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#21 '7'

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:26 AM

Isn't that what the Yankees/Giants/Knicks are for though? People in NJ dont have a baseball, basketball or football outlet with "New Jersey" attached to the name.  It is a head scratcher that the Devils aren't more popular considering two decades of success and representing a state with a sizeable population (obviously South Jersey not withstanding)

 

I kind of wish the Devils made a push into south jersey as well. I mean it IS still NJ, and though you can't really expect most of those people to go to games it's not really a good idea to just write off an entire region like that to the Flyers.


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#22 Triumph

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:31 AM

Isn't that what the Yankees/Giants/Knicks are for though? People in NJ dont have a baseball, basketball or football outlet with "New Jersey" attached to the name.  It is a head scratcher that the Devils aren't more popular considering two decades of success and representing a state with a sizeable population (obviously South Jersey not withstanding)

 

Many people in the area have strong familial/economic ties to New York City.  I didn't, so I grew up a Devils fan, but most of my middle school/high school were Rangers fans.  It's not easy to be a fan of a different team than your family.


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#23 SMantzas

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:33 AM

I kind of wish the Devils made a push into south jersey as well. I mean it IS still NJ, and though you can't really expect most of those people to go to games it's not really a good idea to just write off an entire region like that to the Flyers.

Living in South Jersey, maybe 2% of hockey fans are Devils fans and thats probably generous.  Until MSG is available in counties south of Ocean and Mercer, nothing will change. I was actually just thinking about this, but what the hell was the point of paying the Flyers a relocation fee if literally no marketing would be done in South Jersey? I can't attest to the 80s-mid90s marketing but since I've been a fan (1997ish) the only Devils related events down here have been small watching parties


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#24 '7'

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:33 AM

The problem lies in the last sentence. They grew up in Ranger fan families because of the ages of the parents and family they grew up in. If you were a kid born in the 70's and 80's, your parents were Rangers fans and that wasn't changing for the most part even with the Devils arrival. It took hockey people like my family who latched on to the idea of having a Jersey team to call their own. That was a tough adjustment, too, because the Rangers were here 50 years and the Devils were terrible.

 

Even if you were born in the 1990's, there's still a good bet your parents and the kids were Rangers fans, especially pre-1995. IMO, the Devils fanbase has only started to grow when people were won over or influenced by the Cups and when they had kids, those kids were fans as well. I said it before that i truly believe the Devils fanbase is a generation behind. The Devils may have been here 32 years already, but you had a generation that needed to be weeded out of Ranger DNA before you can "home grow" a fanbase and develop the same type of loyalty. 

 

True regarding the Devils being a generation behind. Also though the Devils moved here in 1982 they were absolutely dormant until 1988. That's almost 6 years of being entirely off the radar and making no inroads. Then they followed up the 88 run by not making it out of the first round until 1994, when the Rags won their only cup. Even our 1995 run was in the Rags afterglow.

 

1998-2006...that was the time to assert our dominance and to market the hell out of this team. But they never did...

 

I still remember during the 2002 playoffs (when we'd lose to the friggin Canes) driving under a dingy bridge in Hawthorne and seeing a small white billboard on the side of it. It simply had the Devils logo and in plain block lettering "Join the crowd...then the Devils ticket number" I thought my god, how half assed is this. Where is the giant image of Scott Steven crushing a Ranger or lifting the cup, or Brodeur making a glove save, or a Cup celebration. It's just the god damn logo and 80% white billboard. What a waste of space


Edited by '7', 07 April 2014 - 09:39 AM.

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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
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#25 TheRedStorm

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:47 AM

True regarding the Devils being a generation behind. Also though the Devils moved here in 1982 they were absolutely dormant until 1988. That's almost 6 years of being entirely off the radar and making no inroads. Then they followed up the 88 run by not making it out of the first round until 1994, when the Rags won their only cup. Even our 1995 run was in the Rags afterglow.

 

1998-2006...that was the time to assert our dominance and to market the hell out of this team. But they never did...

 

If i had to guess, yeah, it was that time frame. The Devils were among the class of the league and the Rangers were doormats. 

 

But, it goes back to what Weber said and he's 100% right. Winning couldn't do it alone. This franchise needed to be marketed night and day as a class franchise with a now winning tradtion. Players needed to have face time and people relate to them without the helmets. It's almost like the organization was happy being the little team that could instead of the big team that can.

 

Weber and O'Neil get this. That's why people should be anxious to see what they can do with a vision and money something the Devils never had in this respect. Remember, the Devils have tradition. They have a beautiful arena. They have money. There's alot to be done here. I just hope something like a Rangers Cup doesn't set these guys back because that might be the worst thing to a team already fighting itself.


