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GDT: Devils @ Phailures 7:00 PM


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#141 Marshall

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:46 AM

It's a fluke, like NHL teams having worse power plays on odd numbered days.


Edited by Marshall, 12 March 2014 - 07:46 AM.

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#142 devilsrule33

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 08:35 AM

C'mon...you make it sound like the Devils had them all the way.  Far from it.  Not too mention if that no-goal call had happened to the Devils, I doubt most people on here would've been saying "Well, can't really argue about it, it was the right call."  Fans would've been plenty pissed.

 

But it's a win against a big opponent and it wasn't a 3-pointer, so I'll happily take it.

 

I think Devils got away with one. Just part of Brodeur's lucky season! The ref wasn't in a great spot and from his angle, I think he thought Brodeur froze the puck and got crushed by Hartnell. and the puck went in. But the replay shows that Marty missed it, and the puck was loose the entire time. The ref looked like he wanted to cry on a faceoff in the last 30 second. It's bang/bang.

 

Easier to appreciate how hard the refs job is when the call goes your way. It seems that call, like most, is not black and white. Anyway, I do enjoy that fans will argue that call to the death. Like you said, if you step back and imagine that was other way around, every Devils fan would be going insane and calling it an NHL conspiracy.


Edited by devilsrule33, 12 March 2014 - 09:12 AM.

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#143 '7'

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 08:47 AM

That probably should've been a goal, but you know too much fluky/crazy crap has gone against us over the past 2 years that we absolutely earned that break.


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#144 dmann422

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:06 AM

By my reading of the rule it was the correct call, so I won't call it luck.

"If an attacking player initiates contact with a goalkeeper, incidental or otherwise, while the goalkeeper is in his goal crease, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed."

Seems pretty black and white... I guess the only legit argument you can make is if volchenkov forced hartnell into brodeur, but on the one replay I saw I didn't see that at all. And even if he did hartnell still needs to make a reasonable effort to avoid the contact.
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#145 EdgeControl

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:18 AM

By my reading of the rule it was the correct call, so I won't call it luck.

"If an attacking player initiates contact with a goalkeeper, incidental or otherwise, while the goalkeeper is in his goal crease, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed."

Seems pretty black and white... I guess the only legit argument you can make is if volchenkov forced hartnell into brodeur, but on the one replay I saw I didn't see that at all. And even if he did hartnell still needs to make a reasonable effort to avoid the contact.

I havent seen replays beyond what the game showed last night, but it looked like the puck was already going in (not yet in but thru the pads) THEN contact was made. thats where the luck came in. the contact nullified it and sort of saved us.  yes the contact was a correct call, but if it didnt happen it MAY have been a goal. BUT I DONT GIVE A CR@P LOL, im enjoying a possible 4 pt swing


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#146 Devils731

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:31 AM

I havent seen replays beyond what the game showed last night, but it looked like the puck was already going in (not yet in but thru the pads) THEN contact was made. thats where the luck came in. the contact nullified it and sort of saved us. yes the contact was a correct call, but if it didnt happen it MAY have been a goal. BUT I DONT GIVE A CR@P LOL, im enjoying a possible 4 pt swing


The first save was made before the contact. Then Hartnell kicks the puck towards the goal and smashes into Marty at about the same time.

This was a pretty textbook incidental contact call, IMO. Marty was given no real opportunity to make a play on the puck.
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#147 dmann422

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:32 AM

I havent seen replays beyond what the game showed last night, but it looked like the puck was already going in (not yet in but thru the pads) THEN contact was made. thats where the luck came in. the contact nullified it and sort of saved us. yes the contact was a correct call, but if it didnt happen it MAY have been a goal. BUT I DONT GIVE A CR@P LOL, im enjoying a possible 4 pt swing

just looked at the replay again- Marty makes the save, the puck bounces to hartnell, goes off his skate and he knocks brodeur while the puck was under him. I really think it should not have been a goal, even with my homer glasses off. Honestly if it was eligible and went to review I think it would have been waived off as being kicked in. And I think hartnell knew it because he didn't complain that much and he's usually one to complain.

Oddly the nhl stated the goal was waived off based in rule 78.5, which prevents the goalie from being pushed over the goal line after the save, which I don't think was the case but wtv they got it right IMO.

And yes I'll take any points we can get, and the tears of flyer fans are always sweet.
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#148 Devs4LordStanley

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:38 AM

not a good hockey goal lmao. that's very descriptive...

 

nice tight D equates to less scoring...interesting. a w is a w..


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#149 Martyisth3b3st

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:07 AM

C'mon...you make it sound like the Devils had them all the way. Far from it. Not too mention if that no-goal call had happened to the Devils, I doubt most people on here would've been saying "Well, can't really argue about it, it was the right call." Fans would've been plenty pissed.

But it's a win against a big opponent and it wasn't a 3-pointer, so I'll happily take it.


In that game, I found out that:

I clearly don't understanding "icing", because when it hits a Flyer on it's way in the zone and the GOALIE plays the puck, apparently that still counts.

You're allowed to use a VIDEO REVIEW to "reverse" a penalty call. Who knew!?

You talk to Toronto even though it's pretty cut and dry that it was a non-reviewable play.

It was one of the most pathetic refereed games I've ever seen, not just that goal.
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#150 '7'

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:13 AM

The worst call was that hook...Ruutu on Shenn I believe. Total joke call


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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
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#151 '7'

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:19 AM

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looking at it again, he doesn't seem to receive much of a shove from Volchenkov. If anything he knocks Volch over and it's his contact with Brodeur that prevents Brodeur from having a reasonable shot at making that save. It's a good no goal.


