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2014 Stanley Cup Playoffs thread


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#1041 devilsrule33

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 11:35 PM

2003 Ottawa comes to mind right off the bat. People talk about Hank like he's a tremendous big game player or the second coming. Even the "king" moniker. What exactly has he won? In ten years in the league he has one trip to the conference finals where he was out dueled by a 40 year old

 

I wouldn't say Brodeur was the difference. The Sens had a lot more talent, but the Devils were a historically good defensive team and Lalime was terrible at times. You need a better example than that.

 

I get many of you are around Rangers fans that want to crown him as the greatest goalie. He isn't that, but he is a damn good goalie and one of the best in the NHL. He's won an Olympic Gold. That's something.

 

If he loses this series, does he deserve to take blame? I guess it depends on what happens in game 7, but the Rangers have been shutout twice. They are the underdogs and Lundqvist has done his job to get them here.

 

A lot of success is all about situations, and Brodeur has been great but also in great situations. Lundqvist has not been in great situations. But guess what, he's got time, and he still has a chance to win a game 7 again.


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#1042 NJDevs26

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 01:05 AM

Even if you want to say 2003 Ottawa was an example of Marty stealing a series, he's also had plenty of series where we've lost that we shouldn't have.


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#1043 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 08:25 AM

Totally unfair. Unless you are saying Brodeur is not a great one. I can't think of one series where Brodeur ever found a way to win a series by himself or was the big difference for an underdog Devils playoff team.

 

Hate the Rangers. Hate Lundqvist, but let's not bring him down unfairly.

 

The last 3 games of the 2000 ECF through the end of the finals that year.  Brodeur was an absolute beast during that stretch. 


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#1044 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 08:47 AM

Whether people want to claim Brodeur "stole" a series or not, during three Cup-winning runs, he put up save%s of .927, .927, and .934.  There's something to be said for simply being terrific, so that your team isn't in the position of having to overcome you.  A lot of team would kill for a goalie who can do that just once. 


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Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
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It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#1045 SMantzas

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 09:13 AM

McKenzie stated that there's a chance one of Malkin or Crosby are out if the Penguins blow the series. Not that I believe they would do that, but you have to think if the Pens don't win another Cup in their tenure, it's an absolute failure

Edited by SMantzas, 12 May 2014 - 09:13 AM.

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#1046 95Crash

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 09:23 AM

Crosby slew foots Girardi:

 

852557022.gif?1399857309

 

 

Lundqvist squirts water on Crosby:

 

https://vine.co/v/MgIKZTLpHWz


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#1047 Devilsfan118

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 09:49 AM

Series is getting ugly.

 

And the Rangers have definitely gotten to Crosby.  He looks frustrated.


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#1048 MadDog2020

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 09:57 AM

Wow that slewfoot was pretty bad. Was there a penalty called? I had shut it off at that point.
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#1049 lazer

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 10:09 AM

just the hit to the back of the leg was enough besides the trip itself.

 

going back to the last lockout and the charity game in AC was marty vs hanky only in a light atmosphere...Lundqvist took it real damn serious and stopped like 30 shots in the 1st period lol...was an amazing performance by him. Marty was standing and  watching them go 5 hole, now you get the comparison was just a side note in sports psychology.


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#1050 devilsrule33

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 10:31 AM

Whether people want to claim Brodeur "stole" a series or not, during three Cup-winning runs, he put up save%s of .927, .927, and .934.  There's something to be said for simply being terrific, so that your team isn't in the position of having to overcome you.  A lot of team would kill for a goalie who can do that just once. 

 

Brodeur was excellent in all 3 Cup runs, but the part that helps is being on great teams. For a decade he was on amazing teams. Even if people want to say the 2012 Rangers were a great team (I think mostly because of Henrik), and he disappointed by not having an excellent Conference Finals...that's 1 year.

 

Brodeur and the Devils have had plenty of disappointing exits in the playoffs as the Division winners or Conference Championships or just a favourite, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001 (really bad in the Finals), 2002, 2006...There were some great performances there, but if we are judging him as harshly as some are judging Lundqvist...well there you go.

 

I don't want to debate Brodeur vs Lundqvist because it's not worth debating at this time and probably never will be. Lundqvist is a great goalie though. 


Edited by devilsrule33, 12 May 2014 - 11:31 AM.

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"The Stanley Cup has fallen from the Stars. The new millennium has its first Stanley Cup Champion, and it's the New Jersey Devils." Mike Miller calling the Devils winning the Stanley Cup.