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#26 Devils Pride 26

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:09 AM

Hate to say it, but there is no community pride in the State of NJ. Feel like this has something to do with it. I dont really subscribe to the economic status theory though. Like Devsman said, a lot of it has to do with the parents passing down their idiocy to their kids. A bunch of my friends became Rags fans that way.

#booKenny


I'm not too sure about that. NJ is a tricky area. I think on one end there is total disregard for state pride and NYC wannabes but on the other end, there is obnoxious, obsessive pride about NJ.

Maybe it's just being from the area, but I really think Monmouth/Ocean is FULL of state pride. Think of things like Benny Go Home and such. I'm never against my fellow Jersian Devils proud fans, I also felt like the true definition of a Benny was something like a ranger fan tool who grows up in NJ
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#27 TheRedStorm

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:16 AM

I'm not too sure about that. NJ is a tricky area. I think on one end there is total disregard for state pride and NYC wannabes but on the other end, there is obnoxious, obsessive pride about NJ.

Maybe it's just being from the area, but I really think Monmouth/Ocean is FULL of state pride. Think of things like Benny Go Home and such. I'm never against my fellow Jersian Devils proud fans, I also felt like the true definition of a Benny was something like a ranger fan tool who grows up in NJ

 

When my family rented at the Shore for Summers, we had those types of neighbors who wouldn't pee on you if you were on fire. They looked at anyone who didn't live there all year as Bennies. Didn't matter if we were as quiet as can be or from North Jersey. To them, you might as well been from NY. After Sandy, that changed a bit. Well, a whole lot. They are more then happy to take your money, smile at you, call you a "friend" all for the sake of rebuilding, you know?

 

Florida residents are the same way with their "Snow Bird" monikers.


Edited by TheRedStorm, 07 April 2014 - 10:17 AM.

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#28 '7'

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:21 AM

I'm not too sure about that. NJ is a tricky area. I think on one end there is total disregard for state pride and NYC wannabes but on the other end, there is obnoxious, obsessive pride about NJ.

Maybe it's just being from the area, but I really think Monmouth/Ocean is FULL of state pride. Think of things like Benny Go Home and such. I'm never against my fellow Jersian Devils proud fans, I also felt like the true definition of a Benny was something like a ranger fan tool who grows up in NJ

 

I hate the Benny Go Home stuff. I mean the shore belongs to ALL of us. And plenty of northern suburbanites pumped money into saving the shore post hurricane. We all love those spots. It doesn't just belong to the people who live near it.


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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
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#29 mikepeluso8

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:38 AM

I hate to say this but I think a lot of it is socio-economic level.  A lot of these kids making it in the NHL are from pretty well-to-do families and at least in my experiences a lot of them tend to be Rags fans.

 

I grew up and lived in Warren Twp in Somerset County (which is a pretty rich town) for over 20 years and I remember there being about a 60/40 split between Rags and Devils fans in my high school.  Most of the Rags fans are fans of them for 2 reasons; 1) because their families were Rags fans for years or 2) they had "New York" in their name.

 

 

Disagree.  100%

 

I grew up in Mendham, NJ (yes, that Mendham) and MANY of the fans out there are Devils fans...including those who went to Delbarton.

 

It has 0 to do with socio-economic status (what a dumb thing to say) and more to do with whether your parents/dad/uncles watched hockey growing up; if so, then you are more likely to be a Rangers fan.  If you started liking hockey as a kid (I am 28 now) and your dad was not as into hockey, Devils were the new team in town, the easier ticket to get, the closer arena to go to, etc. 

 

I have "less well off" friends who are Rangers fans (in fact, most Ranger fans were less wealthy in my experience) and "wealthy" friends who have been Devils STH since 1990.  

 

Lastly, Flanders is hardly a "nice area"...so one has nothing to do with the other.

 

Makes no sense, sorry.


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#30 mikepeluso8

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:41 AM

You nailed it, 100%. I'm really not sure how it worked out this way but the more well-to-do the family is, the more likely they are Rangers fans around here; something I've noticed as well.

 

 

 

It's possible Steve Santini was another one of them! Maybe Bobby Ryan too, showing up drunk on one of those Flyers fan busses on weekend gamedays!


 

No one will, but I will get people to boo him, keep your ears peeled when you see him touch the puck  :thumbsup:

 

 

Santini's whole family is Ranger fans.  Nothing to do with their "socio-economic" status.  Sure, they own a rink and a team up in Westchester, but they are hardly hoighty toighty types. See: his cousin from NJ.  Rough, rugged, blue collar type family.  Rangers fans.

