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Cory Schneider and bad angle weak shots


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#41 Neb00rs

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:41 AM

That's hilarious, no offense. The Devils are and have always been an excellent excellent excellent excellent defensive team. A lot better than most of those playoff teams. 

 

Schneider has had a much easier time this year than in Vancouver. He simply hasn't been as good.

 

It's not though. I think there are plenty of teams in the league today who make their goalies look better by A. scoring more goals and B. By preventing more goals long before they ever even become scoring chances.

 

Starting from 2010-11 when Cory was starting a legitimate amount of games, the Canucks have gone 1st, 4th, and 18th in the league in scoring respectively. 18th came during the lockout and was still 10 spots better than the Devils.

 

From 10-11 through 12-13, Vancouver also went 1st, 4th, and 14th in the league in goal differential respectively. The Devils went 25th, 9th, 24th respectively.

 

In 2010-11 Vancouver scored first in 41 of their wins (1st in the league). In 2011-12 they scored first in 42 of their wins (1st in the league). In 2012-13 they scored first in 20 of their wins (6th in the league). 

 

For NJD in the same time span: 2010-11: scored first in 27 of their wins (19th). 2011-12: scored first in 32 of their wins (7th). 2012-13: scored first in 14 of their wins (23rd).

 

This year, New Jersey is 28th in PP time, that means more time in the defensive zone. Vancouver constantly finishes first in the league in all PP stats.

 

I am not saying this means the world but it is just a few examples of how the pressure in Vancouver can be lessened. Again, not saying this actually covered up for any of Cory's flaws or generated his astronomical save percentages but it shows that he needs to prove himself on the Devils.


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#42 skeeter

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 07:32 AM

Somebody pinch me...
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#43 sundstrom

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 08:31 AM

Maybe if he made a big ****ing stop once in a while late in games I could live with his soft angle bs. 

 

off the top of my head, i recall the columbus game at home where he made some big stops late when columbus was coming back - there was amazing lateral save late that brodeur would have been 20 minutes behind.

 

he has not been great since the break - full stop. he's also so positionally sound that many saves he makes the shot look like less quality because the shooter is putting it right into his chest.

 

cory isn't the messiah but before the last 5 games, he was vezina quality.


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#44 Mike Brown

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 09:15 AM

Yes, he's Osgood.  Now please find me a 125 game stretch of Osgood's career where he has been an elite goalie.

 

I love Schneider, but it's hard to say Schneider was an elite goalie when his career high in games was 33. Nobody truly thinks Mariano Rivera is the greatest pitcher of all time, do they?

 

I'm not impressed with him and frankly I do not want the Devils to re-sign him.

 

He never makes a big save at the right time.

 

:doh1:


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#45 devilsrule33

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 09:35 AM

It's not though. I think there are plenty of teams in the league today who make their goalies look better by A. scoring more goals and B. By preventing more goals long before they ever even become scoring chances.

 

Starting from 2010-11 when Cory was starting a legitimate amount of games, the Canucks have gone 1st, 4th, and 18th in the league in scoring respectively. 18th came during the lockout and was still 10 spots better than the Devils.

 

From 10-11 through 12-13, Vancouver also went 1st, 4th, and 14th in the league in goal differential respectively. The Devils went 25th, 9th, 24th respectively.

 

In 2010-11 Vancouver scored first in 41 of their wins (1st in the league). In 2011-12 they scored first in 42 of their wins (1st in the league). In 2012-13 they scored first in 20 of their wins (6th in the league). 

 

For NJD in the same time span: 2010-11: scored first in 27 of their wins (19th). 2011-12: scored first in 32 of their wins (7th). 2012-13: scored first in 14 of their wins (23rd).

 

This year, New Jersey is 28th in PP time, that means more time in the defensive zone. Vancouver constantly finishes first in the league in all PP stats.

 

I am not saying this means the world but it is just a few examples of how the pressure in Vancouver can be lessened. Again, not saying this actually covered up for any of Cory's flaws or generated his astronomical save percentages but it shows that he needs to prove himself on the Devils.

 

We don't need to use PP time as a measure of zone time. Anyway, Schneider has a comparable in Vancouver, and it is Luongo. Cory's stats were miles better. 

 

It seems you are almost doing a disservice to Brodeur by talking about a goalie on a great team because Brodeur has been on very good teams almost his entire career. Good team or not, Cory Schneider was excellent during his time there. Ridiculously good. 

 

The thing is there have been a lot of great teams, and that doesn't necessarily mean there numbers were good. Osgood is an easy example. Fleury continues to put up average numbers at best. Niemi in Chicago and now San Jose, Emery in Ottawa, etc.


