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#41 RizzMB30

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 06:01 AM

There's nothing wrong with Brodeur coming back here as a backup, and that's his only choice if he wants to play in the NHL.  No other NHL team is going to want him.  For example, last offseason Jagr would have likely not found a job in the NHL if not coming to NJ.  There's a continuing trend of teams not being interested in players who don't perform.  Jagr was coming off of what most Bruins fans would call a disappointing playoff run with BOS.  Marty is now coming off of a season where he averaged a .900 or less sv.%.  He'd be lucky to even find a backup job somewhere not named New Jersey.  I'm expecting him to re-sign here in a backup role and I'm sure his salary will reflect that.


Edited by RizzMB30, 08 May 2014 - 06:51 AM.

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#42 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 06:23 AM

There's nothing wrong with Brodeur coming back here as a backup, and that's his only choice if he wants to play in the NHL.  No other NHL team is going to want him. 

 

Seriously, the bolded almost sounds like something MB would say.  There's plenty of reasons to be concerned with Marty coming back here, and they've all been discussed in detail. 

 

1) He's now a near bottom-of-the-league puckstopper, and has been for two seasons.  I won't do it again in detail, but 2010-11 and 2011-12 at least saw extended stretches of very good play.  2013 and last season really didn't, and one 10-game stretch really puffed Marty's not-so-good overall numbers up this past season.  For the most part last year, he was an .880ish guy, and the Devils can't afford that kind of play from their goalies, even if it's for 15-20 games.   

 

2) There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that he can be a decent backup, and considering how much he complained about lack of playing time affecting his game, I don't see him suddenly warming up to the idea (even if he says all of the right things).  I don't want to see quotes from Marty, when he's 1-4-2 with a GAA over 3.00 and a save% in the .880s, that basically state "Well, it's a difficult adjustment, I'm used to playing in a lot of games..."

 

3) Cory needs to be allowed to have a bad game or two without PDB giving Marty the white knight treatment.  Like I and others have said, we don't need to read PDB quotes about how lucky he is to have two such great, #1-type goalies.

 

Lou can find a backup who actually has backup experience and will be thought of as strictly a backup-type, who won't be 42 and won't have to learn a new role.  A guy like Hedberg would be perfect (the non-2013 version). 


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#43 '7'

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:30 AM

There's nothing wrong with Brodeur coming back here as a backup, and that's his only choice if he wants to play in the NHL. No other NHL team is going to want him. For example, last offseason Jagr would have likely not found a job in the NHL if not coming to NJ. There's a continuing trend of teams not being interested in players who don't perform. Jagr was coming off of what most Bruins fans would call a disappointing playoff run with BOS. Marty is now coming off of a season where he averaged a .900 or less sv.%. He'd be lucky to even find a backup job somewhere not named New Jersey. I'm expecting him to re-sign here in a backup role and I'm sure his salary will reflect that.


Jagr would've very easily found another NHL job last year if not for the Devils.

If Brodeur can't find a landing spot and crawls back here and accepts a 15-17 start pure backup role with np bitching and whining to the media...I'd be fine with that. But Brodeur isnt humble, so this wont happen
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#44 Devilsfan118

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 09:56 AM

If Brodeur can't find a landing spot and crawls back here and accepts a 15-17 start pure backup role with np bitching and whining to the media...I'd be fine with that. But Brodeur isnt humble, so this wont happen


Yeah, no way this happens. Personal jab at Marty aside, he's proven the ego won't let him step back into a backup roll. Which is fine - if you don't want to ride the bench, retire.

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#45 EdgeControl

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:12 AM

with all our back to back games, NJ offers the most potential back up starts for Marty.  his agent came up empty at the deadline, and I don't see things changing much.  he'll have to agree to 15-20 games or retire. not concerned about Cory, the money will speak load and clear


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#46 Triumph

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:50 AM

with all our back to back games, NJ offers the most potential back up starts for Marty.  his agent came up empty at the deadline, and I don't see things changing much.  he'll have to agree to 15-20 games or retire. not concerned about Cory, the money will speak load and clear

 

Schedule for next year isn't out yet, AFAIK.  The post from a few weeks ago regarding back to backs was about last season.