 

Next question...


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#31 devlman

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:47 AM

Sorry I need to vent here

 

Have ANY of these young NJ kids in the NHL grown up rooting for the Devils? Because I don't know of a single one. Kenny F'n Agostino grew up in the heart of Devils country, he had Leetch and Messier and Richter posters on his wall? How many fvcking games did he see any of those guys play in their prime?

 

The answer is ZERO. He only saw shadows of them. When Kenny Agostino came of age Messier was a Canuck. He has no recollection of a Rangers cup win and his first memories of the Rags in the playoffs was 2006 when he was already 14. Did you enjoy that one Kenny?

 

 

Ever wonder who those douche kids in Rags gear are when the Devils were playing the Panthers in mid november at CAA? Kenny Agostino was one of 'em.

 

His earliest hockey memories are Devils winning the division, conference, and Stanley Cup. Yet he still rooted for the blue turds in their dim urine soaked hell hole in the late 90's early 2000's.

 

Part of me blames Lou for his absolute contempt of marketing during that time period. But kids like this should've never been lost to the Rags, even if they grew up in Rag families.

 

Yeah screw this kid. great hes reppin from Jersey, but to be such a poser Rags fan/so anti-devils... he can be permanently sent down to the minors for life for all i care.


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#32 DevsMan84

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:48 AM

Disagree.  100%

 

I grew up in Mendham, NJ (yes, that Mendham) and MANY of the fans out there are Devils fans...including those who went to Delbarton.

 

It has 0 to do with socio-economic status (what a dumb thing to say) and more to do with whether your parents/dad/uncles watched hockey growing up; if so, then you are more likely to be a Rangers fan.  If you started liking hockey as a kid (I am 28 now) and your dad was not as into hockey, Devils were the new team in town, the easier ticket to get, the closer arena to go to, etc. 

 

I have "less well off" friends who are Rangers fans (in fact, most Ranger fans were less wealthy in my experience) and "wealthy" friends who have been Devils STH since 1990.  

 

Lastly, Flanders is hardly a "nice area"...so one has nothing to do with the other.

 

Makes no sense, sorry.

 

Parents have some influence, but not a lot.  I didn't say socio-economics are 100% of the reason, but I do see a trend with it.  Again, doesn't mean all Devils fans are blue-collar and all Rags fans are white-collar.

 

My Dad and I got to be Devils fans at about the same time as he got free tickets from his business partner to a Devils game.  A good chunk of my extended family were Rangers fan including the biggest hockey fan in my family, my uncle.  My brother was even a Rags fan too yet I became a Devils fan along with my Dad.  So like my theory and my observations family does indeed influence, but it is not the reason 100% of the time.

 

So please stop putting words in my mouth and taking my generalized theory as some iron-clad overall statement.  Hell I even got a person who sees the same thing I did before you even posted so I am not alone.


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#33 devlman

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:50 AM

You nailed it, 100%. I'm really not sure how it worked out this way but the more well-to-do the family is, the more likely they are Rangers fans around here; something I've noticed as well.

 

 

Probably because a lot of those people are living in an alternate reality


Thats why Devils fan John Carlson is alright by me :thumbsup:


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#34 DevsMan84

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:50 AM

Santini's whole family is Ranger fans.  Nothing to do with their "socio-economic" status.  Sure, they own a rink and a team up in Westchester, but they are hardly hoighty toighty types. See: his cousin from NJ.  Rough, rugged, blue collar type family.  Rangers fans.

 

Next question...

 

Edit: Nevermind


Edited by DevsMan84, 07 April 2014 - 10:53 AM.

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#35 mikepeluso8

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:51 AM

Parents have some influence, but not a lot.  I didn't say socio-economics are 100% of the reason, but I do see a trend with it.  Again, doesn't mean all Devils fans are blue-collar and all Rags fans are white-collar.

 

My Dad and I got to be Devils fans at about the same time as he got free tickets from his business partner to a Devils game.  A good chunk of my extended family were Rangers fan including the biggest hockey fan in my family, my uncle.  My brother was even a Rags fan too yet I became a Devils fan along with my Dad.  So like my theory and my observations family does indeed influence, but it is not the reason 100% of the time.

 

So please stop putting words in my mouth and taking my generalized theory as some iron-clad overall statement.  Hell I even got a person who sees the same thing I did before you even posted so I am not alone.

 

Fair enough.  One way or the other: Rangers/Devils divide has ZERO to do with economics.

 

More with family and convenience.


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#36 mikepeluso8

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:54 AM

Yeah because anyone can own a rink and a team :giggle:

 

My God your post is almost like a classic MB post.

