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The 2014 NJ Devils Offseason Thread


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#501 Devils731

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 08:40 AM

Very nice. 2-way is just so he plays anywhere, I'd sign on the dotted line if I were him too


2 way doesn't change where he can play, it means he gets paid less if he's in the AHL.
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#502 sundstrom

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 08:57 AM

2 way doesn't change where he can play, it means he gets paid less if he's in the AHL.

 

it also means he can go back and forth without having to pass through waivers, i believe.


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#503 RizzMB30

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:01 AM

it also means he can go back and forth without having to pass through waivers, i believe.

This is what I was referring to.  Hopefully Sestito or Gionta down in the minors.  I know I should hold my breath. 


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#504 The 29th Pick

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:07 AM

This is what I was referring to.  Hopefully Sestito or Gionta down in the minors.  I know I should hold my breath. 

as long as Pete's coaching this team, Gionta is playing with the big club


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#505 Daniel

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:07 AM

I've definitely been a drinker of Lou-Aid for a while, but I'm starting to get the feeling that this is going to be a disastrous offseason.  I know just having discussions with the fourth liners doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it could be a sign that there really isn't much of a plan to improve the forward depth.  (As I said, I don't really have a problem with those players as such, but the fact that they're still in the discussion is an indicator of what else is there, i.e. not much).

 

And the fact that we've heard about "discussions" with other players, but only the usual boilerplate that Lou would like to have Fayne back (same stuff we heard with Brian Gionta, Clarkson and Martin) seems to me that there's not much of an effort there, and that he's not going to be re-signed.  It would be criminal if Fayne goes, but Salvador stays.  Then of course there's the potential disaster of losing Gelinas or Larsson to waivers (I believe Gelinas is waiver eligible, and I know Larsson is).  The only thing I'm taking as a given at this point is that Volchenkov gets bought out.  That doesn't really solve much.

 

In a way, the analytics person might cause Lou to double down is his attachment to players like Salvador, who, when you think about it, doesn't even bring much to the table in terms of his supposed intangibles and leadership.  Jagr was obviously the de facto captain this year, and I don't see why Zajac couldn't handle the lockerroom stuff just as well or at least sufficiently. And even if you assume the guy still has his "clutchness" for playoff hockey (and it's a doubtful premise that he ever had it) it isn't worth anything if you can't get to the playoffs, or if you end up facing Boston in the first round.


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#506 Triumph

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:13 AM

it also means he can go back and forth without having to pass through waivers, i believe.

 

This better be a joke.  If so it's a good one.


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#507 fsu1852

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:30 AM

it also means he can go back and forth without having to pass through waivers, i believe.

 

Nah, just means he can take a lower salary if he is in the AHL


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#508 devilsrule33

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:37 AM

I've definitely been a drinker of Lou-Aid for a while, but I'm starting to get the feeling that this is going to be a disastrous offseason.  I know just having discussions with the fourth liners doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it could be a sign that there really isn't much of a plan to improve the forward depth.  (As I said, I don't really have a problem with those players as such, but the fact that they're still in the discussion is an indicator of what else is there, i.e. not much).

 

And the fact that we've heard about "discussions" with other players, but only the usual boilerplate that Lou would like to have Fayne back (same stuff we heard with Brian Gionta, Clarkson and Martin) seems to me that there's not much of an effort there, and that he's not going to be re-signed.  It would be criminal if Fayne goes, but Salvador stays.  Then of course there's the potential disaster of losing Gelinas or Larsson to waivers (I believe Gelinas is waiver eligible, and I know Larsson is).  The only thing I'm taking as a given at this point is that Volchenkov gets bought out.  That doesn't really solve much.

 

In a way, the analytics person might cause Lou to double down is his attachment to players like Salvador, who, when you think about it, doesn't even bring much to the table in terms of his supposed intangibles and leadership.  Jagr was obviously the de facto captain this year, and I don't see why Zajac couldn't handle the lockerroom stuff just as well or at least sufficiently. And even if you assume the guy still has his "clutchness" for playoff hockey (and it's a doubtful premise that he ever had it) it isn't worth anything if you can't get to the playoffs, or if you end up facing Boston in the first round.

 

I really think this is a great off-season to judge if Lou is the right GM for the future (No, he won't ever be fired, but the average fans needs to judge him like any other GM and forget his name is Lou) or where this team might go. I know he might be handcuffed in some respects, and I know rebuilding is never on the table for him, but after two crummy years (not all his fault), he is either seeing what's wrong with this team or not.

 

Salvador/Volch over Fayne would be criminal. Bringing back the entire 4th line...stupid. Thinking that this forward group is remotely good enough,,,not a chance.

 

I fvcking hate talk about leadership. Leaders are used for players that win or are old and sucky. I'm taking talent over all the BS intangibles all day. Everything Lou talks about is the character and leadership this guy brings (Jagr, Zidlicky...already). We've got a lineup full of it apparently so don't bring anymore guys back for that lame reason. Insert skill into your lineup. The narrative changes when you win who the leaders are.

 

A team full of talent and skill is beating team leadership.