"It goes to the captain and then there are handoffs during a skate around the ice" Mike Emrick as Scott Stevens is being presented the Stanley Cup.


#1051 Lateralous

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 10:33 AM

The last 3 games of the 2000 ECF through the end of the finals that year.  Brodeur was an absolute beast during that stretch. 

 

Agreed.  I'm in the camp that thinks Brodeur has underperformed way too many times in the playoffs during his career but I've also always felt he never got the credit he deserved for that playoff run in 2000.  Everyone remembers Stevens and Elias from the Flyers game 7 but Brodeur made a ton of great saves on 30 something shots and he was interfered with on the only one that actually went in.  In the finals, we don't win the cup with the way Belfour was playing once he put down the cough syrup unless Brodeur plays the absolute best hockey of his career, which he did.  I know the stats were much shinier in 2003 when he played behind an airtight defense but 2000 will always be the crown jewel of his career for me.  

 

That being said, to DR33's point, the number of series where Brodeur was actually the difference in the playoffs in his career is embarrassingly low given his reputation and number of years he played in the playoffs.    

 

As for Lundqvist, he is a great goalie but there are a lot of black marks on his record as well when it counts.  Losing a shoot out to Brian Boucher in the last game of the season in 2010 to make the playoffs is another one that I did not see mentioned.      


Edited by Lateralous, 12 May 2014 - 10:39 AM.

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#1052 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 11:29 AM

Agreed.  I'm in the camp that thinks Brodeur has underperformed way too many times in the playoffs during his career but I've also always felt he never got the credit he deserved for that playoff run in 2000.  Everyone remembers Stevens and Elias from the Flyers game 7 but Brodeur made a ton of great saves on 30 something shots and he was interfered with on the only one that actually went in.  In the finals, we don't win the cup with the way Belfour was playing once he put down the cough syrup unless Brodeur plays the absolute best hockey of his career, which he did.  I know the stats were much shinier in 2003 when he played behind an airtight defense but 2000 will always be the crown jewel of his career for me.  

 

That being said, to DR33's point, the number of series where Brodeur was actually the difference in the playoffs in his career is embarrassingly low given his reputation and number of years he played in the playoffs.    

 

As for Lundqvist, he is a great goalie but there are a lot of black marks on his record as well when it counts.  Losing a shoot out to Brian Boucher in the last game of the season in 2010 to make the playoffs is another one that I did not see mentioned.      

 

I think that's true of all of the greats, though. It takes a good team to win the cup, so there will be series where the goalie isn't the be all end all. For example, nobody discredits Ken Dryden's Cups even though he played behind an all-star team for them. He had his moments when he stole a game or series and he had his moments where he was a passenger. I think the same goes for Brodeur and most high-end goalies. What makes the greats great is there ability to be the guy when it's their turn. Lundqvist still has that opportunity of course. He's only 32. Hell, this may be his year (shudder).


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#1053 Triumph

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 01:19 PM

Brodeur was excellent in all 3 Cup runs, but the part that helps is being on great teams. For a decade he was on amazing teams. Even if people want to say the 2012 Rangers were a great team (I think mostly because of Henrik), and he disappointed by not having an excellent Conference Finals...that's 1 year.

 

Brodeur and the Devils have had plenty of disappointing exits in the playoffs as the Division winners or Conference Championships or just a favourite, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001 (really bad in the Finals), 2002, 2006...There were some great performances there, but if we are judging him as harshly as some are judging Lundqvist...well there you go.

 

I don't want to debate Brodeur vs Lundqvist because it's not worth debating at this time and probably never will be. Lundqvist is a great goalie though. 

 

2006?  Nah, let's shelve that.  Brodeur wasn't great that year - well, he was very good in some games, and he put up a very solid SV% - but I don't think that was a great team by any means, it's just that luck made it seem like it was.  I also think it's silly to talk about 'playoff failures' with the Devils - that's just how it is with dominant teams generally.  NJ just had more years where they lost in the 1st round than you'd expect.


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#1054 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 01:31 PM

Part of the problem with 97-99 was that Holik would promptly disappear offensively in the playoffs (as would other players), and he was being counted on to score back then.  Marty really wasn't bad in 97 or 98.  In 99, he was bad enough (.856 save%) that SI wrote a blurb about how his career had reached a crossroads.  2000 squelched any further talk of that.   


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#1055 devilsrule33

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 01:31 PM

2006?  Nah, let's shelve that.  Brodeur wasn't great that year - well, he was very good in some games, and he put up a very solid SV% - but I don't think that was a great team by any means, it's just that luck made it seem like it was.  I also think it's silly to talk about 'playoff failures' with the Devils - that's just how it is with dominant teams generally.  NJ just had more years where they lost in the 1st round than you'd expect.

