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#41 '7'

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:19 AM

Another good example: The most popular thing to do in NJ---be a Giants fan.  Guaranteed 90-95% of the people on here are Giants fans...proud ones, at that.  And there is even a good history of some socioeconomic ribbing between the "wine and cheese" Giants fans  and the more blue collar, rough, rowdy Jets fans. 

 

My dad (not a sports fan back then, not an athlete by any means) put our name on the lists for Jets and Giants tickets back in 1985 when I was born with my uncle.  In 1988, our name came up first in the Jets lottery (or whatever system was used) and we have had season Jets tickets since 1988.  Had little to do with economics or even my dad's allegiance one way or the other--just so happens it was/is easier to get Jets tickets than Giants tickets and we have been die hard Jets fans ever since.

 

Don't mean to beat a dead horse but I find this argument very interesting.

 

There is a Jets thread on this board but no Giants thread

 

the majority of football fans in NJ are giants fans but it's nowhere near 90%. Prob 60-40

 

I think the wine and cheese giants fans thing came from the Connecticut blue blood Giants fan base that went up into most of NE even when the Patriots came into existence. I never really see it among NY and NJ Giants fans.

 

and nowadays you can get season tickets for both teams quite easily since they built that disastrous generic metlife stadium


Edited by '7', 07 April 2014 - 11:22 AM.

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#42 CHIP72

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:28 AM

I think RedStorm has the best answer here, believe me I would love nothing more than to be a Yankee fan, my life would be so much easier and when all is said and done id probably add a few years onto my life expectancy due to lower stress, but my dad is a diehard met fan, so no matter how hard I tried to follow my friends on the late 90's bandwagon, I was born a met fan and will die as one.

 

I think parents' sports fan affiliations play a role, but I think more broadly the biggest factor is exposure.  My father, who grew up in northeastern PA, is a Yankees and Giants fan (though he does root for the Phillies in the National League).  He wasn't someone who often attended games however, at least after I was born.  By contrast, I grew up in the Lehigh Valley, which is in the Philadelphia TV market.  I was much more exposed to the Phillies and Eagles than I was the Yankees and Giants when I was young (though we did occasionally watch the Yankees on Channel 11), and when I first started becoming aware of sports, roughly around 1980, both the Phillies and Eagles were very good.  Additionally, to his credit my father never tried to force me to root for a certain team (something I would say regardless of which teams I ended up rooting for).  As a result, I became a Phillies and Eagles fan.

 

(Incidentally, to finish the line of thought above, my father never paid much attention to hockey, and neither did I when I was young, at least compared to baseball, football, and basketball.  I casually paid attention to the Flyers in the 1980s, but it was not at the level I paid attention to the Eagles, Phillies, and 76ers; I watched very little hockey and followed the sport more through reading about it.  Additionally, I had an attraction to scrappy underdog teams on their way up, namely the Penguins - located in PA - and Devils - located less than 100 miles away.  As time went on I became more interested in both the Penguins and Devils, and after I went to college in central PA in the early 1990s and got exposed to idiotic Pittsburgh fans, I focused solely on the Devils.)


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#43 CHIP72

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:35 AM

Another good example: The most popular thing to do in NJ---be a Giants fan.  Guaranteed 90-95% of the people on here are Giants fans...proud ones, at that.  And there is even a good history of some socioeconomic ribbing between the "wine and cheese" Giants fans  and the more blue collar, rough, rowdy Jets fans.

 

I think whatever advantage in fan affiliation the Giants have over the Jets in New Jersey is related to 1) the Giants having been around 35 years longer, 2) Yankee Stadium being easier to get to from New Jersey than Shea Stadium back in the day, 3) the Giants moving to New Jersey 8 years before the Jets (1976 vs 1984), and 4) the Giants being a more successful franchise over the last 30 years than the Jets.  (The Jets have only been distinctly more successful than the Giants at one time in their history, and that was during the Joe Namath days about 45 years ago.)  I really don't think there is a strong socioeconomic difference between Giants and Jets fans in New Jersey except that older fans (early 60s and older) are much more likely to be Giants fans and are also more likely to be richer (due to having a whole lifetime to accumulate and save money).


