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The 2014 NJ Devils Offseason Thread


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#921 Triumph

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 11:36 AM

I just hate a situation where an offensive player or two gets hurt and instead of sliding a Ryder or a Brunner in there you now move up Bernier or Zubrus.

 

I also really hate the idea of CBGB reuniting and then having Zubrus playing 3rd line or better minutes all season.

 

I think it's nuts to assume that the opening day lineup, barring injuries, would have a guy like Brunner or Ryder (or Havlat) scratched.  But that's what it would have - they're not going to play one of those guys on the 4th line.  Even now assuming everyone makes it through camp healthy and with one guy dealt, NJ still has these forwards:  Cammalleri, Zajac, Jagr, Ruutu, Elias, Havlat, Clowe, Henrique, Ryder/Brunner, Zubrus, Carter, Gionta, Bernier, Josefson - that's still one too many.  It might mean Bernier as a healthy scratch.


Edited by Triumph, 10 July 2014 - 11:40 AM.

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#922 RizzMB30

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 12:10 PM

I think it's nuts to assume that the opening day lineup, barring injuries, would have a guy like Brunner or Ryder (or Havlat) scratched.  But that's what it would have - they're not going to play one of those guys on the 4th line.  Even now assuming everyone makes it through camp healthy and with one guy dealt, NJ still has these forwards:  Cammalleri, Zajac, Jagr, Ruutu, Elias, Havlat, Clowe, Henrique, Ryder/Brunner, Zubrus, Carter, Gionta, Bernier, Josefson - that's still one too many.  It might mean Bernier as a healthy scratch.

So assuming one of Ryder or Brunner is gone, you think Josefson will actually see some ice time this year?  I really really want it and think he's ready, but I didn't think you were very high on Jajo


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#923 RizzMB30

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 12:18 PM

The one deal that was rumored by someone half-way credible was Marchand for Kane.  The package you suggest would be absolute lunacy.  We'd be giving up a lot more than Dallas gave up for a much better player in Seguin.  And Boston has basically got lucky in that deal as Reilly Smith was something of a throw-in at the time. 

It's not about Seguins value is in comparison, it's about what Winnipeg would accept. For a key part of their franchise.  Winnipeg doesn't have players like Beregeron and Krejci, Lucic to fall back on.  


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#924 dmann422

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 12:33 PM

The one deal that was rumored by someone half-way credible was Marchand for Kane. The package you suggest would be absolute lunacy. We'd be giving up a lot more than Dallas gave up for a much better player in Seguin. And Boston has basically got lucky in that deal as Reilly Smith was something of a throw-in at the time.

IMO the bobby Ryan deal is a good comparable. Two good (although not top-flight) prospects and a first.

If henrique is even mentioned as a starting point in a potential trade for Kane I hangup. Honestly I probably wouldn't make that trade straight up.

Edited by dmann422, 10 July 2014 - 12:45 PM.

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#925 Daniel

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 12:34 PM

It's not about Seguins value is in comparison, it's about what Winnipeg would accept. For a key part of their franchise.  Winnipeg doesn't have players like Beregeron and Krejci, Lucic to fall back on.  

 

If Winnipeg wants more of a return for Kane, then they're not going to find a trade partner.  The only thing that changes that is if Kane has a monster year, but at that point, Winnipeg probably won't trade him anyway.


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#926 ATLL765

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 02:57 PM

I'd do Gelinas+2015 1st+Ryder for Kane. No way I'm trading Henrique when we're so lacking in the young forward dept. If Gelinas plays well again this season I think this becomes pretty realistic.


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#927 CarpathianForest

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 03:39 PM

No way I part with Gelinas. Zids is probably gone after this coming season and we need a good power play QB. Plus his shot is a real bonus.


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#928 Jerzey Devil

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 04:11 PM

No way I part with Gelinas. Zids is probably gone after this coming season and we need a good power play QB. Plus his shot is a real bonus.


Agree. We should wait and see how good Severson is gonna be in the nhl before we get rid of any offense from the back. Even if he turns out to be good we can still have two offensively gifted d men like when we had Nieds and Ralfi.

Edited by Jerzey Devil, 10 July 2014 - 04:12 PM.

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#929 ATLL765

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 05:02 PM

No way I part with Gelinas. Zids is probably gone after this coming season and we need a good power play QB. Plus his shot is a real bonus.

Gelinas is no PP QB. His shot is a rocket for sure, but he isn't the kind of player who is going to run the PP from the point, imo. You'll need an Elias type to distribute from the half boards and feed Gelinas the puck at the point. I'd send him in a trade only because he probably has the most value around the league due to his point total from last year. I think between Larsson and Merrill, they'll provide decent offense from the back end and I think they're more likely to be solid NHLers than Gelinas is. Gelinas to me could either be a top end PMD or could be nothing more than a hard shot that gets limited time 5v5 and is used mostly on the PP.


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#930 CarpathianForest

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 05:05 PM

Gelinas is no PP QB. His shot is a rocket for sure, but he isn't the kind of player who is going to run the PP from the point, imo. You'll need an Elias type to distribute from the half boards and feed Gelinas the puck at the point. I'd send him in a trade only because he probably has the most value around the league due to his point total from last year. I think between Larsson and Merrill, they'll provide decent offense from the back end and I think they're more likely to be solid NHLers than Gelinas is. Gelinas to me could either be a top end PMD or could be nothing more than a hard shot that gets limited time 5v5 and is used mostly on the PP.