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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
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#152 lucifer91

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:24 AM

If there is no contact at all there is no goal
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#153 dmann422

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:25 AM

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looking at it again, he doesn't seem to receive much of a shove from Volchenkov. If anything he knocks Volch over and it's his contact with Brodeur that prevents Brodeur from having a reasonable shot at making that save. It's a good no goal.

thanks for the gifs- the overhead view is what does it for me, IMO it's clear that the puck would not have gone in if hartnell didn't knock brodeur.
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#154 LucifersDog

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:25 AM

Devils got a gift from the refs. That tying goal was good. Volchenkov knocked hartnell into Marty. There was NO review done in Toronto, not a reviewable play. Flyers score snd tie but refs screw up and Devils get a break.
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#155 Devils731

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:30 AM

Devils got a gift from the refs. That tying goal was good. Volchenkov knocked hartnell into Marty. There was NO review done in Toronto, not a reviewable play. Flyers score snd tie but refs screw up and Devils get a break.

 

Volch barely touches Hartnell, who makes no effort to avoid contract with the goalie, so it's a bad goal.

 

Also, Hartnell kicked the puck in, also making it a bad goal.

 

So there are 2 pretty big reasons why that goal shouldn't count, definitely not a gift.


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Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

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#156 Triumph

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:47 AM

Sixty five-games.  It's not just that they score for Marty, they don't for the other guy - and they don't score for him to a historically low level.  

 

To a degree the organization's become overly dependent on Marty's puckhandling style, to the point where goalies like Cory and Hedberg who shouldn't even try to play the puck keep trying to play the puck.  Not that that fully explains a 1+ goal difference in production...but it's a piece of the puzzle.  

 

It's also a cop-out to say Marty just wins and the other guy doesn't because the other guy won when he was in Vancouver and that doesn't explain why the other eighteen play much better for one than the other.

 

65 games is nothing.  It's 32 for each guy.  This sort of thing happens in baseball all the time - take Nolan Ryan's famous 1987 season where he led the league in ERA but was 8-16.  There was a guy on his team who gave up literally double the runs he did and was 8-17.  Does that make any sense?  Of course not.  People think just because something is highly unlikely that there has to be a cause, but there is not.  Brodeur's puck handling has gotten NJ an extra goal here or there but is not worth anywhere close to what people think it is.


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#157 EdgeControl

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:53 AM

My0WIUz.gif

 

FZBaQpn.gif

 

looking at it again, he doesn't seem to receive much of a shove from Volchenkov. If anything he knocks Volch over and it's his contact with Brodeur that prevents Brodeur from having a reasonable shot at making that save. It's a good no goal.

that a good shot from above. I retract my lucky comment.  great call, only good call of the game!!  btw hows carters face??


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#158 Neb00rs

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:58 AM

The silliest part of all the Brodeur hate is that after Marty plays a good game, NO ONE is saying that Cory shouldn't play or that Marty is better. Yet, the haters still feel the need to come on and bash Marty and defend themselves as if they are being attacked. Sounds like nothing more than a complex in their own heads.

 

No, there doesn't.  That's just it.  There doesn't have to be anything to it.  Because there isn't.

 

Making such an absolute statement does not demonstrate a mastery of numbers but an ignorance of numbers. Numbers can perhaps tell everything, but there is an infinite amount of numerical qualities in life that we have not yet figured out how to measure, let alone in ice hockey. To say "there isn't" is to say "I know all the factors and I've added them up" and that more than anything is what makes your statement so weak.

 

At some point, advanced stats advocates need to realize that what they write off as "luck" is a failure to accurately model what it takes to win a hockey game.

 

Very well put.

 

Devils only scored two for Marty so I guess it's not a thing anymore. 

 

Devils started Schneider wearing Marty's equipment. It's quite obvious.

 

Please don't attack Marshall for this, he isn't arguing that Marty is better, he is satirizing the pure insanity that has become this board. There, ya'll can relax.

 

You can't just have a break and "admit" that Marty was good enough this last game... He was "good enough" to help the teams his last 4 games... That sound good to me.

Mission is being in Playoff not be sure being right about Hoooow teeeeerrrrrible marty is now.

 

I don't care who is between the pipe as long as we win games... I want this team being in playoff. No one want this team in 7g serie against them... Everyone can beat us to be fair... BUT no one want to play us for sure ! 

 

Marty makes some stellar save last night, Cory is the better goalie this year and obviously for more years to go... But we don't freaky care at this point of the season... 

 

We won last night ! Now focus on this weekend... 4 points is an obligation ! I don't care who will play better or who will play all together... As i don't care who will score, who will assist, who will make the critical play... I want wins ! 

 

(but feel free to discuss for hours how bad Marty is now... If it's that important for you... Go ahead) 

 

Perfectly stated.


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#159 Neb00rs

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:08 AM

Volch barely touches Hartnell, who makes no effort to avoid contract with the goalie, so it's a bad goal.

 

Also, Hartnell kicked the puck in, also making it a bad goal.

 

So there are 2 pretty big reasons why that goal shouldn't count, definitely not a gift.

 

Lol, I'm pretty sure Volch was on his back when Hartnell hit Marty. To me the central reason the goal shouldn't count is that the puck was NOT traveling in towards the net before Hartnell knocks into Brodeur. Marty saves the puck, then with relatively ambiguous contact between Volch and Hartnell, Hartnell knocks Brodeur back into the crease and the puck into the net.


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#160 MantaRay

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:12 AM

The silliest part of all the Brodeur hate is that after Marty plays a good game, NO ONE is saying that Cory shouldn't play or that Marty is better. Yet, the haters still feel the need to come on and bash Marty and defend themselves as if they are being attacked. Sounds like nothing more than a complex in their own heads.

 

 

AMEN


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