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#21 MadDog2020

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 10:29 AM

You can argue that Bumgarner just submitted the best overall post-season performance by a pitcher in baseball history.

Edited by MadDog2020, 30 October 2014 - 10:29 AM.

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#22 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 11:02 AM

Indeed. Though as a Mets fan I couldn't help think "sh!t, who the hell ever thought the Royals would win another WS before we did!?"

 

I think this Royals team has the look of a 1 trick pony, though their farm system is sort of above average

 

Hey...Royals won in '85, Mets in '86.  Maybe history repeats.  God I hope so, though at this point, I'll take 80+ wins and being in a race. 


You can argue that Bumgarner just submitted the best overall post-season performance by a pitcher in baseball history.

 

Always appreciate the guys who come through in the big spots.  The "cornerstone" of the Mets usually doesn't.


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#23 Hi, I'm VALUE!

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 02:39 PM

Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, John Smoltz and Craig Biggio elected to Hall of Fame.  Congrats to all of them.


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#24 Daniel

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 02:56 PM

Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, John Smoltz and Craig Biggio elected to Hall of Fame. Congrats to all of them.


I really think the MLB Hall of Fame writers should set up some kind of process where a player that suspects he is not being admitted because of steroids can submit to questions under oath, which you can do outside of a court or Congressional setting.


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#25 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 04:38 PM

I don't understand some of the voters.  Curt Schilling has very similar career numbers to John Smoltz, and was also a terrific postseason pitcher.  I guess because he didn't spend a few years closing in the middle of his career (and how many successful starting pitchers really ever get asked to close...not many...and in Eckersley's case, it saved his career), he's somehow not considered to be nearly as H-O-F worthy as Smoltz.  Just because Smoltz is the only pitcher to rack up 200+ wins and 150+ saves in his career doesn't mean other guys couldn't have done it. 

 

Pedro Martinez gets only 91.1% of the vote?  How the hell wasn't he damned near unanimous?  I know he wasn't a high-innings guy, but from 1997-2004, he was a beast...as dominant as anyone else in his era. 

 

Not sure if I really think of Biggio as a H-O-F guy...of course, once you reach 3000 hits, for a lot of guys, it's only a matter of time before they're inducted.  Biggio was durable as hell and managed to stay away from truly dreadful years almost right up until the end of his career (a big reason he got to 3000 hits), and was definitely a good (occasionally very good) player, but I just don't look at him and think greatness (didn't do much in the postseason either).  Fine player for sure.


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#26 NJDevs4978

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 04:47 PM

I really think the MLB Hall of Fame writers should set up some kind of process where a player that suspects he is not being admitted because of steroids can submit to questions under oath, which you can do outside of a court or Congressional setting.


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Honestly the selective imaginary justice is kind of dumb.  Especially since they've already likely put in at least one HOF'er that juiced (Canseco said three I think at one point, wouldn't surprise me if one of them was someone who played with Canseco in Oakland and also on both NY teams).  The minute some guy who's already in the HOF gets outed as a roid user then they won't have a leg to stand on as far as keeping the Piazzas of the world out due to speculation and 'stuff they know but can't print'.

 

But yeah like CR said they have other issues apart from even acting like the DEA.  The only difference between Smoltz and Schilling as players (besides the two-three years closing for Smoltz out of neccesity) is the fact maybe Schilling is looked on as a bit of a mercenary given all the different teams he's been on while Smoltz was a Brave almost his entire career.  Not saying that should matter but the writers can be a bit full of themselves at times in applying criteria.  Jeff Kent was a better offensive player than Craig Biggio but he'll seemingly never get in because of his 'defense', which is more or less code for we don't like the guy and everyone loved Biggio.


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#27 Daniel

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 05:03 PM

Honestly the selective imaginary justice is kind of dumb.  Especially since they've already likely put in at least one HOF'er that juiced (Canseco said three I think at one point, wouldn't surprise me if one of them was someone who played with Canseco in Oakland and also on both NY teams).  The minute some guy who's already in the HOF gets outed as a roid user then they won't have a leg to stand on as far as keeping the Piazzas of the world out due to speculation and 'stuff they know but can't print'.

 

But yeah like CR said they have other issues apart from even acting like the DEA.  The only difference between Smoltz and Schilling as players (besides the two-three years closing for Smoltz out of neccesity) is the fact maybe Schilling is looked on as a bit of a mercenary given all the different teams he's been on while Smoltz was a Brave almost his entire career.  Not saying that should matter but the writers can be a bit full of themselves at times in applying criteria.  Jeff Kent was a better offensive player than Craig Biggio but he'll seemingly never get in because of his 'defense', which is more or less code for we don't like the guy and everyone loved Biggio.

 

I think Kent might be a suspected juicer also, but might be wrong on that.

 

Francessa was saying that a reason why certain players get far fewer votes than they should (like Pedro) is that more writers than you think will vote for people just to stay on the ballot, and figure that the other writers will pick up the slack.


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#28 NJDevs4978

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 05:16 PM

I think Kent might be a suspected juicer also, but might be wrong on that.

