

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:13 AM

Anyway the Leafs are still bad, they get elite goaltending from Bernier and their shootout record is 9-4 - take away shootouts from New Jersey and Toronto, here's their records:  

 

Toronto:  26-24-4

New Jersey:  29-24-5

 

Funny how New Jersey looks like the better team - and Toronto doesn't even start a horrible goalie for half their games.


Edited by Triumph, 12 March 2014 - 12:17 AM.

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#128 David Puddy

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 02:24 AM

Yup. At some point, winning becomes winning.

At some point, advanced stats advocates need to realize that what they write off as "luck" is a failure to accurately model what it takes to win a hockey game.


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#129 Marshall

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 03:46 AM

You can't have the offense scoring 3+ goals a game for Brodeur and 1.5 goals a game for Cory continue indefinitely and keep dismissing it as a fluke.  There has to be 'something' there.  Especially when you see some of the efforts they put up for Cory compared to the efforts they usually put up for Marty.

 

Devils only scored two for Marty so I guess it's not a thing anymore. 

 

Devils started Schneider wearing Marty's equipment. It's quite obvious.


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#130 Mike Brown

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 03:50 AM

The two Florida teams are sitting ducks.  4 points or bust for the Devils this weekend.


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#131 Marshall

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 04:00 AM

Devils GF/G with Marty last 3 seasons:

2011/12: 2.32

2011/12 playoffs: 2.45

2012/2013: 2.37

 

The above sample is 112 games.

 

2013/14: 2.87 (32 games).

 

Hedberg

2011/12: 2.77 (27 GP, if only we'd started him we'd won the Cup EZ-mode...teams plays so hard for him man! They liked him way more than Marty!)

2012/13: 1.73 (19 GP, I guess he boned someone's wife or something because nobody liked him anymore? They scored half a goal more for Marty!)

 

It's a fluke. If not, then this team is made up of some of the most unprofessional athletes I've ever seen, who start 'competing harder' for Marty because he's old, slow, bad or whatever but couldn't get their sh!t together and score half a goal more per game to win the Cup in 2012. Do you think that sounds reasonable?

 

It. Is. A. Fluke. It's 30 games. I bet you could find runs and streaks like this for many teams/goalies.


Edited by Marshall, 12 March 2014 - 04:01 AM.

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#132 moustic

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 04:15 AM

You can't just have a break and "admit" that Marty was good enough this last game... He was "good enough" to help the teams his last 4 games... That sound good to me.

Mission is being in Playoff not be sure being right about Hoooow teeeeerrrrrible marty is now.

 

I don't care who is between the pipe as long as we win games... I want this team being in playoff. No one want this team in 7g serie against them... Everyone can beat us to be fair... BUT no one want to play us for sure ! 

 

Marty makes some stellar save last night, Cory is the better goalie this year and obviously for more years to go... But we don't freaky care at this point of the season... 

 

We won last night ! Now focus on this weekend... 4 points is an obligation ! I don't care who will play better or who will play all together... As i don't care who will score, who will assist, who will make the critical play... I want wins ! 

 

(but feel free to discuss for hours how bad Marty is now... If it's that important for you... Go ahead) 


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#133 MadDog2020

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:04 AM

If the Devils make the playoffs, Jagr should get Hart consideration. Seriously. Take Jagr away and we're dropping about 25 spots in the draft with that 30th pick.


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#134 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:22 AM

Yeah, Brodeur played well - never had me comfortable but I imagine that ship has sailed for him permanently.  Got a veteran's break on that final call too - it's a defensible call but probably wrong.  Ah well, Flyers got more than their share of calls in that playoff series 4 years ago.

 

3rd period was a classic low-event NJ 3rd period, got the break and away they went. 

 

That's pretty much where I am with Marty now.  I can't help it, every time I see a shot coming his way I'm pretty nervous these days. 

 

Anyway, 4-0 in his last four with 9 GA on 106 shots (.915 save%).  That's probably as good as we should hope to get from Marty over small samples...I can't ask somone who's been a .901 guy over 60 games or so and is almost 42 to do much better.  What's unbelievable is, just like that, 700 wins is becoming a realistic total for him...even if he only wins a couple more this year (who know how many more starts he gets this year...I'm not going to even attempt to break down who gets how many starts at this point), he'd only need 12 next year to do it.  He could wind up needing 10 or less, if everything keeps aligning for him the way it has been, and the Devils can keep finding ways to win for him. 