 

I'm in agreement with you. The 2006 Devils were not a great team in the same way that the 2012 Rangers weren't a great team either. I am not trying to be harsh on Brodeur because I believe you need to be...I am just saying that if people here want to be really tough on Lundqvist, then we can do the very same for Brodeur. Both are unfair.


Edited by devilsrule33, 12 May 2014 - 01:48 PM.

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"The Stanley Cup has fallen from the Stars. The new millennium has its first Stanley Cup Champion, and it's the New Jersey Devils." Mike Miller calling the Devils winning the Stanley Cup.

"It goes to the captain and then there are handoffs during a skate around the ice" Mike Emrick as Scott Stevens is being presented the Stanley Cup.


#1056 MadDog2020

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 02:28 PM

Good read: http://deadspin.com/...dium=socialflow
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#1057 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 03:51 PM

 

It's probably a little early to say that about the Wild (it's only Year 2 of the Parise-Suter Era).  They haven't lost the series to the Blackhawks YET.  And as we know, the NHL playoffs are often a bit of a crapshoot.  Elite teams do stumble and leave the door open for the next-tier, Minnesota-types. 

 

Those kinds of contracts are NEVER a good idea from a long-term standpoint anyway, but GMs can never help themselves. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#1058 sundstrom

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 04:15 PM

you cannot point to chicago without acknowledging that they had a decade of futility that allowed for high draft picks like kane, toews, seabrook and keith as headliners. yes, they made some terrific moves that have really worked out like hossa but patrick sharp - who is extremely important to that team, was a diamond in the rough that they got in a nothing trade with philly. the last time i can remember something like that happening was markus naslund and vancouver.

 

chicago is disgustingly stacked and hitting on high draft picks and locking them up at the right time.

 

i actually think minny is in pretty good shape and for the next 4-5 years, did very well with parise and suter. after that, who the hell knows - the CBA will expire and/or the cap could be $85MM.


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#1059 devilsrule33

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 04:17 PM

It's probably a little early to say that about the Wild (it's only Year 2 of the Parise-Suter Era).  They haven't lost the series to the Blackhawks YET.  And as we know, the NHL playoffs are often a bit of a crapshoot.  Elite teams do stumble and leave the door open for the next-tier, Minnesota-types. 

 

Those kinds of contracts are NEVER a good idea from a long-term standpoint anyway, but GMs can never help themselves. 

 

I thought that article was pretty bad. The Wild are down 3-2 in the 2nd round against the defending Stanley Cup Champions. The day those contracts were signed, I bet everyone in the Wild organization would have signed up for this result. He probably wrote this article after game 5 of the 1st round and just couldn't wait any longer.

 

I don't think the Wild signed those contracts because they felt it made them instead Cup contenders. They had a treadmill hockey team and a fan base that was getting tired of them doing nothing. This was to give the organization a spark. Keep the fans happy and go back to selling out all night. Over time, perhaps they could add a few pieces and be a contender.

 

There is no blue print to being a great team. You need to draft well, of course, but for every Chicago and Pittsburgh, there is a Florida or Edmonton or NYI. Chicago was terrible forever before being good. Not everyone wants to go that route, and like Edmonton has shown, that process might never end.

 

He loses a lot of his argument when he brings up Boston and Chara. He was a UFA signing. Is he the exception? Maybe, but the Wild might have thought Suter could be the next Chara for them. Chara is their best player. A UFA signing.  Also, Parise right now is second in playoff scoring. They have a fantastic player that helped them get this far. Of you course you can't win a Stanley Cup only on free agent signings, but you can get a lot better and rely on trades and drafting to get you the rest of the way.

 

Now say Parise signed with the Devils, he was home grown talent, but he wasn't taking any discount to sign here. If he ended up choosing the Devils, it be at market price. The Devils signed Kovalchuk at a price higher than any other team in free agency. Would that be trying to buy a Cup according to this writer? I don't think so. You still have the young defense. You still can make the Schneider trade. So you have two high priced players signed in free agency, but you can still build a great team around them.

 

The Wild can still do that...


Edited by devilsrule33, 12 May 2014 - 05:05 PM.

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"It goes to the captain and then there are handoffs during a skate around the ice" Mike Emrick as Scott Stevens is being presented the Stanley Cup.


#1060 95Crash

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 05:00 PM

I'm surprised, too, at the timing of that article. The Wild look pretty good to me, and they are headed in the right direction.


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