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#44 DJ Eco

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:41 AM

Santini's whole family is Ranger fans.  Nothing to do with their "socio-economic" status.  Sure, they own a rink and a team up in Westchester, but they are hardly hoighty toighty types. See: his cousin from NJ.  Rough, rugged, blue collar type family.  Rangers fans.

 

Next question...

 

I'm not calling all Rangers fans (or the Santinis) Rockefeller types, just agreeing with someone else that I've noticed some of the higher end families around me in Hudson/Bergen Counties being Rangers fans. Granted, I wasn't even making the connection between the "theory" and the Santinis, as they live in NY and have every right to be proud Rangers fans without us criticizing them. I was only bringing up the Santinis in the context of joking that he maybe was one of those "kids who comes to the Rock in Rangers jerseys to cheer against the Devils."

 

But to take a step back a bit, I absolutely subscribe to the socio-economic theory, and hear me out:

 

It's not really up for debate that playing or being involved in hockey is generally a middle class/upper-middle class sport at the very least, it absolutely is (much like lacrosse, golf, etc.)... So, a family who's spending a ton of money on equipment and putting their kids into a hockey program in the 80s or 90s presumably had that interest or passion for hockey already, right (it's not like little league baseball or soccer where you can just throw your kids into these programs cheaply nowadays, it's an expensive path)? And obviously, most family-age adults in the 80s or early 90s (pre-1995) in New Jersey are prior Rangers fans. So these kids are mostly likely to grow up to be Rangers fans. Not making any monumental conclusions here, I know.

 

Now let's go to Hudson and Essex Counties and the surrounding areas, and spotlight a Devils fan like me. I played soccer for fun as a kid, very cheap sport. My parents are both immigrants and only really knew soccer. I had no background in hockey until I was 7 and we randomly went to a game with cheap tickets (in 1995). Boom, there it started, I had no prior allegiances. Now, where does the socio-economic debate kick in? Most kids in these two counties, Hudson and Essex (and beyond, even parts of Bergen and Passaic Counties) have the same background as me: immigrant background, no prior interest in hockey at all, mostly middle class or below; I'm not making this stuff up, it's just a simple demographic of this area. Someone from around here lands into hockey fandom by way of the New Jersey Devils being your local team, moreso now with the arena being in Newark and accessible by public transportation.

 

 

It's not a cut-and-dry black-or-white thing, obviously, but there is some truth to there being a slight socio-economic shift in the fanbases. Trust me when I say there's way more racial diversity in the people wearing Devils jerseys than there is with the people wearing Rangers jerseys, and it's clearly visible if you've been to your share of NY-NJ games. KEEP IN MIND, I'M TALKING ABOUT NEW JERSEY-BASED RANGERS FANS vs. NEW JERSEY DEVILS FANS, not all Rangers fans.


Edited by DJ Eco, 07 April 2014 - 11:50 AM.

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#45 SterioDesign

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:03 PM

for most people its all about the family, you grow up and your dad is feeding you what to like, i see a bunch of my buddies posting pictures of their babies with Habs gears on already and thats all they'll watch. If thats all you know and that you grow through that, what else can you do. Plus since Rangers are an original 6 well they have way more roots

 

But i guess there's always exceptions, i am one. My dad was a nordique fan and my sister was a Bruins fan. So i hated Sakic just cause it was my dad's fav player. And i was a goalie when i saw Brodeur drafted and he was french and from Quebec which again was all i knew since i was getting sport channels from quebec so that was that for me and why im a Devils fan.


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#46 mikepeluso8

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:05 PM

I'm not calling all Rangers fans (or the Santinis) Rockefeller types, just agreeing with someone else that I've noticed some of the higher end families around me in Hudson/Bergen Counties being Rangers fans. Granted, I wasn't even making the connection between the "theory" and the Santinis, as they live in NY and have every right to be proud Rangers fans without us criticizing them. I was only bringing up the Santinis in the context of joking that he maybe was one of those "kids who comes to the Rock in Rangers jerseys to cheer against the Devils."