 

Keeping that in mind, though he's never come out and said anything about 700 wins being important to him, if he's that close and still thinks he's got something (we know the answer to this one), that probably makes his decision to play again next season that much easier for him.  And last night and this 4-0 "burst" aside, I still think that 700th win should definitely not come here.   


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[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#135 NJDevs4978

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:32 AM

It. Is. A. Fluke. It's 30 games. I bet you could find runs and streaks like this for many teams/goalies.

 

Sixty five-games.  It's not just that they score for Marty, they don't for the other guy - and they don't score for him to a historically low level.  

 

To a degree the organization's become overly dependent on Marty's puckhandling style, to the point where goalies like Cory and Hedberg who shouldn't even try to play the puck keep trying to play the puck.  Not that that fully explains a 1+ goal difference in production...but it's a piece of the puzzle.  

 

It's also a cop-out to say Marty just wins and the other guy doesn't because the other guy won when he was in Vancouver and that doesn't explain why the other eighteen play much better for one than the other.


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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#136 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:48 AM

Sixty five-games.  It's not just that they score for Marty, they don't for the other guy - and they don't score for him to a historically low level.  

 

To a degree the organization's become overly dependent on Marty's puckhandling style, to the point where goalies like Cory and Hedberg who shouldn't even try to play the puck keep trying to play the puck.  Not that that fully explains a 1+ goal difference in production...but it's a piece of the puzzle.  

 

It's also a cop-out to say Marty just wins and the other guy doesn't because the other guy won when he was in Vancouver and that doesn't explain why the other eighteen play much better for one than the other.

 

Not like this has been historically true though.  In 2010-11 and 2011-12 Hedberg went 32-19-4 in his games (about a 2.30 GAA over that time), while Marty went 54-47-7 (about 2.42 or so).  You can argue that Hedberg's aging overnight and stinking up the joint horribly in 2012-13 contributed to his poor record against Marty's as much as anything else. 

 

This year, I do think it's a fluke, and doesn't have that much to do with either goalie.  I understand the reasons to try to find out WHY, because on the surface it's so damned puzzling, probably more to Cory than anyone else, but I don't think any real valid reasons exist.   


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#137 NJDevs4978

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:55 AM

Those records are actually indiciative of their GAA though...Hedberg has a slightly better GAA and win percentage.

 

I do think there was a noticeable difference between the offense in Marty's and Hedberg's starts last year in Marty's favor though, even with Kovy's absence coming when Marty was back.


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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#138 NJDevs4978

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:12 AM

btw to expound on that, the Devils have scored 65 goals in 33 Cory starts this year (slightly under 2 a game, up from what it's been most of the season), while they've scored 98 goals in 32 Marty starts (just over 3 a game).  

 

Last year they scored 72 goals in 29 Marty starts (about 2.5 per game), while they scored 40 goals in 19 Moose starts (barely over 2 per game)...and bear in mind Kovy missed practically all of his games with Marty in net too - and the offense as a whole suffered at that point.  There's gotta be something to this Marty helps the offense meme, although it shouldn't exist to the degree it has the last two seasons.


Edited by NJDevs4978, 12 March 2014 - 07:17 AM.

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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#139 EdgeControl

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:32 AM

 

I didn't in any way feel threatened during the final few minutes that the Flyers were gonna score.  It would have taken perfect play execution for them to score the tying goal.  The Devils were hard on the puck, and that was the key.  They didn't let Philly cycle the puck with ease.

REALLY??even though they DID SCORE LOL. the puck was trickling between martys pads! because the flyers were finding the open man and owning zajac on the FOs, yet we kept icing it. dont know how anyone could not feel threatened, jagr sure did and said so in the post game


Edited by EdgeControl, 12 March 2014 - 07:57 AM.

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#140 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:40 AM

I didn't in any way feel threatened during the final few minutes that the Flyers were gonna score.  It would have taken perfect play execution for them to score the tying goal.  The Devils were hard on the puck, and that was the key.  They didn't let Philly cycle the puck with ease.

 

C'mon...you make it sound like the Devils had them all the way.  Far from it.  Not too mention if that no-goal call had happened to the Devils, I doubt most people on here would've been saying "Well, can't really argue about it, it was the right call."  Fans would've been plenty pissed.

 

But it's a win against a big opponent and it wasn't a 3-pointer, so I'll happily take it.


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!




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