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Do you think we could get Joe Thorton?


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#41 njdevsftw

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 11:20 AM

There's no way Joe Thornton is good enough for our awesome team! He only has a slightly better playoff PPG average then people like Pavel Datsyuk, both the Sedins, Zach Parise, Mike Richards, Brendan Shanahan, Patrice Bergeron, Mogily, Selänne, Marleau, Havlat, Pavelski, Claude Lemieux, Sharp etc etc etc. And clearly, every player who hasn't won the cup has proven that he, as an individual, is a crappy no-clutch player. I mean, it's not as if this is a team sport. If the Pens don't win this year, it is because Crasby isn't sufficiently clutch.

 

Here's a list over sh!tty no-clutch players who also wouldn't have been good enough for the Devils: Sundin, Linden, Ryan Smith, Hawerchuk, Lindros, Alfredsson, Iginla, Bure, Neely,  Peter Statsny, Marcel Dionne, Gilbert Perreault, Adam Oates, Salming, LaFontaine..

 

Ray Borque managed to squeeze in a cup in the last game of his career, so I guess he's pretty clutch.


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#42 grcenter47

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 01:14 PM

I would love to see Joe Thornton get 5 goals and 80 assists with us haha
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#43 SterioDesign

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 01:58 PM

There's no way Joe Thornton is good enough for our awesome team! He only has a slightly better playoff PPG average then people like Pavel Datsyuk, both the Sedins, Zach Parise, Mike Richards, Brendan Shanahan, Patrice Bergeron, Mogily, Selänne, Marleau, Havlat, Pavelski, Claude Lemieux, Sharp etc etc etc. And clearly, every player who hasn't won the cup has proven that he, as an individual, is a crappy no-clutch player. I mean, it's not as if this is a team sport. If the Pens don't win this year, it is because Crasby isn't sufficiently clutch.

 

Here's a list over sh!tty no-clutch players who also wouldn't have been good enough for the Devils: Sundin, Linden, Ryan Smith, Hawerchuk, Lindros, Alfredsson, Iginla, Bure, Neely,  Peter Statsny, Marcel Dionne, Gilbert Perreault, Adam Oates, Salming, LaFontaine..

 

Ray Borque managed to squeeze in a cup in the last game of his career, so I guess he's pretty clutch.

 

yeah but would you trade assets that youre already lacking to get a 35 years old Lindros? lol I dont think anyone here would mind having him here but its a bit too risky depending on what we'd have to send their way


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#44 njdevsftw

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 06:36 PM

Everything depends on what we'd have to give up of course, but Thornton is an absolute beast of a player. I would love to see him in Jersey.


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#45 CarpathianForest

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 07:06 PM

Big Joe isn't a big scorer. You'd have to put him on a lone with some scoring talent that can take advantage of his play. Henrique maybe? Elias? Ryder? Clowe? There's a few, but no one as talented as Thornton's linemates in SJ.


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#46 devlman

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:17 PM

yeah but would you trade assets that youre already lacking to get a 35 years old Lindros? lol I dont think anyone here would mind having him here but its a bit too risky depending on what we'd have to send their way


Have you not learned from the great Jagr? 35 isn't old for a guy showing no signs of slowing down.
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#47 2ELIAS6

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 08:27 PM

Have you not learned from the great Jagr? 35 isn't old for a guy showing no signs of slowing down.

yea but i think the thing to worry about is when the decline starts to happen how quickly the wheels can fall off all at once.
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#48 Lateralous

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:06 PM

I would love to see Joe Thornton get 5 goals and 80 assists with us haha


So would I because that would mean we actually have guys capable of finishing 80 of his passes. Unfortunately the same issue still remains.
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#49 Lateralous

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:08 PM

yeah but would you trade assets that youre already lacking to get a 35 years old Lindros? lol I dont think anyone here would mind having him here but its a bit too risky depending on what we'd have to send their way


Thank you. No one is saying Thornton isn't a great player but given the Devils needs, his particular skill set, his age and what it would take to get him it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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#50 devlman

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:29 PM

Thank you. No one is saying Thornton isn't a great player but given the Devils needs, his particular skill set, his age and what it would take to get him it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


His particular skill set? You mean his terrific skills at almost everything? His age? 35 isn't that old when you see he hasn't slowed down. I'll kinda give you the last one of the price it would take to get him. However, if SJ wants to blow up their team and deal him east, he may not be that expensive.
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#51 CarpathianForest

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:35 PM

His particular skill set? You mean his terrific skills at almost everything? His age? 35 isn't that old when you see he hasn't slowed down. I'll kinda give you the last one of the price it would take to get him. However, if SJ wants to blow up their team and deal him east, he may not be that expensive.

 

What Laterelous is saying is that Thornton gets a butt ton of assists because he plays with high level talent. We don't have that level.


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#52 devilsrule33

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:36 PM

His particular skill set? You mean his terrific skills at almost everything? His age? 35 isn't that old when you see he hasn't slowed down. I'll kinda give you the last one of the price it would take to get him. However, if SJ wants to blow up their team and deal him east, he may not be that expensive.

