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GDT: Devils @ Phailures 7:00 PM


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#161 LucifersDog

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:13 AM

Volch barely touches Hartnell, who makes no effort to avoid contract with the goalie, so it's a bad goal.

 

Also, Hartnell kicked the puck in, also making it a bad goal.

 

So there are 2 pretty big reasons why that goal shouldn't count, definitely not a gift.

 

As you stated Volchenkov does touch him, can't be only a little bit pregnant.

You can see if Hartnell kicked it but if he did  it was a result of being pushed by Volchenkov

Hartnell was definitely trying to move out of the net after the push, you csn see him heading down ice.

 

Score Philly however bad call not counted. I want the Devils to win so I say they got a break.


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#162 Devils731

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:23 AM

As you stated Volchenkov does touch him, can't be only a little bit pregnant.
You can see if Hartnell kicked it but if he did it was a result of being pushed by Volchenkov
Hartnell was definitely trying to move out of the net after the push, you csn see him heading down ice.

Score Philly however bad call not counted. I want the Devils to win so I say they got a break.


All body checks are now charges because you can't be slightly moving. :lol: what a misuse of a phrase you used.

So anytime a player has contact as they charge the net they are free to kick the puck on purpose and push the goalie, to my eyes, on purpose?

I can only imagine you're playing Devils advocate since your position is so off base, as are your arguments.
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#163 Triumph

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:25 AM

The silliest part of all the Brodeur hate is that after Marty plays a good game, NO ONE is saying that Cory shouldn't play or that Marty is better. Yet, the haters still feel the need to come on and bash Marty and defend themselves as if they are being attacked. Sounds like nothing more than a complex in their own heads.

 

I heard a lot of malarkey about the Leafs not being a bad team.  They are a bad team getting great goaltending and lots of shootout luck.  I heard the same old story about how Brodeur just wins games.  He had a solid game last night - though I'd like to point out that it seemed the Flyers missed an awful lot of shots - and if he can play like that nightly the team will be okay.  I don't think he can do that, but he's been okay in the last 4 games.

 

 

Making such an absolute statement does not demonstrate a mastery of numbers but an ignorance of numbers. Numbers can perhaps tell everything, but there is an infinite amount of numerical qualities in life that we have not yet figured out how to measure, let alone in ice hockey. To say "there isn't" is to say "I know all the factors and I've added them up" and that more than anything is what makes your statement so weak.

 

Okay, so put your money where your mouth is.  Brodeur from now forward will continue to get the same goal support that he has, Schneider will continue to get the goal support he has.  It's very simple, and it's across all sports - it doesn't make any sense to assign responsiblity for something to someone that appears to have no responsibility for a particular thing.  Sometimes the wildly improbable happens.  There does not have to be a cause for it.  Especially not in a game like hockey which is riddled with chance events - bounces of the puck determine so often whether a play will result in a goal or not.


Edited by Triumph, 12 March 2014 - 11:26 AM.

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#164 ThreeCups

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:43 AM

All I can say is, thank you Marty, thank you Jagr

 

DEVILS WIN

 

 

On to Florida...


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#165 2ELIAS6

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:44 AM

hopefully both florida teams are no issue.. I would especially hate to waste a loss on the panthers
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#166 devlman

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:48 AM

I heard a lot of malarkey about the Leafs not being a bad team.  They are a bad team getting great goaltending and lots of shootout luck.  I heard the same old story about how Brodeur just wins games.  He had a solid game last night - though I'd like to point out that it seemed the Flyers missed an awful lot of shots - and if he can play like that nightly the team will be okay.  I don't think he can do that, but he's been okay in the last 4 games.

 

 

 

I'm sorry for interjecting, but theyre sitting at 78 points. They have overachieved due to goaltending but to call them a "bad" team is just silly when theyre second in the division in mid-March. You spewed the same nonsense about the rangers in 2012 all season-long, and yet they came a couple games from the SCF. "bad" is not the word you are looking for.


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#167 Triumph

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 11:55 AM

I'm sorry for interjecting, but theyre sitting at 78 points. They have overachieved due to goaltending but to call them a "bad" team is just silly when theyre second in the division in mid-March. You spewed the same nonsense about the rangers in 2012 all season-long, and yet they came a couple games from the SCF. "bad" is not the word you are looking for.