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#47 devilsrule33

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:58 AM

I think we all know Brodeur doesn't want to be a backup. He's not wired for it, and frankly someone with that good a career shouldn't have to be 42 and a back up in the league. I find it almost impossible that he could come back to 15-20 games with it clearly defined that he will not be the starter at all.

 

Brodeur is hoping for a 2008 Red Wings Hasek situation. where you have a very solid team that doesn't have a clear answer in nets. Hasek was 43 and he was pretty much done, but there was always hope for him and concern with Wings management with Osgood in nets. Basically, he's hoping to be given a shot to win the net.

 

That simply can not happen in New Jersey. Marty knows it too. He said as much in a bunch of quotes. Ego and competition and wanting to play took over (pretty much why he wanted to be traded), but since he cares so much about this franchise, he knows that what he wants and what the franchise needs don't align at all. They didn't align last year, and it will be catastrophic this year.

 

For Brodeur, it has to be an opportunity with another team, or his career is over. 


Edited by devilsrule33, 08 May 2014 - 11:15 AM.

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#48 point

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 11:20 AM

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#49 Triumph

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 11:42 AM

I think we all know Brodeur doesn't want to be a backup. He's not wired for it, and frankly someone with that good a career shouldn't have to be 42 and a back up in the league. I find it almost impossible that he could come back to 15-20 games with it clearly defined that he will not be the starter at all.

 

Brodeur is hoping for a 2008 Red Wings Hasek situation. where you have a very solid team that doesn't have a clear answer in nets. Hasek was 43 and he was pretty much done, but there was always hope for him and concern with Wings management with Osgood in nets. Basically, he's hoping to be given a shot to win the net.

 

That simply can not happen in New Jersey. Marty knows it too. He said as much in a bunch of quotes. Ego and competition and wanting to play took over (pretty much why he wanted to be traded), but since he cares so much about this franchise, he knows that what he wants and what the franchise needs don't align at all. They didn't align last year, and it will be catastrophic this year.

 

For Brodeur, it has to be an opportunity with another team, or his career is over. 

 

I just don't see where that will be.

 

Teams with DEFINITE starting goalies right now:  NYR (Lundqvist), NJ (Schneider), Pittsburgh (Fleury), Columbus (Bobrovsky), Boston (Rask), Montreal (Price), Tampa (Bishop), Detroit (Howard), Florida (Luongo), Toronto (Bernier), Chicago (Crawford), Nashville (Rinne), Dallas (Lethonen), Colorado (Varlamov), Phoenix (Smith), San Jose (Niemi), LA (Quick)

 

So now we've winnowed things down considerably already - that's 17 teams off the list of teams that have a definite #1 guy right now.

 

Teams that think they have a starter:  Winnipeg (Pavelec), Philadelphia (Mason), Calgary, maybe? (Rammo)

 

Cross 3 more off, probably - I would include Philadelphia as a place Brodeur might go, but I don't think he'll want to play there.  Now we're at 9 teams left.

 

Teams with two guys:  Ottawa (Anderson, Lehner), Edmonton (Scrivens, Fasth), Minnesota (Kuemper, Harding, Backstrom), Carolina (Ward, Khudobin), Anaheim (Andersen, Gibson)

 

Now we're at 5 teams:  Buffalo, the Islanders, Washington, St. Louis, Vancouver.  Buffalo has Neuvirth and Enroth, two young goalies, the Islanders already indicated their interest in Jaro Halak, the Blues have a UFA goalie they paid a lot for, and Vancouver has a young guy they like.