 

He's played an amount of games where I'd be weary of his output moving forward. He's a HOF talent, but he has been in a great spot the last few years. He might still have a few 70 point seasons left, but he could just as easily burn you. If Thornton gets moved, and hey it is possible, I imagine it'll be to a team that is ready to contend.

 

As for your comment about Jagr, I think he a very rare case in sports. Lou always says age is just a number. That's true. But I remember when he signed Rolston, and he was so sure that Brian was one player you didn't have to worry about. It seemed from day 1 you had to worry about him. It really is a hard thing to gauge.


Edited by devilsrule33, 04 May 2014 - 09:41 PM.

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#53 CarpathianForest

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:39 PM

Rolston wasn't terrible.  It was his contract that was.


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#54 Martyisth3b3st

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:23 PM

Rolston wasn't terrible. It was his contract that was.

Compared to what we expected, even at a bare minimum, Rolston was terrible.
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#55 Triumph

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:42 PM

He's played an amount of games where I'd be weary of his output moving forward. He's a HOF talent, but he has been in a great spot the last few years. He might still have a few 70 point seasons left, but he could just as easily burn you. If Thornton gets moved, and hey it is possible, I imagine it'll be to a team that is ready to contend.

 

As for your comment about Jagr, I think he a very rare case in sports. Lou always says age is just a number. That's true. But I remember when he signed Rolston, and he was so sure that Brian was one player you didn't have to worry about. It seemed from day 1 you had to worry about him. It really is a hard thing to gauge.

 

Rolston was a much worse player than Joe Thornton.  When you are looking at rates of decline, a good place to start is how good was the player initially?  Well, Thornton was amazing, and while his goal scoring has dried up, he's still a phenomenal passer.  Then I'd look at injuries - Thornton has basically suffered no serious injuries in his career, or at least not for the last 10 years.

 

The end can come fast.  Sakic scored 100 points at age 37 and only played 60 more games.  Injuries can always strike.  But I'd certainly bet on Joe Thornton - he is one of the smartest players in the league.  If he can stay healthy I don't doubt he could play 5 or 6 more years, most of those at a high level.


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#56 devilsrule33

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Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:54 PM

Rolston was a much worse player than Joe Thornton.  When you are looking at rates of decline, a good place to start is how good was the player initially?  Well, Thornton was amazing, and while his goal scoring has dried up, he's still a phenomenal passer.  Then I'd look at injuries - Thornton has basically suffered no serious injuries in his career, or at least not for the last 10 years.

 

The end can come fast.  Sakic scored 100 points at age 37 and only played 60 more games.  Injuries can always strike.  But I'd certainly bet on Joe Thornton - he is one of the smartest players in the league.  If he can stay healthy I don't doubt he could play 5 or 6 more years, most of those at a high level.

 

When I wrote that, I thought maybe I should edit to explain there is no way I'm comparing Rolston and Thornton because Tri is going to respond on that. And here we are haha...

 

Rolston was the same age as Thornton is right now, but had played a few hundred less games too.

 

Anyway, I agree with everything you are saying. There are a lot of reasons to take Thornton. I also think it be wise for San Jose to sell high on either Marleau or Thornton (some would say you would be selling low after this playoff run). Both have played over 1200 games at the age of 34. Sharks may not need to do anything, but trading 1 for a few different roster players could be beneficial for them.

 

I think they both have NTC and probably don't want to be traded, but it's a thought.


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#57 njdevsftw

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 07:28 PM

What Laterelous is saying is that Thornton gets a butt ton of assists because he plays with high level talent. We don't have that level.

 

You must be joking? Thornton has an undeniable history of making even mediocre linemates into pure gold. Cheechoo?


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#58 CarpathianForest

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 07:44 PM

You must be joking? Thornton has an undeniable history of making even mediocre linemates into pure gold. Cheechoo?

 

While Big Joe did help increase Cheech's output in 05-06, Cheech was still a talented goal scorer. He potted 28 in 03-04. He'd be good to center Ryder but it's not automatic. There has to be chemistry.


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#59 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 08:59 PM

Throw out the '05-'06 numbers...a lot of anomalies that season (Brian Gionta's 48 goals, for one).  Legal body checks were being called penalties.


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#60 Lateralous

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 11:13 PM

His particular skill set? You mean his terrific skills at almost everything? His age? 35 isn't that old when you see he hasn't slowed down. I'll kinda give you the last one of the price it would take to get him. However, if SJ wants to blow up their team and deal him east, he may not be that expensive.


Thornton is a fantastic player, please don't think I am saying otherwise. I'm just saying that I don't think he's a great fit given what it would cost to get him and what he would provide given the current roster and the lack of assets we have to get him. Even if we got Thornton I think there several more moves that have to be made before we can dream of going anywhere in the postseason.

I actually thought Ryder was going to be the perfect signing last summer because I thought he would easily bury 35 getting set up by Elias. That clearly didn't work out so take anything I say with a grain of salt but I do think we are at a point where we just need to keep our picks and let them grow without constantly being in a win now mode with a team that's no where close to winning anything.
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