 

It be great to know what Lou's thought process is with the buyout. Is he even considering guys like Salvador or Zubrus. It's hard to think he is when he gave them both ridiculous 3-year contracts.


Edited by devilsrule33, 18 June 2014 - 09:39 AM.

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#509 The 29th Pick

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:44 AM

I agree with this is Lou's off-season to shine as a GM

 

Good is not good enough when better is expected

 

let's see what he'll do


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#510 DJ Eco

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:54 AM

I know he might be handcuffed in some respects, and I know rebuilding is never on the table for him, but after two crummy years (not all his fault), he is either seeing what's wrong with this team or not.

 

You said everything I wanted to say. I'd edit that last part to read:

 

After a few crummy years, we will either see if he's what's wrong for this team or not. Our offseasons have been a circus, he has a fresh slate and a bigger wallet than he ever had before, and he better make it work for us.


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#511 Triumph

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 10:02 AM

Salvador over Fayne is a false equivalency - Fayne is a UFA.  He can go wherever he likes.

 

One of the issues this team has is that its two best forwards are also its two oldest players.  You can't play Jagr 21 minutes a game every night.  Elias was getting his ice time cut seriously in the 2nd half of the season.  That means having a 4th line that can take 9-10 minutes of ES time if necessary.  Still, spending a bunch of money on a 4th line is stupid.  If you can get CBGB back for $3M, it's probably worth it, but if they're getting $4M, that's a large mistake.

 

Re-signing Sislo is a good move for depth, he can definitely play a 4th line role.  I'm hoping they'll keep TImmins, he seems like he could play 4th line if need be.  People also forget that your top 12 forwards are not the only players who will play.


Edited by Triumph, 18 June 2014 - 10:07 AM.

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#512 SMantzas

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 10:15 AM

Can someone let me know how the cap/bonus overage works for this year? Capgeek says we went over last year between 2-3 million, so that amount can't be used this year? Also, does it factor into what we can do in the summer in terms of how much we can go over the cap before the start of the season?


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#513 devilsrule33

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 10:24 AM

Salvador over Fayne is a false equivalency - Fayne is a UFA.  He can go wherever he likes.

 

One of the issues this team has is that its two best forwards are also its two oldest players.  You can't play Jagr 21 minutes a game every night.  Elias was getting his ice time cut seriously in the 2nd half of the season.  That means having a 4th line that can take 9-10 minutes of ES time if necessary.  Still, spending a bunch of money on a 4th line is stupid.  If you can get CBGB back for $3M, it's probably worth it, but if they're getting $4M, that's a large mistake.

 

Re-signing Sislo is a good move for depth, he can definitely play a 4th line role.  I'm hoping they'll keep TImmins, he seems like he could play 4th line if need be.  People also forget that your top 12 forwards are not the only players who will play.

 

You are right about Salvador over Fayne being a false equivalency, but it be easier for Lou to try and work out an offer with Fayne's agent if he new that signing him means they'll have to move Salvador. Fayne should be a priority, but I don't get the feeling he is right now. Usually, we get some quotes from the player and agent that lets us know how interested Lou was.

 

Fayne should try and get to free agency though.


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#514 Daniel

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 10:38 AM

Salvador over Fayne is a false equivalency - Fayne is a UFA.  He can go wherever he likes.

 

 

 

It isn't really.  Fayne is not Zach Parise with at least five teams willing to throw no less than $60 million at him.  If Lou offered Fayne $9 million over three years right now (i.e. less than what he gave Salvador two years ago), there's a good chance he takes it.  No I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, but all indications are that Lou is not even talking to Fayne.

 

By the same token, Lou could get rid of Salvador fairly easily, one way or another.  He doesn't have an NTC, and he could probably be a sixth defenseman on a handful of teams, especially if the Devils retain 1/3 of his salary.

 

In a way, not making an effort to keep Fayne would be ironic.  He's a defenseman that has proven to be a guy who could be a second pairing defenseman on roughly half of the teams in the league that Lou basically got out of nowhere (the fifth round of the draft), who would probably be getting less than most second pairing defensemen.  You would think that he's a prototypical Devils player, and a boost to Lou's ego. 


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#515 Triumph

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 10:51 AM

It isn't really.  Fayne is not Zach Parise with at least five teams willing to throw no less than $60 million at him.  If Lou offered Fayne $9 million over three years right now (i.e. less than what he gave Salvador two years ago), there's a good chance he takes it.  No I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, but all indications are that Lou is not even talking to Fayne.

 

By the same token, Lou could get rid of Salvador fairly easily, one way or another.  He doesn't have an NTC, and he could probably be a sixth defenseman on a handful of teams, especially if the Devils retain 1/3 of his salary.

 

In a way, not making an effort to keep Fayne would be ironic.  He's a defenseman that has proven to be a guy who could be a second pairing defenseman on roughly half of the teams in the league that Lou basically got out of nowhere (the fifth round of the draft), who would probably be getting less than most second pairing defensemen.  You would think that he's a prototypical Devils player, and a boost to Lou's ego. 

