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In a Season of Problems, Brodeur was the Biggest


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#21 Devils Pride 26

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 11:42 AM

Anyone could back up Cory. How much worse than .900% can you get? There's always more goalies than homes for goalies. Give Cory 70 if you have to for Christ sake.

The problem isn't so much the .900%, backstrom had a similar number. The problem is having it played in 37 games when we'd be better off if it was 15 games or so
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#22 msweet

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 11:43 AM

This Blame-Marty is non-sense.

 

What killed us this year were (in order):

 

1. Our inability to score in shootouts. if we were 50% W, we'd be in the playoffs and this thread would not exist.

2. Our inability to score 5-5. Shut out too many times and we can't score even on backups and the other teams know it. (Blame Lou for having old scorers that can't score)

3. Our inability (blame the coach) to protect 3rd period and 2 goal leads. How many times do I have to see Zidlicy pinching down while we are up 3-1 or Jagr taking late 3rd period lazy shifts when we have the lead?


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#23 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 11:48 AM

Shutout 10 times, 10 shootout losses, offense that ranked 26th in goals, and 4 losses of 1-0 or 2-0. That's what killed the Devils. Brodeur was bad and should have played 10 less games, but those offensive numbers are a disaster.

 

10 shutouts and 12 one-goal games.  Devils went 0-10-0 in the shutouts and, somewhat amazingly, 2-5-5 in the one-goal games (Schneider was in net for 8 of those nine points earned). 

 

But yeah, in games where they scored 2+, the Devils went 32-14-11.  Sucks that they couldn't get to that total more often.   


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Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
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Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#24 Devils Pride 26

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 11:49 AM

Yes there are a number of things that went wrong. But to not hold Marty accountable for his terrible play is not helping
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#25 NJDevs4978

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 11:51 AM

Roberto Luongo, 2003-04: 25-33-14, ,931 SV%

Kari Lehtnonen, 2007-08: 17-22-5, .916 SV% (Hilariously, Hedberg was 14-15-3 with an .892 that year)

and so it goes.


Splits meaning save pct 'and' GAA. Cory's top five or close to it in both and has won under 50% of his games.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 08 April 2014 - 11:55 AM.

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#26 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 11:56 AM

Not to attack you, but that bolded statement makes no sense at all.  SV% is on average lower when you face less shots as a 'tender, hence you should be looking at SV% anyway.  GAA has nothing to do with shots against.  The GAA is evidence that the defense and the goalie was not scored on very often.  You can argue that the team defense kept shots low, but that only amplifies the value of the SV% because a goalie who faces less shots is going to get nailed when he does allow one, for example, 9/10 Saves is a 90% 9/11 is 81.1%.  On top of that, I agree that 2.50 GAA isn't really acceptable. 

Now to discuss Marty.  I think the guy is really done, but try telling him that.  My prediction is that he shop around and look elsewhere for more playing time and will not get what he wants, then come crawling back and accept Lou's deal, which is hopefully close to 1.5 to 2m/year.  A little bit higher than that would be acceptable and I think he'll accept that his role is a backup.  He'll play maybe 20-30 games (hopefully less) and he'll have to deal that.  The question is, do any of you believe that Kinkaid or Wedge is ready to be a serviceable backup? Would you trust either of them with 10-20 games(Or more if Cory would get injured, god forbid).  Wedgewood maybe, but I think he's still too young.  You don't have success in this league without two great goalies.  There's a reason the Devils went far in 2012 because they had too serviceable goalies who played well during the season.

 

 

(Less shots faced) x (save%) = GAA that will be less than (More shots faced) x (the same save%) per 60 minutes

 

Cory faced just about the same number of shots per game as Marty did and played behind the same players...didn't seem to affect his save% at all.   

 

I think the backup probably comes from outside the organization.  Kinkaid did not have a good second half, and Wedge appears to making progress, but still looks like he has a ways to go.  Marty can't stay...just too many distractions, and I don't think he'll ever truly think of himself as anyone's backup...I don't think he'll ever have a backup mentality.  I also think it's not going to be that hard to find someone who can better Marty's numbers...sadly, Marty's current level is near-bottom.  Consistently average to good from whoever replaces him will be an improvement.   


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 08 April 2014 - 12:02 PM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#27 RizzMB30

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 11:57 AM

This Blame-Marty is non-sense.