 

UFA Starting goalies (current team):  Hiller (Anaheim), Halak (NYI), Miller (St. Louis), Nabokov (NYI)

 

I don't think Nabokov is a starter in the NHL anymore, so throw him off the list.  Still, these 3 guys are going to end up somewhere, so that's 3 more teams off the list.  That leaves 2 teams left for Brodeur to be an ostensible starter on, and that's if he can usurp a guy that's already there (exception to this:  The Islanders).  And he said he wanted to go somewhere he can win and somewhere that's warm.  I could maybe see Anaheim signing him as a veteran guy if they've gone insane, but I think someone like Nabokov or Bryzgalov would be a better fit there - they could have one of the young guys in the NHL playing while the other young guy plays in the AHL, and if one is doing considerably better than the other, they could switch.  I could see Phoenix maybe using him as a backup because why not, but again he'd be a backup.  Unless the goalie UFA market shakes out real weird, like someone ends up going to the KHL or someone ends up hurt for the year in the off-season, I just don't see him landing anywhere where he even has a chance to be a 1A.  


Edited by Triumph, 08 May 2014 - 11:47 AM.

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#50 Daniel

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 12:02 PM

I just don't see where that will be.

 

Teams with DEFINITE starting goalies right now:  NYR (Lundqvist), NJ (Schneider), Pittsburgh (Fleury), Columbus (Bobrovsky), Boston (Rask), Montreal (Price), Tampa (Bishop), Detroit (Howard), Florida (Luongo), Toronto (Bernier), Chicago (Crawford), Nashville (Rinne), Dallas (Lethonen), Colorado (Varlamov), Phoenix (Smith), San Jose (Niemi), LA (Quick)

 

So now we've winnowed things down considerably already - that's 17 teams off the list of teams that have a definite #1 guy right now.

 

Teams that think they have a starter:  Winnipeg (Pavelec), Philadelphia (Mason), Calgary, maybe? (Rammo)

 

Cross 3 more off, probably - I would include Philadelphia as a place Brodeur might go, but I don't think he'll want to play there.  Now we're at 9 teams left.

 

Teams with two guys:  Ottawa (Anderson, Lehner), Edmonton (Scrivens, Fasth), Minnesota (Kuemper, Harding, Backstrom), Carolina (Ward, Khudobin), Anaheim (Andersen, Gibson)

 

Now we're at 5 teams:  Buffalo, the Islanders, Washington, St. Louis, Vancouver.  Buffalo has Neuvirth and Enroth, two young goalies, the Islanders already indicated their interest in Jaro Halak, the Blues have a UFA goalie they paid a lot for, and Vancouver has a young guy they like.

 

UFA Starting goalies (current team):  Hiller (Anaheim), Halak (NYI), Miller (St. Louis), Nabokov (NYI)

 

I don't think Nabokov is a starter in the NHL anymore, so throw him off the list.  Still, these 3 guys are going to end up somewhere, so that's 3 more teams off the list.  That leaves 2 teams left for Brodeur to be an ostensible starter on, and that's if he can usurp a guy that's already there (exception to this:  The Islanders).  And he said he wanted to go somewhere he can win and somewhere that's warm.  I could maybe see Anaheim signing him as a veteran guy if they've gone insane, but I think someone like Nabokov or Bryzgalov would be a better fit there - they could have one of the young guys in the NHL playing while the other young guy plays in the AHL, and if one is doing considerably better than the other, they could switch.  I could see Phoenix maybe using him as a backup because why not, but again he'd be a backup.  Unless the goalie UFA market shakes out real weird, like someone ends up going to the KHL or someone ends up hurt for the year in the off-season, I just don't see him landing anywhere where he even has a chance to be a 1A.  

 

Perhaps a middle ground is a situation where he doesn't start off as a 1A, but would get a shot if the starter falters.  While there are fewer and fewer of them, there are still enough GMs that value clutchness and might want a guy like Marty who has had playoff success, as compared with goalies like Niemi who have a reputation of choking in the playoffs. 

 

Carolina might also fit the bill.  I could definitely see Ward being amnestied, and Khudobin is not firmly established enough to say he would otherwise be getting the starts no matter what. 


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#51 devilsrule33

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 12:15 PM

Perhaps a middle ground is a situation where he doesn't start off as a 1A, but would get a shot if the starter falters.  While there are fewer and fewer of them, there are still enough GMs that value clutchness and might want a guy like Marty who has had playoff success, as compared with goalies like Niemi who have a reputation of choking in the playoffs. 