 

The Leafs have a -12 goal differential outside of shootouts.  Sometimes teams with negative goal differential sneak into the playoffs, that doesn't make them good teams.

 

The Leafs are an insane 16-4-8 in one goal games.


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#168 David Puddy

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:08 PM

By my reading of the rule it was the correct call, so I won't call it luck.

"If an attacking player initiates contact with a goalkeeper, incidental or otherwise, while the goalkeeper is in his goal crease, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed."

Seems pretty black and white... I guess the only legit argument you can make is if volchenkov forced hartnell into brodeur, but on the one replay I saw I didn't see that at all. And even if he did hartnell still needs to make a reasonable effort to avoid the contact.

 

That's not the rule that should be applied. A different part of that rule (78.5) also says a goal should be disallowed "(v)  When an attacking player has interfered with a goalkeeper in his goal crease." Also see 69.1, the goalie interference rule.


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#169 devlman

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:13 PM

The Leafs have a -12 goal differential outside of shootouts.  Sometimes teams with negative goal differential sneak into the playoffs, that doesn't make them good teams.

 

The Leafs are an insane 16-4-8 in one goal games.

 

No doubt theyve been fortunate. But this late in the game its a far cry from being a 'bad' team. Getting into shootouts the amount of times they do suggests they find ways to compete in games.


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#170 MantaRay

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:19 PM

I'm sorry for interjecting, but theyre sitting at 78 points. They have overachieved due to goaltending but to call them a "bad" team is just silly when theyre second in the division in mid-March. You spewed the same nonsense about the rangers in 2012 all season-long, and yet they came a couple games from the SCF. "bad" is not the word you are looking for.

 

Agree


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#171 Triumph

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:28 PM

No doubt theyve been fortunate. But this late in the game its a far cry from being a 'bad' team. Getting into shootouts the amount of times they do suggests they find ways to compete in games.

 

Cool, well when they put the shootout in the playoffs, I guess the Leafs'll be really good.

 

At best the Leafs are mediocre.

 

As for the Rangers in 2012, they got immediately better when they brought up Carl Hagelin and became merely a mediocre team outside of Lundqvist at that point.  Sometimes mediocrity wins.


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#172 Mike Brown

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:46 PM

C'mon...you make it sound like the Devils had them all the way.  Far from it.  Not too mention if that no-goal call had happened to the Devils, I doubt most people on here would've been saying "Well, can't really argue about it, it was the right call."  Fans would've been plenty pissed.

 

But it's a win against a big opponent and it wasn't a 3-pointer, so I'll happily take it.

 

You gotta stop with this "being in people's" head nonsense.  I for one would have definitely said that should have clearly been a no goal.  Reading the responses on the Flyers board on HF, many feel it was the correct call.  You seriously don't give Devils fans enough credit here that if the roles were reversed we would be bitching about the call.  I don't believe that for a second.  We're a rational group despite the fact we tend to be immature.

 

Anyways, from watching that game, I didn't notice any real good scoring chance the Flyers had.  As I said, that 3rd period was a defensive clinic, and Marty never had to make any really hard saves.  The only hard save he did have to make was that glove save through a screen of like 4 guys.  I personally believe the Flyers never had as many shots as they were credited with last night.  It definitely only felt like 25 at most.  Flyers also had 6 powerplays.  And some of those were gifts from the refs.


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#173 NJDevs4978

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:56 PM

fwiw the Rangers thought so much of their team in '12 they immediately started remaking it (Gaborik/Dubinsky/Anisimov out, Nash, etc in).
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#174 dmann422

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:56 PM

That's not the rule that should be applied. A different part of that rule (78.5) also says a goal should be disallowed "(v) When an attacking player has interfered with a goalkeeper in his goal crease." Also see 69.1, the goalie interference rule.

right, I posted later on that rule 78.5 was applied, but the nhl came out and said it was disallowed under 78.5 (ix), which is the goalie getting pushed into the net while making the save. I don't think this was the case but it's what the referee ruled on the ice. He was wrong in what rule he applied but it was the correct result either way.

What I quoted was 69.3, which is what I believed should have been the rule enforced.