 

You've got 8 guys signed for next year already.  Then you've got Severson in the minors.  I like Fayne a lot, but unless they move one of the young D, I'm not sure he should be retained except at a very fair price point (I'm already assuming one of Salvador or Volchenkov will be the compliance buyout).  And so NJ shouldn't really be talking to Fayne's agent until this sort of deal happens, and I imagine it would happen around the draft.


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#516 NJDevils1214

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 11:07 AM

I really hope the staff don't  plan on trying to keep the 4th line intact. It's time to let that go.


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#517 Daniel

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 11:12 AM

You've got 8 guys signed for next year already.  Then you've got Severson in the minors.  I like Fayne a lot, but unless they move one of the young D, I'm not sure he should be retained except at a very fair price point (I'm already assuming one of Salvador or Volchenkov will be the compliance buyout).  And so NJ shouldn't really be talking to Fayne's agent until this sort of deal happens, and I imagine it would happen around the draft.

 

If the plan were to get rid of Volchenkov and Salvador, and keep Fayne, in 2013-14 the defense is: Zidlicky, Greene, Fayne, Merrill, Larsson, Gelinas, Harrold.  You also have Severson, Helegson and Scarlett who all seem like plausible call ups in the event of injuries, or you can make a Skoula/Havelid trade as a last resort.

 

The following year, when you would hope that Severson is ready to be a full-time NHLer, Greene, Zidlicky and Harrold are not under contract, albeit I assume and hope that Lou keeps Greene around.  If it looks like Gelinas is nothing more than a MAB clone, or Severson is Matt Corrente, you can re-up Zidlicky who seems like he'll keep signing one year deals as long as Lou wants to keep him around.

 

In two years, Santini might plausibly be ready to play the NHL (and that's doubtful), at which time we have no idea what the defense corps will look like.

 

EDIT:  And even if you kept one of Volechenkov/Salvador, you can always put Harrold on waivers.  There's a 50/50 chance that he makes it through.  That's a small price to pay to ensure that you keep a valuable player like Fayne.


Edited by Daniel, 18 June 2014 - 11:22 AM.

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#518 CarpathianForest

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 11:28 AM

Kinda sucks that we have a solid D that is kind of cockblocking our ability to bring in a couple 1st or 2nd liners


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#519 Triumph

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 11:30 AM

If the plan were to get rid of Volchenkov and Salvador, and keep Fayne, in 2013-14 the defense is: Zidlicky, Greene, Fayne, Merrill, Larsson, Gelinas, Harrold.  You also have Severson, Helegson and Scarlett who all seem like plausible call ups in the event of injuries, or you can make a Skoula/Havelid trade as a last resort.

 

The following year, when you would hope that Severson is ready to be a full-time NHLer, Greene, Zidlicky and Harrold are not under contract, albeit I assume and hope that Lou keeps Greene around.  If it looks like Gelinas is nothing more than a MAB clone, or Severson is Matt Corrente, you can re-up Zidlicky who seems like he'll keep signing one year deals as long as Lou wants to keep him around.

 

In two years, Santini might plausibly be ready to play the NHL (and that's doubtful), at which time we have no idea what the defense corps will look like.

 

EDIT:  And even if you kept one of Volechenkov/Salvador, you can always put Harrold on waivers.  There's a 50/50 chance that he makes it through.  That's a small price to pay to ensure that you keep a valuable player like Fayne.

 

I don't really think this is plausible.  I don't see them getting rid of both Volchenkov and Salvador - these players were on their top PK unit.  They're going to throw that over in one season?  I don't see it.  And that's the real point - Mark Fayne doesn't play a whole lot.  18 minutes a game for each of the last two seasons.  That's 3rd pairing minutes on a team with flat ice time distribution.  Now we know he played against better competition, but they don't play him a ton, and I don't see the sense in paying a lot for that.  Play goes forward when Fayne is on the ice, but I don't think his play-driving is worth that much - he doesn't have no offense, but he doesn't have a ton either.  


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#520 Daniel

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 11:42 AM

I don't really think this is plausible.  I don't see them getting rid of both Volchenkov and Salvador - these players were on their top PK unit.  They're going to throw that over in one season?  I don't see it.  And that's the real point - Mark Fayne doesn't play a whole lot.  18 minutes a game for each of the last two seasons.  That's 3rd pairing minutes on a team with flat ice time distribution.  Now we know he played against better competition, but they don't play him a ton, and I don't see the sense in paying a lot for that.  Play goes forward when Fayne is on the ice, but I don't think his play-driving is worth that much - he doesn't have no offense, but he doesn't have a ton either.  

 

The question is how much more Fayne adds than Volchenkov and Salvador, both of whom you'd be paying more, and if you'd be comfortable giving Fayne more minutes than he's gotten, especially when you take into account that he would presumably make that up by getting PK time.  (It's also possible that Fayne's average icetime looks low because he was in DeBoer's doghouse for the first month or two of the season). 

 

I don't know the nuts and bolts, but it really seems like the Devils PK is close to being a set of interchangeable parts.  I mean, I guess Volchenkov adds a shot blocking element, but I don't see what Salvador brings that can't be taught to a more skilled player.   


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