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#46 Brandon

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 09:39 AM

This thread is so dumb, the guy's in a slump, no one's hiding that, but to say he's a bum after being nearly Vezina quality before the break is just laughable. This board sometimes...
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#47 Marshall

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 10:20 AM

#DevilsFansDeserveTheDevils


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#48 Mike Brown

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 10:44 AM

What are we gonna be like if we have to endure an Oilers-esque rebuild?  What will this board be like?  When it's all said and done, will the Devils still have fans?  I fear for a 4 or 5 year lean period.


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#49 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 10:46 AM

What are we gonna be like if we have to endure an Oilers-esque rebuild?  What will this board be like?  When it's all said and done, will the Devils still have fans?  I fear for a 4 or 5 year lean period.

 

A large portion of this fanbase cannot handle a true losing team.


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#50 Triumph

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:36 AM

The thing that fans who welcome a rebuild don't understand about an Oilers esque rebuild is that while yeah in Year 3 you've hopefully got 3 or 4 guys you like and you're excited about, you've got 10-12 guys who are literal dead weight who you have to see for half the game.


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#51 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:55 AM

The thing that fans who welcome a rebuild don't understand about an Oilers esque rebuild is that while yeah in Year 3 you've hopefully got 3 or 4 guys you like and you're excited about, you've got 10-12 guys who are literal dead weight who you have to see for half the game.

 

I don't think it's quite as cut and dried as that, Tri. I think people view the Oilers as the only model for a rebuild. I'd be more inclined to try an Avalanche style rebuild. Their better players retired (Sakic, Roy) and they went into a brief point at the bottom and, using guys they drafted from there like Gabriel Landeskog and Matt Duchesne they've steadily climbed back into contention. They weren't that bad for that long and they didn't get the "home run" draft picks like Sidney Crosby or Evgeny Malkin, nor did they stay at the bottom grabbing every undersized offensive player to attract attention in the CHL like the Oilers have. That is the kind of rebuild I'd aspire towards.


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#52 Z-Man

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:07 PM

This is pretty much the dumbest thread ever.

 

Yep, let's scrap the Schneider plan.  I don't want him re-signed, either.  :doh1:

 

We might as well offer contracts to Jonas Hiller, Jaroslav Halak or Bryzgalov this offseason, because Cory isn't the long term answer.


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#53 Triumph

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:13 PM

I don't think it's quite as cut and dried as that, Tri. I think people view the Oilers as the only model for a rebuild. I'd be more inclined to try an Avalanche style rebuild. Their better players retired (Sakic, Roy) and they went into a brief point at the bottom and, using guys they drafted from there like Gabriel Landeskog and Matt Duchesne they've steadily climbed back into contention. They weren't that bad for that long and they didn't get the "home run" draft picks like Sidney Crosby or Evgeny Malkin, nor did they stay at the bottom grabbing every undersized offensive player to attract attention in the CHL like the Oilers have. That is the kind of rebuild I'd aspire towards.

 

The Avalanche also had a bunch of terrible players and again they are not out of the woods yet (47% Fenwick Tied, 48.6% of the shots when Tied).  They also had a year in there where they made the playoffs when they had no business making the playoffs.  They also nabbed an excellent player in the 2nd round in Ryan O'Reilly - that's the kind of thing it takes.


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#54 Neb00rs

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:18 PM

We don't need to use PP time as a measure of zone time. Anyway, Schneider has a comparable in Vancouver, and it is Luongo. Cory's stats were miles better. 

 

It seems you are almost doing a disservice to Brodeur by talking about a goalie on a great team because Brodeur has been on very good teams almost his entire career. Good team or not, Cory Schneider was excellent during his time there. Ridiculously good. 

 

The thing is there have been a lot of great teams, and that doesn't necessarily mean there numbers were good. Osgood is an easy example. Fleury continues to put up average numbers at best. Niemi in Chicago and now San Jose, Emery in Ottawa, etc.

 

My comments were only in response to 'pressure' in Vancouver being (possibly) less. I was making the point that there is an argument for that.

 

Like I said, Cory needs to do very little to sway me to say "SIGN HIM Long term!!!" I'd like to see him return to form for a few games before the end of the season. I think that's fair. If not, he has another year anyways.


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#55 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 12:19 PM

The Avalanche also had a bunch of terrible players and again they are not out of the woods yet (47% Fenwick Tied, 48.6% of the shots when Tied).  They also had a year in there where they made the playoffs when they had no business making the playoffs.  They also nabbed an excellent player in the 2nd round in Ryan O'Reilly - that's the kind of thing it takes.

 

Yeah and that's the kind of thing we used to have. We've nabbed excellent players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds in the past (Patrik Elias 2nd round 51st overall, Adam Henrique 3rd round 82nd overall). We've already got loads of marginal players on our team whether we want to admit they're marginal or not and several of them are here for a reasonably long haul. The Avs may not be fully out of the woods as far as being outright contenders, but they are certainly miles ahead of the Oilers after starting a slump way way later.


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#56 2ELIAS6

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 04:06 PM

A large portion of this fanbase cannot handle a true losing team.

thats what happens when fans get spoiled
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