Edited by dmann422, 12 March 2014 - 01:57 PM.

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#175 devlman

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 02:05 PM

Cool, well when they put the shootout in the playoffs, I guess the Leafs'll be really good.

At best the Leafs are mediocre.

As for the Rangers in 2012, they got immediately better when they brought up Carl Hagelin and became merely a mediocre team outside of Lundqvist at that point. Sometimes mediocrity wins.

They'll be in close games during the playoffs. That's not the definition of mediocrity.

As for the 2012 rags, I don't want to be in a position to defend them, but they didn't suddenly go from awful to mediocre and then cup contender due to Carl Hagelin lol. They were never bad to begin with.

Edited by devlman, 12 March 2014 - 02:06 PM.

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#176 Triumph

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 02:28 PM

They'll be in close games during the playoffs. That's not the definition of mediocrity.

As for the 2012 rags, I don't want to be in a position to defend them, but they didn't suddenly go from awful to mediocre and then cup contender due to Carl Hagelin lol. They were never bad to begin with.

 

lol at them being a cup contender.  50% Fentied team, look out everyone.  They were a mediocre team.  They were never a Cup contender - they would've needed massive doses of luck to win a Stanley Cup.


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#177 devilsrule33

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 02:31 PM

lol at them being a cup contender.  50% Fentied team, look out everyone.  They were a mediocre team.  They were never a Cup contender - they would've needed massive doses of luck to win a Stanley Cup.

 

Didn't the 2012 Rangers need to win game 6 and 7 to survive the average Senators. Didn't they need to a 7th game to beat the mediocre Capitals.

 

The 2012 Rangers were not good at all.


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#178 dmann422

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 02:39 PM

lol at them being a cup contender. 50% Fentied team, look out everyone. They were a mediocre team. They were never a Cup contender - they would've needed massive doses of luck to win a Stanley Cup.

I generally agree with the statistics, but sometimes you need to separate them from reality- in the words of bill parcells "you are what your record says you are."

You cannot say the leafs are a bad team getting excellent goaltending- because goaltending plays a very large part in the outcome of any game, and thus the leafs are a good team BECAUSE of their goaltending. You're essentially saying last year's Seahawks were a mediocre team propped up by a great defense, well yeah but defense plays a large part in football and won them the Super Bowl.

I'm not saying the leafs are cup contenders but don't forget that last year with basically the same team they really should have beaten the bruins so I don't think they're a bad team, maybe lucky a bit but not bad.
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#179 Sneax

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 02:47 PM

Personally I thought the 2012 rangers were very good, in the sense they were very much like the teams we have had. Very structured defensivley with solid goal tending (big pads played a role but they werent giving up many goals). They played hard as fvck and with alot of heart. If I could choose between a devils team that looked like this years rags team vs a team that looked like the 2012 rags team, I'd take the 2012 rags team.

 

 

Their biggest mistake was trading away all the players they did for these pansies they have now. It's a skilled team but it doesn't seem like one that is going to make a deep playoff run. Don't seem built for playoff hockey.


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#180 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 02:57 PM

You gotta stop with this "being in people's" head nonsense.  I for one would have definitely said that should have clearly been a no goal.  Reading the responses on the Flyers board on HF, many feel it was the correct call.  You seriously don't give Devils fans enough credit here that if the roles were reversed we would be bitching about the call.  I don't believe that for a second.  We're a rational group despite the fact we tend to be immature.

 

Anyways, from watching that game, I didn't notice any real good scoring chance the Flyers had.  As I said, that 3rd period was a defensive clinic, and Marty never had to make any really hard saves.  The only hard save he did have to make was that glove save through a screen of like 4 guys.  I personally believe the Flyers never had as many shots as they were credited with last night.  It definitely only felt like 25 at most.  Flyers also had 6 powerplays.  And some of those were gifts from the refs.

 

I'm not even going to acknowlege the bolded, as it's so off-base it's comical.   

 

Clearly a lot of Flyer fans in attendance were plenty ticked about the goal being waved off.  I think it's reasonable to say many Devils fans would've felt the same way under similar circumstances (initially anyway)...especially if they were given even more of a glimmer of hope when Toronto was consulted re:  whether or not the goal should count.            


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