 

But to take a step back a bit, I absolutely subscribe to the socio-economic theory, and hear me out:

 

It's not really up for debate that playing or being involved in hockey is generally a middle class/upper-middle class sport at the very least, it absolutely is (much like lacrosse, golf, etc.)... So, a family who's spending a ton of money on equipment and putting their kids into a hockey program in the 80s or 90s presumably had that interest or passion for hockey already, right (it's not like little league baseball or soccer where you can just throw your kids into these programs cheaply nowadays, it's an expensive path)? And obviously, most family-age adults in the 80s or early 90s (pre-1995) in New Jersey are prior Rangers fans. So these kids are mostly likely to grow up to be Rangers fans. Not making any monumental conclusions here, I know.

 

Now let's go to Hudson and Essex Counties and the surrounding areas, and spotlight a Devils fan like me. I played soccer for fun as a kid, very cheap sport. My parents are both immigrants and only really knew soccer. I had no background in hockey until I was 7 and we randomly went to a game with cheap tickets (in 1995). Boom, there it started, I had no prior allegiances. Now, where does the socio-economic debate kick in? Most kids in these two counties, Hudson and Essex (and beyond, even parts of Bergen and Passaic Counties) have the same background as me: immigrant background, no prior interest in hockey at all, mostly middle class or below; I'm not making this stuff up, it's just a simple demographic of this area. Someone from around here lands into hockey fandom by way of the New Jersey Devils being your local team, moreso now with the arena being in Newark and accessible by public transportation.

 

 

It's not a cut-and-dry black-or-white thing, obviously, but there is some truth to there being a slight socio-economic shift in the fanbases. Trust me when I say there's way more racial diversity in the people wearing Devils jerseys than there is with the people wearing Rangers jerseys, and it's clearly visible if you've been to your share of NY-NJ games. KEEP IN MIND, I'M TALKING ABOUT NEW JERSEY-BASED RANGERS FANS vs. NEW JERSEY DEVILS FANS, not all Rangers fans.

 

 

Interesting take.  

 

However, in my area (Morris County) centered around Mennen Arena and those youth teams, I noticed the EXACT opposite with Devils vs. Rangers fans.  That being said, we have all proven the point here that there is no good linear argument where you can say "Rangers fans are...." and "Devils fans are....", it just does not work based on all of our experiences and the areas we are from.  Shows you just how diverse NJ actually is from one town, to county, to area to the next...


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#47 DJ Eco

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:15 PM

Interesting take.  

 

However, in my area (Morris County) centered around Mennen Arena and those youth teams, I noticed the EXACT opposite with Devils vs. Rangers fans.

 

And I get that. A lot of things have changed. A "bandwagon Devils fan" who was 18 years old in 1995 is 37 now, probably has a family already haha... I totally agree that tides have probably shifted (and are shifting) and the lines are blurry now. Regardless, we'll have more and more Devils fans coming into the picture in 5, 10, 15 years from now. It's simple generational hockey fandom playing out. I'm still only 27 now and my friends and I are now starting to get season tickets en masse. We "go to games with our girlfriends" and who knows, in 5-10 years, we're "going to games with our kids".

 

The 2012 playoff run and the Yankee Stadium game (where, honestly, we might have slightly outnumbered Rangers fans) are examples of the younger 20-25 fanbase that will grow up very soon and do what I did 3 years ago when I found employment (start buying season tickets). We're not "losing fans" anytime soon.


Edited by DJ Eco, 07 April 2014 - 12:17 PM.