 

Except you don't mention that he still has plenty of time to develop and probably has the best offensive upside of any defenseman on the team. I'm not giving up Gelinas for someone who has potential to be a top guy on a better team. Sorry, Kane's numbers and play isn't worth what you're offering.


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#931 RizzMB30

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 06:00 PM

Gelinas is no PP QB. His shot is a rocket for sure, but he isn't the kind of player who is going to run the PP from the point, imo. You'll need an Elias type to distribute from the half boards and feed Gelinas the puck at the point. I'd send him in a trade only because he probably has the most value around the league due to his point total from last year. I think between Larsson and Merrill, they'll provide decent offense from the back end and I think they're more likely to be solid NHLers than Gelinas is. Gelinas to me could either be a top end PMD or could be nothing more than a hard shot that gets limited time 5v5 and is used mostly on the PP.

I disagree.  He may not have the passing ability of a PP QB, but you can't say he's no PP QB and then say he could be a PMD.  The PP QB has to have the skating ability to get the puck up ice quickly.  He has the skating ability to be that guy and the shot.  Gelinas will be an NHLer as long as he figures out the defensive side of the game.  He's a big body, will play physical, he's everything you want from a defenseman, but you know, without the solid, reliable defense.  Even if he can get to Zidlicky's level of awareness, he'll be fine.  Zidlicky has had a pretty long and pretty successful career.  


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#932 bekim

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 07:49 PM

IMO the bobby Ryan deal is a good comparable. Two good (although not top-flight) prospects and a first.

If henrique is even mentioned as a starting point in a potential trade for Kane I hangup. Honestly I probably wouldn't make that trade straight up.

You wouldn't trade Henrique for EKane straight up??  That's surprising.  EKane is a pure talent who has the near term potential of being a superstar.  He hits a lot.  Shoots a lot.  Is a fun player to watch.  Henrique is a potential 30 goal scorer, but he's nowhere near as dynamic or talented a player as EKane.  I think any discussion would indeed involve a player like Henrique.  I disagree that it would take Henrique + Ryder + Young D + 1st.  That's not realistic based on the fact Kane seems to want out and Jets need to do something.  I think Henrique + Ryder + 1st gets it done without a D for sure, and I think it's also possible Henrique + Ryder + high 2nd gets it done.  Granted, all with the caveat that it's highly unlikely NJ is even looking at him.


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#933 CarpathianForest

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 09:24 PM

I'm not even looking at Kane. He has "potential" to be a solid player, but he doesn't stack up with Henrique's experience.  I just don't think Kane is as good as everyone thinks he is.


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#934 HellOnICE

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 09:30 PM

At first I was offering up Henrique to get Kane, but now not so much. Today, I'd only do a package involving Larsson and a pick a veteran roster player.

 

I think the Devils would wait too until they can get a look at Severson next week as well.


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#935 devilsrule33

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 09:34 PM

I'm trading Henrique any day as a center piece for Henrique. Just move past "character", and its a no-brainer. And while I absolutely loved Henrique's OT series winners, these are things that stay with GMs and fans for a little too long. Henrique had some huge goals, but I'm not thinking about those goals in the future and labeling him a big-time player.

 

Since Lou is obsessed with "character", I am not expecting any deal with these two players to ever happen.


Edited by devilsrule33, 10 July 2014 - 10:01 PM.

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#936 CarpathianForest

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 09:54 PM

I'm trading Henrique any day as a center piece for Henrique. Just move pass character, and its a no-brainer. And while I absolutely loved Henrique's OT series winners, these are things that stay with GMs and fans for a little too long. Henrique had some huge goals, but I'm not thinking about those goals in the future and labeling him a big-time player.

 

Since Lou is obsessed with "character", I am not expecting any deal with these two players to ever happen.

 

You lose a very valuable two-way center if you lose Henrique. Besides that Kane has already suffered at least one concussion in his career.


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#937 2ELIAS6

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 10:04 PM

im not even sure why its being discussed its not going to happen.. henrique is not going to be traded.
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#938 Devilsfan118

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 10:12 PM

im not even sure why its being discussed its not going to happen.. henrique is not going to be traded.

It's the offseason - have something better we should be taking about?

And never say never. Hockey is a crazy sport.

And for the record, I'd definitely okay with trading Gelinas. I don't know if people here remember just how bad he was defensively.. That shot is sexy, sure. But he could definitely become a MAB which would be unfortunate.

Edited by Devilsfan118, 10 July 2014 - 10:14 PM.

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#939 Triumph

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 10:17 PM

People saying 'he could become an MAB' have never seen Bergeron play defense, I think.  Gelinas is horrible but is light years ahead of where that guy was.  I would only deal Gelinas in the right package, and Winnipeg does not want Larsson, they need centers, which we also do not have.


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#940 2ELIAS6

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 10:23 PM

It's the offseason - have something better we should be taking about?
And never say never. Hockey is a crazy sport.
And for the record, I'd definitely okay with trading Gelinas. I don't know if people here remember just how bad he was defensively.. That shot is sexy, sure. But he could definitely become a MAB which would be unfortunate.

its just not realistic and its not going to happen..it would be extremely stupid to trade away young top 6 talent just to replace it with something else.. this team needs young top 6 talent youre not going to trade away what you need to get back a slightly better player.. one that doesnt even have that much proven time under his belt at that. but anyways i would be for trading gelinas in a package if it returned something of real use up front.. he has a sick shot but he is not that strong in his own end..who knows what will end up happening but i doubt he gets traded as well.
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