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Trading one of the Young Defensemen


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#41 devilsrule33

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 02:06 PM

No to Michalek. Just no. Insert Michael Scott The Office GIF


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#42 RizzMB30

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 02:35 PM

No to Michalek. Just no. Insert Michael Scott The Office GIF

 

Okay......I'm hearing protests, but no real arguments against bringing him in.  He's always been a point getter, he plays in both ends, he can play on the left or the right side, where we are seriously lacking.  He's paid a very modest price salary right now at 4.3 a year, and if he's willing to come here for 4.5 or 5 million a year for 1 or 2 years.  That would be a good pickup.  I also think that Vrbata would be a great choice to bring in, despite his age. 
 

I could live with Michalek, but Jokinen? No thanks. The free agents that are available are underwhelming this year. I could see Lou adding one winger through FA and going after Stastny, but to get the type scorer of guy we need we'll need to make a trade.

That's a scorer that can help fill out our top 6.  Boom, we waste no assets or resources by acquiring him and granted he's probably looking for a long-term deal.  I'd take Michalek over Ryder or Brunner any day. 


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#43 Mitico12

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 02:35 PM

I'd love to see Kane in NJ, but doubt it will happen.

 

Patrick Kane, yes.  Evander Kane I'll pass.


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#44 MadDog2020

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 02:37 PM

Okay......I'm hearing protests, but no real arguments against bringing him in. He's always been a point getter, he plays in both ends, he can play on the left or the right side, where we are seriously lacking. He's paid a very modest price salary right now at 4.3 a year, and if he's willing to come here for 4.5 or 5 million a year for 1 or 2 years. That would be a good pickup. I also think that Vrbata would be a great choice to bring in, despite his age.

That's a scorer that can help fill out our top 6. Boom, we waste no assets or resources by acquiring him and granted he's probably looking for a long-term deal. I'd take Michalek over Ryder or Brunner any day.

I could very well be wrong, but I think Lou has something up his sleeve no one sees coming. Like the Schneider trade last year.
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#45 Triumph

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 03:59 PM

Michalek is clearly entering the decline phase of his career and it's not like the before the decline phase were all that great either.  I think it's a pretty easy pass on him.


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#46 devilsrule33

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 04:53 PM

Okay......I'm hearing protests, but no real arguments against bringing him in.  He's always been a point getter, he plays in both ends, he can play on the left or the right side, where we are seriously lacking.  He's paid a very modest price salary right now at 4.3 a year, and if he's willing to come here for 4.5 or 5 million a year for 1 or 2 years.  That would be a good pickup.  I also think that Vrbata would be a great choice to bring in, despite his age. 
 

That's a scorer that can help fill out our top 6.  Boom, we waste no assets or resources by acquiring him and granted he's probably looking for a long-term deal.  I'd take Michalek over Ryder or Brunner any day. 

 

He's had way too many surgeries. He gets great minutes playing shotgun with Spezza and still puts up sh!t numbers. He is supposed to be a pure goal scorer, yet only has 21 goals in his last 105 games. Michalek will be a bad signing for any team that gets him.


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#47 thefiestygoat

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 05:00 PM

I'm against Michalek for a few reasons:
- He will be 30 next year so you'd end up signing him for his decline years and paying a pretty price.
- His points per game rate has declined for 3 straight seasons.
- His zone starts over the past 3 years suggest he's relies on being put in a position to succeed (62.1, 60.8, 56.8).
- He doesn't seem to drive play all that much relative to his team with CF% Rel all around 0.
- He's also played with Spezza a lot for the past 3 seasons which inflated his numbers, just like his 16.5 SH% in 2011-12 helped him reach 35 goals when he's more of a 15-20 goal scorer (if that) at this point.


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#48 thefiestygoat

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 05:05 PM

Patrick Kane, yes.  Evander Kane I'll pass.

Evander Kane may have some attitude issues but there is no doubting his skill and results.

- Will turn 23 in August and is under contract thru 2017-18 with a $5.25M cap hit.
- Over the past 3 years, about average to above average CF% Rel.
- Played in all situations the past 2 years.
- Above the 75th percentile in points per game in every year of his career except his rookie year, hovered around the 90th percentile over his past 3 years.
- Either above or at the 90th percentile in goals per game over the past 3 years. Went above the 95th percentile in 2011-12 and just around it in 2012-13.


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#49 DH26

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 05:59 PM

Evander Kane may have some attitude issues but there is no doubting his skill and results.

- Will turn 23 in August and is under contract thru 2017-18 with a $5.25M cap hit.
- Over the past 3 years, about average to above average CF% Rel.
- Played in all situations the past 2 years.
- Above the 75th percentile in points per game in every year of his career except his rookie year, hovered around the 90th percentile over his past 3 years.
- Either above or at the 90th percentile in goals per game over the past 3 years. Went above the 95th percentile in 2011-12 and just around it in 2012-13.

 

who knows what kinds of issues he really has anyway. The Winnipeg media doesn't exactly seem "progressive" if you catch my drift. Or bright, they love Pavelec. Kane might just be getting railroaded like Subban was before he blew everyone out of the water (not that he's as good as Subban or ever will be)


Edited by DH26, 06 June 2014 - 05:59 PM.

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#50 The 29th Pick

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 06:04 PM

I dont think we're in a position to be "picky"


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#51 CarpathianForest

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 07:57 PM

No to Michalek who is a proven two way player, but you're willing to bet the house on Evander Kane who may or may not have potential. I don't know what Kane brings, but if it's anything like what he's done in WPG then they can keep him.