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#48 MadDog2020

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:20 PM

My mother worked at MSG in the 70's. If anyone was likely to become a Rags fan, it was me. My dad wasn't a huge hockey fan, but my mom was a big Ranger fan in the 60's and 70's. The first time I remember seeing a hockey game on TV when I was 6 years old, it was a Ranger game. Sam Rosen was reading out of town scores, and he says 'New Jersey winning over'... whoever, I don't remember who the other team was... I just heard the words 'New Jersey', thinking 'hey that's where I'm from'! and thinking 'this sport is AWESOME and we have a team right here where I'm from?' From that time on, I pestered my parents to take me to a Devils game. They did- and my first ever Devils game was, ironically enough, a loss to the Rangers. I cried. My mom laughed at me (she really did laugh too lol). This was in 1985. Over the years, I have converted my mother into one of the biggest Devils fans (who HATES the Rags now- she still likes her old Rags guys like Gilbert and Hatfield etc, but she has hated the Rags vehemently since the 1992 playoffs) you will ever meet. She's legit. She now loves the Devils and hates the Rags almost as much as I do. I'm proud of myself for that.


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#49 TheRedStorm

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:21 PM

Interesting take.  

 

However, in my area (Morris County) centered around Mennen Arena and those youth teams, I noticed the EXACT opposite with Devils vs. Rangers fans.  That being said, we have all proven the point here that there is no good linear argument where you can say "Rangers fans are...." and "Devils fans are....", it just does not work based on all of our experiences and the areas we are from.  Shows you just how diverse NJ actually is from one town, to county, to area to the next...

 

For years, Mennen Arena had a advertisement on the boards for the NY Rangers youth hockey program or boosters or something to that extent. That was pretty sad.


Edited by TheRedStorm, 07 April 2014 - 12:32 PM.

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#50 DJ Eco

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:35 PM

The first time I remember seeing a hockey game on TV when I was 6 years old, it was a Ranger game. Sam Rosen was reading out of town scores, and he says 'New Jersey winning over'... whoever, I don't remember who the other team was... I just heard the words 'New Jersey', thinking 'hey that's where I'm from'! and thinking 'this sport is AWESOME and we have a team right here where I'm from?'

 

You'd think more people would use this kind of common sense, but alas it isn't so. I'll never understand how kids who: 

 

a) weren't around for '94, b) can't afford tickets to MSG ever, and c) go to The Rock more times a year than they've been to MSG in their lifetimes

 

can be Rangers fans. I really don't get it, and that's definitely on Lou and his stranglehold on the marketing (or lack thereof) the team.


Edited by DJ Eco, 07 April 2014 - 12:35 PM.

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#51 CarterforPresident

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:44 PM

And they still do, Haddonfield, and Vorhees, are full of players from the flyers and Phillies. My barber (Haddonfield), did Charlie Emanuels hair as well.
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#52 CarterforPresident

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:46 PM

80-20. Least here in South Jersey

There is a Jets thread on this board but no Giants thread

the majority of football fans in NJ are giants fans but it's nowhere near 90%. Prob 60-40

I think the wine and cheese giants fans thing came from the Connecticut blue blood Giants fan base that went up into most of NE even when the Patriots came into existence. I never really see it among NY and NJ Giants fans.

and nowadays you can get season tickets for both teams quite easily since they built that disastrous generic metlife stadium


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#53 DJ Eco

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:46 PM

I totally get the whole Southern Jersey Flyers fan thing... Philly's a lot closer for most down there, MSG channel has left South Jersey mostly in the dark, etc... It's the kids in North Jersey like Agostino that really puzzle me.

 

 

80-20. Least here in South Jersey

 

I've seen mostly Eagles fans in South Jersey, very little Jets or Giants presence. I could be wrong though, I don't live there.


Edited by DJ Eco, 07 April 2014 - 12:47 PM.

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#54 CarterforPresident

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:53 PM

Philly is literal five minutes from me. From Camden its literally a minute. South Jersey is Phillies second hone for there sports teams.



Eagles first, giants second. The 80-20, was for Giants to Jets. And then PA theirs the whole Eagles, Steelers rivalry.

I totally get the whole Southern Jersey Flyers fan thing... Philly's a lot closer for most down there, MSG channel has left South Jersey mostly in the dark, etc... It's the kids in North Jersey like Agostino that really puzzle me.



I've seen mostly Eagles fans in South Jersey, very little Jets or Giants presence. I could be wrong though, I don't live there.