 

What killed us this year were (in order):

 

1. Our inability to score in shootouts. if we were 50% W, we'd be in the playoffs and this thread would not exist.

2. Our inability to score 5-5. Shut out too many times and we can't score even on backups and the other teams know it. (Blame Lou for having old scorers that can't score)

3. Our inability (blame the coach) to protect 3rd period and 2 goal leads. How many times do I have to see Zidlicy pinching down while we are up 3-1 or Jagr taking late 3rd period lazy shifts when we have the lead?

What? No.  That's on the players for not executing on defense.  The coach has no control over a deflection in front of our goalie with less than 30 seconds left or even 5 minutes left.  That is on the players. The coach can teach good positioning and decision-making, but when the game is on the line, there isn't much the coach can do.  What is inexcusable is having the CBGB line playing crucial minutes in the 3rd period.  I understand the trust in the line as a unit, but the only player I would trust from that line is Carter.


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#28 Risky

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 11:59 AM

This season rests on Lou's head.  For the Kovalchuk fiasco and for ignoring his best franchise player since he drafted Patrik Elias and letting him walk based on his ludicrous 1940s free agent negotiating style.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: for a man who fires people as if it were a bodily function, Lou should fire himself for the predicament he put this team in this year.

 

Ryder can drive him to the airport.


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#29 MantaRay

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 12:04 PM

I just knew this post was coming.

 

Yeah it has nothing to do with getting shutout ten times, not being able to score a goal in 9 of 11 shootouts, Ryder scoring one goal in three months yet still being third on the team in goals while a 42 year old is our leading scorer or Cory dropping the ball just about every time they tried to give it to him to run with.

 

This.


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#30 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 12:07 PM

Yes there are a number of things that went wrong. But to not hold Marty accountable for his terrible play is not helping

 

No one said Marty shouldn't be held accountable, but the thread title puts all the blame on him, which is wrong.


This season rests on Lou's head.  For the Kovalchuk fiasco and for ignoring his best franchise player since he drafted Patrik Elias and letting him walk based on his ludicrous 1940s free agent negotiating style.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: for a man who fires people as if it were a bodily function, Lou should fire himself for the predicament he put this team in this year.

 

Ryder can drive him to the airport.

 

Which Kovy fiasco is Lou's fault? The one where the bankrupt owner pushed to have him signed at all costs or the one where Kovalchuk retired at age 30 to go home?


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#31 Triumph

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 12:11 PM

This Blame-Marty is non-sense.

 

What killed us this year were (in order):

 

1. Our inability to score in shootouts. if we were 50% W, we'd be in the playoffs and this thread would not exist.

2. Our inability to score 5-5. Shut out too many times and we can't score even on backups and the other teams know it. (Blame Lou for having old scorers that can't score)

3. Our inability (blame the coach) to protect 3rd period and 2 goal leads. How many times do I have to see Zidlicy pinching down while we are up 3-1 or Jagr taking late 3rd period lazy shifts when we have the lead?

 

Hahaha.  Blame Brodeur is nonense, but the inability to protect leads is on the coach, and has nothing to do with the goalie.  Well, now I've seen everything.


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#32 MantaRay

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 12:11 PM

This season rests on Lou's head.  For the Kovalchuk fiasco and for ignoring his best franchise player since he drafted Patrik Elias and letting him walk based on his ludicrous 1940s free agent negotiating style.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: for a man who fires people as if it were a bodily function, Lou should fire himself for the predicament he put this team in this year.

 

Ryder can drive him to the airport.

 

How do you blame Lou for Kovalchuk??? 

 

a.  Lou never wanted him, Vanderbeek pressured Lou to make that move.  

b.  Kovalchuk "retired", Lou didn't force him to do it.

 

I think Lou did a great job of getting replacement for him.  Jagr, Clowe and Brunner were great signings (for the price), and on paper Ryder was a good signing.   I am more concerned about our drafting which hasn't done anything since Zach which I put on Conte.


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#33 RizzMB30

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 12:32 PM

How do you blame Lou for Kovalchuk??? 

 

a.  Lou never wanted him, Vanderbeek pressured Lou to make that move.  

b.  Kovalchuk "retired", Lou didn't force him to do it.

 

I think Lou did a great job of getting replacement for him.  Jagr, Clowe and Brunner were great signings (for the price), and on paper Ryder was a good signing.   I am more concerned about our drafting which hasn't done anything since Zach which I put on Conte.