 

Carolina might also fit the bill.  I could definitely see Ward being amnestied, and Khudobin is not firmly established enough to say he would otherwise be getting the starts no matter what. 

 

This where my Hasek comparison breaks down. Hasek went to Detroit after an excellent season with Ottawa (shortened by his injury at the Olympics that ended his season). He got a multi-year deal, and was good enough in the first season before having a poor 2nd year. He was brought in to start.

 

Brodeur is coming off multiple awful years. All GMs have to do is see past his GAA like actually watching game tape, and they'll know he shouldn't be the answer. If a team like San Jose thinks bringing in Brodeur as insurance for Niemi is a good option...well good luck. Even then, I don't think Brodeur wants to be an insurance policy. Niemi has played 75% of the Sharks regular season games over the last 4 years and has done well. Brodeur on the bench is not beneficial for either party.


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#52 Triumph

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 12:26 PM

Perhaps a middle ground is a situation where he doesn't start off as a 1A, but would get a shot if the starter falters.  While there are fewer and fewer of them, there are still enough GMs that value clutchness and might want a guy like Marty who has had playoff success, as compared with goalies like Niemi who have a reputation of choking in the playoffs. 

 

Carolina might also fit the bill.  I could definitely see Ward being amnestied, and Khudobin is not firmly established enough to say he would otherwise be getting the starts no matter what. 

 

You seem to completely disregard the dollar factor in a compliance buyout.  A compliance buyout for Cam Ward will cost the Hurricanes $9 million over the next 4 years.  I don't think they are going to do that - there's talk they will try to move him, and I imagine picking up his salary, even if it's half, is a much better option for them than a compliance buyout. 


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#53 Daniel

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 12:47 PM

You seem to completely disregard the dollar factor in a compliance buyout.  A compliance buyout for Cam Ward will cost the Hurricanes $9 million over the next 4 years.  I don't think they are going to do that - there's talk they will try to move him, and I imagine picking up his salary, even if it's half, is a much better option for them than a compliance buyout. 

 

Better than paying him $12.6 million over the next two years to be your backup when you can have someone that makes a lot less to make it still a net win overall.  I also don't know if Carolina has rich owners that are willing to eat the real dollars.  Obviously, some teams have shown a willingness to do that.

 

I also can't see anyone trading for Ward unless Garth Snow by some miracle still has a job when the Wang sells the team, and even if Carolina retains half of it.  No one wanted to kick in a few bucks of cap space for Marty for a few months and basically for a fourth round draft pick.  Ward might have actually been worse than Marty over the past two years, so I can't see anyone taking him for a $3.15 cap hit for the next two years. 


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#54 Daniel

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 12:53 PM

This where my Hasek comparison breaks down. Hasek went to Detroit after an excellent season with Ottawa (shortened by his injury at the Olympics that ended his season). He got a multi-year deal, and was good enough in the first season before having a poor 2nd year. He was brought in to start.

 

Brodeur is coming off multiple awful years. All GMs have to do is see past his GAA like actually watching game tape, and they'll know he shouldn't be the answer. If a team like San Jose thinks bringing in Brodeur as insurance for Niemi is a good option...well good luck. Even then, I don't think Brodeur wants to be an insurance policy. Niemi has played 75% of the Sharks regular season games over the last 4 years and has done well. Brodeur on the bench is not beneficial for either party.

 

Yeah, San Jose management is too analytics driven (from what I've heard) and too smart to do something like that (I just tried to throw out an example of a team that has a goalie with a shaky playoff reputation). 

 

My sense is though is that, despite what he's saying publicly, he just enjoys being in the NHL, and the money is good, all things considered.  I think he'd rather not be a backup to a guy he has no chance of poaching starts from, but I also think that he has to realize that he's not going to get a shot with a competitive team.  None of them wanted him at the trade deadline, so I don't know how he could think they want him now. 


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#55 Triumph

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 01:26 PM

Better than paying him $12.6 million over the next two years to be your backup when you can have someone that makes a lot less to make it still a net win overall.  I also don't know if Carolina has rich owners that are willing to eat the real dollars.  Obviously, some teams have shown a willingness to do that.

