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#121 Sneax

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 05:47 PM

Well the Zid stuff I'm 100percent with you, it is probably a similar situation to what gelinas MIGHT turn out to be (that might is on the offensive upside he's not 100percent proven). Guys like that are important and there are tons of guys that hate it. Kovy as well, his offensive upside for us was huge. There is a point at which the offense they bring can mitigate their downsides, which isn't the case for the other type of player you are talking about.

 

With guys like ryder I can understand that constant hate, namely because its more about what standard of player this team is used to. It's not gionta type players that we are brainwashed into wanting, it's GOOD 2 way players. Ryder was not exactly lighting it up this year I think he had sub 20 goals. For that kind of production I would much rather bring in a guy that can do everything. Ryder can do 1 thing and he wasn't that spectacular at it. That's where I think a lot of the hate comes from. We as devils fans are just used to overall good players.


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#122 DJ Eco

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 09:50 AM

Well the Zid stuff I'm 100percent with you, it is probably a similar situation to what gelinas MIGHT turn out to be (that might is on the offensive upside he's not 100percent proven). Guys like that are important and there are tons of guys that hate it. Kovy as well, his offensive upside for us was huge. There is a point at which the offense they bring can mitigate their downsides, which isn't the case for the other type of player you are talking about.

 

With guys like ryder I can understand that constant hate, namely because its more about what standard of player this team is used to. It's not gionta type players that we are brainwashed into wanting, it's GOOD 2 way players. Ryder was not exactly lighting it up this year I think he had sub 20 goals. For that kind of production I would much rather bring in a guy that can do everything. Ryder can do 1 thing and he wasn't that spectacular at it. That's where I think a lot of the hate comes from. We as devils fans are just used to overall good players.

 

I'm with you there, I agree.


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#123 SterioDesign

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 10:14 AM

I feel like we all complain about how inept our offense is, how inept "New Jersey Devils offense" is. But when a player doesn't play "New Jersey Devils hockey", he gets crucified. It's like we're all programmed to want more Giontas and Carters on the team no matter how much we crap on them.
 
That kinda explains why so many Devils fans still didn't like Kovalchuk by the second half of our 2011-2012 season; you still heard boos and jeers when he'd touch the puck during a 2-3 game goalless drought. I feel like we're almost brainwashed to want the Giontas and Salvadors as the face of our Devils. Anything else (Kovys and Zidlickys of the game) is too edgy and not "safe".
 
It's something I've noticed in a large group of our fanbase, where a lot of Devils fans just can't stand guys like Ryder, Zidlicky, or Kovalchuk (when he was here), yet these guys will be top 3, 4, or 5 in the points department at any given point in the season. We'll complain about how we don't score, we play too defensively, but then sh!t on Zidlicky's or Ryder's two-way game.... Doesn't make sense. If our team actually went out and got a talent like Evander Kane or Alexander Semin, he could score 30+ goals but our fanbase would still hate him.


I completely agree with this and for devils fans the kool-aid is very very very strong in many many departments and lots of fans are brainwashed to like certain things and accept and defend them no matter what.
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#124 Zubie#8

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 11:04 PM

Idk how you can compare Ryder to Zid and Kovy.

When Zidlicky isn't scoring he helps on the power play, generates offense for others and is a play maker. When Kovy wasn't scoring he helped on the power play, PK, helped genrate offense for others and was a playmaker.

When Ryder isn't scoring he contributes NOTHING. And goal scoring is the one thing we pay him for so that's why he hurts the team and can't be compared to the other two. If he isn't scoring then he just drags down his linemates.
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#125 DJ Eco

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 11:46 AM

Idk how you can compare Ryder to Zid and Kovy.

When Zidlicky isn't scoring he helps on the power play, generates offense for others and is a play maker. When Kovy wasn't scoring he helped on the power play, PK, helped genrate offense for others and was a playmaker.

When Ryder isn't scoring he contributes NOTHING. And goal scoring is the one thing we pay him for so that's why he hurts the team and can't be compared to the other two. If he isn't scoring then he just drags down his linemates.