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#52 CarpathianForest

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:01 PM

He's had way too many surgeries. He gets great minutes playing shotgun with Spezza and still puts up sh!t numbers. He is supposed to be a pure goal scorer, yet only has 21 goals in his last 105 games. Michalek will be a bad signing for any team that gets him.

 

Michalek isn't a pure goal scorer. He's a two way forward. If you want a pure goal scorer then you go after Jokinen who has put up solid numbers even when he was on subpar teams.


Michalek is clearly entering the decline phase of his career and it's not like the before the decline phase were all that great either.  I think it's a pretty easy pass on him.

 

What evidence do you have that points to a decline for Michalek. I don't see it.


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#53 DH26

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:32 PM

Michalek isn't a pure goal scorer. He's a two way forward. If you want a pure goal scorer then you go after Jokinen who has put up solid numbers even when he was on subpar teams.


 

What evidence do you have that points to a decline for Michalek. I don't see it.

 

Michalek's scored a combined 21 goals in his last 105 games and hasn't scored much besides the 35 goal season randomly in there and that was the only time he ever scored 30. And he's only scored over 20 once since 2010 and that was with an unsustainable shooting percentage


Edited by DH26, 06 June 2014 - 09:33 PM.

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#54 thefiestygoat

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 11:27 PM

No to Michalek who is a proven two way player, but you're willing to bet the house on Evander Kane who may or may not have potential. I don't know what Kane brings, but if it's anything like what he's done in WPG then they can keep him.

Did you see my post on Kane? He's not about potential, he's already a proven player who only stands to get better as he enters his prime. Michalek is leaving his prime and only stands to get worse. Michalek in his prime hasn't even been better than an early career Kane:

Points Per Game
Michalek - 2013-14: .476, 2012-13: .609, 2011-12: .779
Kane: - 2013-14: .651, 2012-13: .688, 2011-12: .770

Kane has a better points per game rate the past 2 seasons and a similar one 3 years ago. Over the past 3 seasons Michalek ranks 106th in points per game while Kane ranks 68th.

Goals Per Game
Michalek - 2013-14: .207, 2012-13: .174, 2011-12: .455
Kane: - 2013-14: .302, 2012-13: .354, 2011-12: .405

Kane has a better goals per game rate the past 2 seasons and isn't that far off Michalek's inflated 2011-12 season. Over the past 3 seasons Michalek ranks 55th in goals per game while Kane ranks 34th.

 

Focusing on Kane, he's already been around or above the 90th percentile in points per game and goals per game over the past 3 years as an age 20-22 player. He's signed at reasonable price till 2018. Kane's biggest weakness is being young and having a personality that rubs people the wrong way. Sure hope Lou can add more "character" players instead of guys with skill.


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#55 RizzMB30

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 02:52 AM

Michalek isn't a pure goal scorer. He's a two way forward. If you want a pure goal scorer then you go after Jokinen who has put up solid numbers even when he was on subpar teams.

Yeah, but I don't know....Ryder is suppose to be a "pure"  goal scorer too, but look where that got us.


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#56 EdgeControl

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 07:39 AM

You have to put yourself in the other GMs shoes for a second. what have you seen from our young defensive core to trade away a real NHL proven scorer for one of them??  we've de-valued larsson (or he has, himself). Gelanis played his way out of the top two pairings, and merrill has a small sampling and I dont think we move him anyway.

we have good hockey fans here on the board who dont know what we  have in these kids. (merrill being the exception) its a risky proposition,  imo, now is not a good window to move one of these kids from a value standpoint. somehow make room for fayne, remove a sal or volch, and revisit this next year


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#57 NJDevs4978

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 07:48 AM

Did you see my post on Kane? He's not about potential, he's already a proven player who only stands to get better as he enters his prime. Michalek is leaving his prime and only stands to get worse. Michalek in his prime hasn't even been better than an early career Kane:

Points Per Game
Michalek - 2013-14: .476, 2012-13: .609, 2011-12: .779
Kane: - 2013-14: .651, 2012-13: .688, 2011-12: .770

Kane has a better points per game rate the past 2 seasons and a similar one 3 years ago. Over the past 3 seasons Michalek ranks 106th in points per game while Kane ranks 68th.

Goals Per Game
Michalek - 2013-14: .207, 2012-13: .174, 2011-12: .455
Kane: - 2013-14: .302, 2012-13: .354, 2011-12: .405

Kane has a better goals per game rate the past 2 seasons and isn't that far off Michalek's inflated 2011-12 season. Over the past 3 seasons Michalek ranks 55th in goals per game while Kane ranks 34th.

 

Focusing on Kane, he's already been around or above the 90th percentile in points per game and goals per game over the past 3 years as an age 20-22 player. He's signed at reasonable price till 2018. Kane's biggest weakness is being young and having a personality that rubs people the wrong way. Sure hope Lou can add more "character" players instead of guys with skill.

 

While clearly Kane > Michalek...the fact Kane's scoring has actually gone DOWN the last two years would be a big concern to me considering all we'd have to give up to get him.


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#58 2ELIAS6

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 08:02 AM

I dont think we're in a position to be "picky"

were definently not, its no secret that we absolutely need to make some type of trade to bring in someone to help fill some empty holes, yet at the same time i would hate to see the house given away to do it so to say if you know what i mean. However i dont think lou would do that anyway, i dont think we will get any big exciting names in free agency and i dont think we will get any drastic trade either.. but hey you never know.. if we could scoop up one of the bigger names in FA this year maybe stastny? and make a pretty effective trade we could be a very different team for next season. Got to have some faith.
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