Yes, but you can't say that ALL of our recent draft picks have been horrible.  There's Henrique, Larsson, Fayne and probably a few others that I can't look up atm.


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#34 Marshall

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 12:44 PM

#shouldof played Marty more because he just wins amirite?


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#35 AEWHistory

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 12:54 PM

I don't want to sound melodramatic, but I'm not sure what I'll do if Marty is brought back next season.

 

I have absolutely no interest in going through this BS again where Marty gets starts solely because of his legacy.

 

+1

 

If they do bring him back then I wonder when they'll be handing out tickets for 'legacy' fans.  At some point Marty will have to realize that life just doesn't work like that.  We don't get tickets just because we followed the Devils thru the "suck era" and he shouldnt be getting any (more) passes for what he did in the past.  As it is he will be in the HoF, his number will be retired, and he will always be loved and respected and damn appreciated by this fan base.  Why does he have to ruin that?  Time catches us all... does he think he isn't human?


Edited by AEWHistory, 08 April 2014 - 12:55 PM.

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#36 devilsrule33

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 01:06 PM

This Blame-Marty is non-sense.

 

What killed us this year were (in order):

 

1. Our inability to score in shootouts. if we were 50% W, we'd be in the playoffs and this thread would not exist.

2. Our inability to score 5-5. Shut out too many times and we can't score even on backups and the other teams know it. (Blame Lou for having old scorers that can't score)

3. Our inability (blame the coach) to protect 3rd period and 2 goal leads. How many times do I have to see Zidlicy pinching down while we are up 3-1 or Jagr taking late 3rd period lazy shifts when we have the lead?

 

How many times were the Devils up two goals in the 3rd this year and blew the lead? Once (in Edmonton)? Any other game? 

 

It's funny how many fans were upset about the Devils playing too passive of a 3rd period when their opponents tied the game with the net empty 3 games in a row, but you feel it was the opposite? Each group wants to blame the coach, but no one can get on the same page with the strategy in the 3rd period.

 

I think this is a perfect example of the Brodeur fanboys, and there are a ton of them out there. Saying Brodeur was not part of the reason the Devils missed the playoffs is a way bigger stretch than saying he was the reason.


Edited by devilsrule33, 08 April 2014 - 01:19 PM.

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#37 devilsrule33

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 01:13 PM

How do you blame Lou for Kovalchuk??? 

 

a.  Lou never wanted him, Vanderbeek pressured Lou to make that move.  

b.  Kovalchuk "retired", Lou didn't force him to do it.

 

I think Lou did a great job of getting replacement for him.  Jagr, Clowe and Brunner were great signings (for the price), and on paper Ryder was a good signing.   I am more concerned about our drafting which hasn't done anything since Zach which I put on Conte.

 

Enough with the Lou never wanted him. He traded for the guy, and of course wanted him. Was he comfortable giving out a 17-year $100 million deal. From all accounts, not really. But at the time, he got the cap number down, so I don't think he was that upset about it.


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#38 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 01:17 PM

Quick question...is a "fanboy" the same thing as a "manchild?"  Just wondering...

 

Brodeur was not great this season, but he surely isn't the number 1 reason this team is going to miss the playoffs.  The fact that they can't score consistently and, as others have pointed out, have been shutout in over 12% of their games this season is the main problem here.  Should Cory have started more...sure.  I think most reasonable people would agree with that.  But too say that Marty "killed this season" and attempting to blame everything on him is ludicrous. 


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#39 bobilly45

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 01:28 PM

You cant blame a season on one person. Its a TEAM sport, the team as a whole sucked and couldnt win big games vs bottom of the league teams. Coaches are also to blame as they are responsible for the on ice product.

Anyone whose ever played a team sport knows this simple saying, "you win as a team, you lose as a team". Every person on the team,the coaches, and even lou are to blame for the season. Even with that if we only went 3/11in the shootouts we would at.least still be in the race.

With that said this is only the first time theyve missed the playoffs 2 years in a row since 1987 (27yrs). THERE ARE 28 other teams that would love to say that. (Redwings are the only ones more consistant then
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#40 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 01:34 PM


 

I think this is a perfect example of the Brodeur fanboys, and there are a ton of them out there. Saying Brodeur was not part of the reason the Devils missed the playoffs is a way bigger stretch than saying he was the reason.

 

Has anyone said Brodeur wasn't part of the reason? It looks like everyone is in agreement that Brodeur played terribly.


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