 

Listen, I am not going to get into details and economics...but take my word for it, this isn't your average "well off" family.  Just trust me on this one.


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#37 dmann422

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:00 AM

I think RedStorm has the best answer here, believe me I would love nothing more than to be a Yankee fan, my life would be so much easier and when all is said and done id probably add a few years onto my life expectancy due to lower stress, but my dad is a diehard met fan, so no matter how hard I tried to follow my friends on the late 90's bandwagon, I was born a met fan and will die as one.
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#38 devilsfan26

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:03 AM

It's not necessarily socio-economic -  well, perhaps more socio than economic, at least - the Rangers are the status team in the area and always will be.  The Devils will never play in Manhattan and they will never have the 'tradition' the Rangers do. 

I agree it is mostly this as well as kids inheriting their allegiances from their parents.  I was in Cub Scouts as a kid and we went to Devils games once or twice a year.  We all rooted for the Devils, but by the time we got to probably fourth or fifth grade when suddenly everyone had to try to be cool, many decided they were now Rangers fans.  They are just the more glamorous choice.  Not to mention that since NJ lacks other pro sports teams, it's not hard for people to root for a New York team in the NHL when they already root for New York teams in every other sport.

 

I don't think socioeconomic status has much to do with it, there are plenty of affluent Devils fans.


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#39 mikepeluso8

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:08 AM

Another good example: The most popular thing to do in NJ---be a Giants fan.  Guaranteed 90-95% of the people on here are Giants fans...proud ones, at that.  And there is even a good history of some socioeconomic ribbing between the "wine and cheese" Giants fans  and the more blue collar, rough, rowdy Jets fans. 

 

My dad (not a sports fan back then, not an athlete by any means) put our name on the lists for Jets and Giants tickets back in 1985 when I was born with my uncle.  In 1988, our name came up first in the Jets lottery (or whatever system was used) and we have had season Jets tickets since 1988.  Had little to do with economics or even my dad's allegiance one way or the other--just so happens it was/is easier to get Jets tickets than Giants tickets and we have been die hard Jets fans ever since.

 

Don't mean to beat a dead horse but I find this argument very interesting.


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#40 CHIP72

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:09 AM

I'm of the personal opinion that the Rangers fans in north/central Jersey phenomenon, at least among fans in their late 20s and younger, has to do with New York being (IMO) the most important city in the U.S.  "New York" has a lot more cache associated with it than "New Jersey", and I'm guessing there are many people from north and central Jersey who psychologically think of themselves as being from the New York area rather than being from New Jersey.  Having "New York" teams playing in New Jersey doesn't help matters in that regard IMO.  Incidentally, I think that psychological association I mentioned above is also true in south Jersey with Philadelphia.

 

I kind of wish the Devils made a push into south jersey as well. I mean it IS still NJ, and though you can't really expect most of those people to go to games it's not really a good idea to just write off an entire region like that to the Flyers.

 

One of the tough things for the Devils in south Jersey is that the Flyers, more than any other major league pro sports team in Philadelphia, really have cultivated their ties with south Jersey.  That connection predates the Devils coming to north Jersey.  The Flyers have long had their practice facility in Voorhees, and many ex-Flyers, particularly from Broad Street Bullies era, settled in south Jersey during and/or after their playing careers.

 

I'm not too sure about that. NJ is a tricky area. I think on one end there is total disregard for state pride and NYC wannabes but on the other end, there is obnoxious, obsessive pride about NJ.

 

I'm originally from eastern Pennsylvania/Lehigh Valley (and admittedly like to make fun of New Jersey sometimes, but will also defend the state when people from not near New Jersey put it down), so my perspective is from a non-native, but I think the above is pretty accurate.  My impression is that New Jersey natives either associate more with New York (north Jersey) or Philadelphia (south Jersey) than with the state itself, or they have unusually strong state pride, probably in part because of the ribbing it gets from nearby non-NJ natives, and probably in part because of the many people who think less in terms of New Jersey and more in terms of being from "the New York area" or "the Philadelphia area".

 

On a slightly related note to this discussion, I strongly believe Rutgers University would benefit from changing its name to New Jersey State University or the University of New Jersey.  Such a name change would, IMO, strengthen New Jersey natives' association and connection with New Jersey relative to feeling connected to New York or Philadelphia.  (Yes, I know having "New Jersey" in its name hasn't entirely solved that problem for the Devils, but I think that's because there are competing teams in the New York and Philadelphia areas.  With college sports, no other school in the state would truly rival Rutgers New Jersey State in popularity.)


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