Edited by CarterforPresident, 07 April 2014 - 12:55 PM.

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#55 TheRedStorm

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:54 PM

I totally get the whole Southern Jersey Flyers fan thing... Philly's a lot closer for most down there, MSG channel has left South Jersey mostly in the dark, etc... It's the kids in North Jersey like Agostino that really puzzle me.

 

 

 

 

Here's a pretty good article, although more of a blog entry. I think it pretty much says all you need to know. Parent influenced.

 

http://www.newsday.c...night-1.7537880


Edited by TheRedStorm, 07 April 2014 - 12:56 PM.

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#56 DJ Eco

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:05 PM

Here's a pretty good article, although more of a blog entry. I think it pretty much says all you need to know. Parent influenced.

 

http://www.newsday.c...night-1.7537880

 

I get it, but I don't "get" it haha... Just don't get how a kid can have that connection with players he was barely around to experience; it's not like he's giving props to Lundqvist or McDonaugh. It's like a Queens kid born in 2013 who grows up to be a superfan of Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera and not David Wright or Matt Harvey (although, for the purposes of discussion, leave the actual Mets' stature out of it)...

 

I get that it's parent-influenced but I just don't "get it". Like, a kid now is 100% understandably a Lebron James Heat or Kevin Durrant OK fan and not a Jordan-influenced Bulls fan lol... 


Edited by DJ Eco, 07 April 2014 - 01:05 PM.

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#57 TheRedStorm

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:12 PM

I get it, but I don't "get" it haha... Just don't get how a kid can have that connection with players he was barely around to experience; it's not like he's giving props to Lundqvist or McDonaugh. It's like a Queens kid born in 2013 who grows up to be a superfan of Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera and not David Wright or Matt Harvey (although, for the purposes of discussion, leave the actual Mets' stature out of it)...

 

I get that it's parent-influenced but I just don't "get it". Like, a kid now is 100% understandably a Lebron James Heat or Kevin Durrant OK fan and not a Jordan-influenced Bulls fan lol... 

 

To a young boy, having a team or a relation to anything with your father to share and be a part of is huge. Not all sons are like this, mind you, but those who look up to their father and share a close bond are heavily influenced. If the father was a Flyer fan then young Kenny would be too. But as i said earlier it all goes back to the Devils being a generation behind and having to weed out the Mr. Agostino's over time.  


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#58 thecoffeecake

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:19 PM

Yea, this pisses me off. I have zero respect for rangers fans from here. You need to have a total lack of respect for where you're from. I disagree with someone who said there's not a strong sense of community in the state. At least where I'm from, on the Shore, the Jersey pride thing has taken hold in maybe the last five years with my generation. A lot of kids have Jersey related tattoos and bumper stickers, and some "Jersey" culture stores and restaurants have opened up near me. hopefully it's something that continues. I think we're just starting to see some demand for local goods and services, something we've been really behind the game on here. I also think the devils are starting to build some kind of following in south Jersey. Maybe it's just the minority that will always be there, or maybe something that will grow. Glad to hear Carlson was a Devils fan growing up. I was thinking the same thing about all these damn kids in the NHL from here growing up rangers fans.
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#59 DJ Eco

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:27 PM

To a young boy, having a team or a relation to anything with your father to share and be a part of is huge. Not all sons are like this, mind you, but those who look up to their father and share a close bond are heavily influenced. If the father was a Flyer fan then young Kenny would be too. But as i said earlier it all goes back to the Devils being a generation behind and having to weed out the Mr. Agostino's over time.  

 

That's a good point and some good insight. I guess I get that, at least if it's true in reference to this kid in particular. As a soccer fan as well, there are teams and players who I liked because my dad liked them. But the difference being, we'd watch these teams on TV on a Sunday together, it's not like it was some old school player.

 

BUT, I do get what you're saying.


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#60 hystyk28

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:35 PM

And i was a goalie when i saw Brodeur drafted and he was french and from Quebec which again was all i knew since i was getting sport channels from quebec so that was that for me and why im a Devils fan.


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