 

Francessa was saying that a reason why certain players get far fewer votes than they should (like Pedro) is that more writers than you think will vote for people just to stay on the ballot, and figure that the other writers will pick up the slack.

 

Would it shock me if Kent juiced...absolutely not.  Especially with Bonds' trainer running around the clubhouse with unfettered access.  But then again aside from maybe a handful of players almost nobody from that era would shock me as a juicer.  There's still no smoking gun vis-a-vis Kent.  Hell for all we know maybe they suspect Schilling as a juicer too.

 

And nobody's ever going to get a unanimous vote for the baseball HOF, Babe Ruth wasn't unanimous.  Writers have a weird fetish for not wanting to give anyone a 100% rating since nobody's ever gotten it before.


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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#29 Daniel

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 06:26 PM

Would it shock me if Kent juiced...absolutely not. Especially with Bonds' trainer running around the clubhouse with unfettered access. But then again aside from maybe a handful of players almost nobody from that era would shock me as a juicer. There's still no smoking gun vis-a-vis Kent. Hell for all we know maybe they suspect Schilling as a juicer too.

And nobody's ever going to get a unanimous vote for the baseball HOF, Babe Ruth wasn't unanimous. Writers have a weird fetish for not wanting to give anyone a 100% rating since nobody's ever gotten it before.


Kent might also be held back by the fact that he doesn't have those magic career numbers, 3000 hits or 500 home runs. Kind of like Tim Raines. Biggio's 3000 hits is why he made it. Relatedly, I think for the foreseeable future 3,000 hits will be seen as a bigger accomplishment than 500 home runs, as the latter almost automatically makes you suspicious.

Re no unanimous votes, there are a few of those writers who never vote for someone on the first ballot just to keep the tradition alive. But the fact that Pedro was only at around 90 percent has a lot to do with the phenomenon I was talking about.


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#30 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 08:52 AM

What's going on with Kent is absurd.  A bunch of geeky always-the-last-ones-picked-to-play writers are basically collectively sticking it to Kent because he has a reputation as being a complete jerk.  Just look at his numbers from 1997-2005...he should probably sail into the friggin' Hall on those alone...those offensive numbers are beastly for a second baseman (and he's never been linked to steroids so far as I can tell...he's been very public about speaking out against them).  His detractors will point to his meh defense, but it's not like every damned player in the HOF is a golden glove.  If Kent was a swell cuddly guy who was great with the media, he'd be getting a lot more votes than he's getting now.  I can understand his not getting in right away, or getting 55-60% of the vote, but less than 15% shows me that the writers are just being a bunch of self-righteous douchebags.        


Kent might also be held back by the fact that he doesn't have those magic career numbers, 3000 hits or 500 home runs. Kind of like Tim Raines. Biggio's 3000 hits is why he made it. Relatedly, I think for the foreseeable future 3,000 hits will be seen as a bigger accomplishment than 500 home runs, as the latter almost automatically makes you suspicious.

Re no unanimous votes, there are a few of those writers who never vote for someone on the first ballot just to keep the tradition alive. But the fact that Pedro was only at around 90 percent has a lot to do with the phenomenon I was talking about.


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I never expect anyone to be unanimous, and no one ever will be.  But Pedro should been over 95% easily. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#31 '7'

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 11:07 AM

The Kent thing also has to do with Bonds, as Kents career really never took off until he got to bat behind Bonds in SF. It's similar in a way to the folks who wanted to keep Steve Shutt out of the Hall of Fame thinking he was a Lafleur creation


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#32 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 11:51 AM

The Kent thing also has to do with Bonds, as Kents career really never took off until he got to bat behind Bonds in SF. It's similar in a way to the folks who wanted to keep Steve Shutt out of the Hall of Fame thinking he was a Lafleur creation

 

I'm sure that has something to do with it, but Kent's Astro and Dodger numbers weren't far off from his SF numbers (especially 2003-05).  His offensive numbers are what they are, and from all indications, he didn't cheat his way into putting them up.  I don't want to sound like I'm some big Jeff Kent fan, but it seems like he's being punished by voters for the following:

 

1) Being unlikable/hard to deal with (he's hardly alone in that category)

2) Playing in the Steroid Era even though he doesn't seem to be one of the culprits

3) Being in a lineup with a guy who clearly did cheat big-time (and supposedly, Barry didn't really go crazy with the 'roids until 1999, when he became jealous of all of the attention McGwire and Sosa got in 1998, despite the fact that Bonds was clearly better than both players).

 

Kent might be a guy who doesn't get in until the latter phase of his eligibility, which is fine, but he's just getting flat-out snubbed, mostly for reasons that are out of his control, and rather unfair. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#33 devilsrule33

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 12:33 PM

I thought it was Kent that was liked by the media but hated by his peers, which was the opposite of Bonds who was liked by his teammates and hated by the Media.


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#34 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 01:01 PM

I thought it was Kent that was liked by the media but hated by his peers, which was the opposite of Bonds who was liked by his teammates and hated by the Media.

 

There's something going on there.  He's being docked for something.  Looked up some stuff online and apparently he was one of those guys who 90% of the time just didn't want to bother with anyone at all...just wanted to show up and play ball.


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!




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