 

I also can't see anyone trading for Ward unless Garth Snow by some miracle still has a job when the Wang sells the team, and even if Carolina retains half of it.  No one wanted to kick in a few bucks of cap space for Marty for a few months and basically for a fourth round draft pick.  Ward might have actually been worse than Marty over the past two years, so I can't see anyone taking him for a $3.15 cap hit for the next two years. 

 

One:  I don't think the Devils were willing to trade Brodeur.  

 

Two:  Ward has a Stanley Cup ring and several years of being a solid goalie in the NHL.  

 

Three:  Yes, Ward hasn't been great lately, but he's been hurt - and $3M is basically the lowest salary you'll pay for a starting goalie in the NHL.

 

I think someone would pick him up, especially if it was in exchange for a player whose salary was also being picked up by the other team.


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#56 Daniel

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 01:57 PM

One:  I don't think the Devils were willing to trade Brodeur.  

 

 

Sounded like interest from other teams was tepid at best.  Perhaps Lou asked for too much.  Hard to tell.

 

 

Two:  Ward has a Stanley Cup ring and several years of being a solid goalie in the NHL.  

 

Marty's got three of them, and is a first ballot Hall of Famer.  They both stink now, except Ward's younger.

 

 

Three:  Yes, Ward hasn't been great lately, but he's been hurt - and $3M is basically the lowest salary you'll pay for a starting goalie in the NHL.
 

 

But he shouldn't be a starting goalie, or the only advantage he has over Marty is in the age department, and Ward's not really a spring chicken either.

 

 


I think someone would pick him up, especially if it was in exchange for a player whose salary was also being picked up by the other team.

 

Just don't see why you'd take him at even a $3 million cap hit for two years, when you can have Marty for one year, and for maybe half the price with, perhaps with incentives.  Basically, either way you slice it, a team that has any interest in either of them is looking at a chance of catching lightning in a bottle.  (Unless it's a team that's looking to sell a few t-shirts or tank for McDavid).  Ward probably has a marginally better chance at being that guy, but he's also going to prove much more expensive than Marty. 


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#57 Triumph

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 03:23 PM

A year ago you're telling me save percentage doesn't count because who knows if it transfers, now you're telling me that Cam Ward is worse or is at least not better than Brodeur because in exactly one season out of the last 4, he's posted a worse save percentage, and in 2 other seasons he posted a considerably better one?  And he's 30 years old and not 42?  Luck plays a large part in single season save percentages - I'm not ready to declare Ward done at 30, and neither should the rest of the NHL.


Edited by Triumph, 08 May 2014 - 03:23 PM.

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#58 Daniel

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 03:27 PM

A year ago you're telling me save percentage doesn't count because who knows if it transfers, now you're telling me that Cam Ward is worse or is at least not better than Brodeur because in exactly one season out of the last 4, he's posted a worse save percentage, and in 2 other seasons he posted a considerably better one? And he's 30 years old and not 42? Luck plays a large part in single season save percentages - I'm not ready to declare Ward done at 30, and neither should the rest of the NHL.


I've come around to it, what can I say. Probably because we had a goalie that had a good one. My only point about Marty is that notwithstanding his save percentage he hasn't been a calamity, except until this year.


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#59 grcenter47

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 03:32 PM

if brodeur leaves and we sign schneider long term....... 

 

 

would we be looking to sign for one year a cheap backup during free agency (clemmensen, giguere or vokoun)

 

 

or calling up kinkaid?


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#60 devilsrule33

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 03:36 PM

if brodeur leaves and we sign schneider long term....... 

 

 

would we be looking to sign for one year a cheap backup during free agency (clemmensen, giguere or vokoun)

 

 

or calling up kinkaid?

 

I think Lou looks for a proven NHL goalie over Kinkaid. Cory has never been a starter in an 82-game NHL season, and I think Lou wants someone who has NHL experience to play 20 or so games. Of course, I doubt Kinkaid could be much worse than Brodeur of last year..and definitely not worse than Hedberg of '13, but you could probably find better in free agency than Kinkaid.


Edited by devilsrule33, 08 May 2014 - 03:36 PM.

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