 

I mentioned them together as part of the common thread that I've noticed that they've been crapped on by our fanbase pretty often (in the stands, on Facebook, and sometimes on here), despite all consistently being near the upper echelon of our points-leaders.

 

That Ryder was streaky and doesn't have a great two-way game should come as a surprise to no one. There were maybe 3 or 4 games during his goalless drought that I thought he was particularly awful. Otherwise, he was getting off shots (which is his job) and in some cases playing better than some of the games he was scoring in. I remember one particular game right in the heat of his drought, where he had 4 glorious shots on goal; one hit the crossbar, others where the goalie stood on his head, etc... while the team as a whole was held to 15 shots and we were shutout.

 

To put it all in perspective, Ryder's goals or points this year are close to or better than the following list of players:

 

Tomas Tatar, Carl Hagelin, Brian Gionta, Ryan Callahan, RJ Umberger, Mike Ribeiro, Mika Zibanejad, Jiri Tlusty, Milan Michalek, Mason Raymond, Tomas Plekanec, Joffrey Lupul, Alexander Semin, Cam Atkinson, Matt Read, etc., etc., etc...

 

All guys we'd drop our pants for Lou to get on our team. In many cases, some of the guys I listed are making 2, 3, even 4 million more than Ryder. I know you're gonna pick the odd 2 or 3 of that list and say "Oh, but they kill penalties too!" but my general point remains. People who expected more from the 33 year old Ryder had irrational expectations.

 

The larger issues and holes in our roster only exacerbates Ryder's negatives, but otherwise I continue to think he was a good signing. It's the additional signings we DIDN'T MAKE that make him look like a bad signing.


Edited by DJ Eco, 21 April 2014 - 11:52 AM.

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#126 Triumph

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 12:25 PM

Look, Ryder at 18 goals isn't doing enough to stay on an NHL team, because he doesn't do anything else at all.  He doesn't help out your other players, he's not particularly good at passing, he can't generate offense for other players really.  All of the guys you listed except maybe Ribeiro do more to help out a team in other ways.

 

The Devils took away the best center for him, which was Loktionov, who could gain the zone with the puck and had the vision to find a guy like Ryder in traffic.  Then they took away Henrique who doesn't really have that vision but still has speed enough to gain the zone.  What they gave him was Dainius Zubrus or Stephen Gionta which will just not be good enough.


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#127 EdgeControl

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 02:52 PM

Ryder is on his 4th team in 5 years, its not just devils fans who hate on his game


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#128 sokar

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:18 PM

Look, Ryder at 18 goals isn't doing enough to stay on an NHL team, because he doesn't do anything else at all.  He doesn't help out your other players, he's not particularly good at passing, he can't generate offense for other players really.  All of the guys you listed except maybe Ribeiro do more to help out a team in other ways.

 

The Devils took away the best center for him, which was Loktionov, who could gain the zone with the puck and had the vision to find a guy like Ryder in traffic.  Then they took away Henrique who doesn't really have that vision but still has speed enough to gain the zone.  What they gave him was Dainius Zubrus or Stephen Gionta which will just not be good enough.

You think Lou might try and traded him in the off season, and could we get for him


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#129 DJ Eco

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:22 PM

Ryder is on his 4th team in 5 years, its not just devils fans who hate on his game

 

Trrruuuue.


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#130 devilsrule33

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:33 PM

Ryder is on his 4th team in 5 years, its not just devils fans who hate on his game

 

I don't buy that. Everyone knows what you are getting, but the Bruins that had Ryder for two dud years (18-15-33, 18-21-41), and they were in the running with the Devils for Ryder's services. He chose the Devils. He was traded once in that time. No biggie.


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#131 Pepperkorn

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 05:48 PM

I completely agree with this and for devils fans the kool-aid is very very very strong in many many departments and lots of fans are brainwashed to like certain things and accept and defend them no matter what.

I don't think a lot of people understand Devils hockey -- or hockey for that matter. 

 

Both sides just lose track of hockey getting completely involved with being "right" never mind that their definition of right changes with the wind. 

 

For every person dubbed a kool-aid chugger, there is a fellow mental midget going off on how brainwashed Devils fans are.


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