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#41 dmann422

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 10:34 AM

I'm not giving them the credit of it "being a very close series", that's malarkey. The pundits are right, in their hindsight breakdown of the series:

- No goals for the Rangers in any game after the 2nd period.
- Kings outshooting the hell out of NY in the second half of each game, to an embarrassing degree. People who never watched hockey before could see the Kings as the better team in every game as they approached the second 30 minutes of the game.
- The "luck" they say that let the fateful goal in Game 2 not be whistled off is a fraction of the luck I saw in play in Game 4, with crossbars and pucks stopping on the goal line, to avoid a sweep.

This series was never close. Kings-Devils in 2012 was a true dogfight, if you want to compare the two.

absolutely, the rangers were outshot 194-129 in the series. It was not close in all but the scoreboard. The kings were obviously the better team (as they were in 2012 too, but the that series was more competitive.)

Actually the nba and nhl finals were scary similar. Both "kings" carried their team but it wasn't really a contest. The only difference is that in basketball if you get thoroughly outplayed it shows on the scoreboard. In hockey that's not necessarily the case.

Also want to make a point that just because it wasn't that competitive doesn't mean it wasn't entertaining- watching the kings throw everything they had and just not finding the net at times was insanely frustrating but in a good way (at least I can say that now that I know the result).

Edited by dmann422, 16 June 2014 - 10:35 AM.

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#42 redruM

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 03:02 PM

rangers stillscare me, speed kills and they have a ton of speed, they are certainly much closer than NJ...


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#43 BlueSkirt

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 08:29 PM

I exhaled again today. 


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#44 Derek21

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 12:46 AM

I'm not giving them the credit of it "being a very close series", that's malarkey. The pundits are right, in their hindsight breakdown of the series:

 

- No goals for the Rangers in any game after the 2nd period.

- Kings outshooting the hell out of NY in the second half of each game, to an embarrassing degree. People who never watched hockey  before could see the Kings as the better team in every game as they approached the second 30 minutes of the game.

- The "luck" they say that let the fateful goal in Game 2 not be whistled off is a fraction of the luck I saw in play in Game 4, with crossbars and pucks stopping on the goal line, to avoid a sweep.

 

This series was never close. Kings-Devils in 2012 was a true dogfight, if you want to compare the two.

 

 

It was close. The two series are comparable. First two games went to overtime with LA prevailing. There's only one difference. The 2014 Kings were much better than the 2012 Kings.


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#45 Satans Hockey

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 08:21 AM

It was close. The two series are comparable. First two games went to overtime with LA prevailing. There's only one difference. The 2014 Kings were much better than the 2012 Kings.


I disagree. That 2012 Kings knocked off the president's trophy Vancouver Canucks in 5 games and then swept the 2nd seeded St Louis Blues.

The 2012 also went up 3-0 in the series in every series! They were completely dominate.

This 2014 should have been knocked out in the first round but the gutless Sharks let them hang around.
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#46 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:12 AM

It was close. The two series are comparable. First two games went to overtime with LA prevailing. There's only one difference. The 2014 Kings were much better than the 2012 Kings.

 

2012 Quick:  20 GP, 1.41 GAA, .946 save%, 26.9 shots faced per game, 61:55 TOI per game

2014 Quick:  26 GP, 2.58 GAA, .911 save%, 29.8 shots faced per game, 61:44 TOI per game  

 

In the regular season, when eliminating phantom shootout goals, the '12 Kings allowed 170 goals and the '14 Kings allowed 168, so there's no real smoking gun there.  The regular season is clearly a different beast (and every season we see evidence that being the "best" regular season team doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot anymore), but the '12 Kings finished up with 95 points and the '14 Kings ended the season with 100 points.  Also, the '12 Kings finished up their season fairly strong...after starting their season 14-14-4, they went 26-13-9 the rest of the way, including 12-4-3 in their final 19 when they needed wins to stay in the race (they also made the deal for Jeff Carter).  Their regular season record was a little misleading.  

 

Just not seeing how the '14 Kings were that much better than the '12 Kings. 


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#47 DevsMan84

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:40 AM

2012 Quick:  20 GP, 1.41 GAA, .946 save%, 26.9 shots faced per game, 61:55 TOI per game

2014 Quick:  26 GP, 2.58 GAA, .911 save%, 29.8 shots faced per game, 61:44 TOI per game  

 

In the regular season, when eliminating phantom shootout goals, the '12 Kings allowed 170 goals and the '14 Kings allowed 168, so there's no real smoking gun there.  The regular season is clearly a different beast (and every season we see evidence that being the "best" regular season team doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot anymore), but the '12 Kings finished up with 95 points and the '14 Kings ended the season with 100 points.  Also, the '12 Kings finished up their season fairly strong...after starting their season 14-14-4, they went 26-13-9 the rest of the way, including 12-4-3 in their final 19 when they needed wins to stay in the race (they also made the deal for Jeff Carter).  Their regular season record was a little misleading.  

 

Just not seeing how the '14 Kings were that much better than the '12 Kings. 

 

The 2012 Kings were much better than the 2014 Kings, but butthurt Rags fans want to think otherwise to make themselves feel better.


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#48 devilsrule33

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:47 AM

2012 Quick:  20 GP, 1.41 GAA, .946 save%, 26.9 shots faced per game, 61:55 TOI per game

2014 Quick:  26 GP, 2.58 GAA, .911 save%, 29.8 shots faced per game, 61:44 TOI per game  

 

In the regular season, when eliminating phantom shootout goals, the '12 Kings allowed 170 goals and the '14 Kings allowed 168, so there's no real smoking gun there.  The regular season is clearly a different beast (and every season we see evidence that being the "best" regular season team doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot anymore), but the '12 Kings finished up with 95 points and the '14 Kings ended the season with 100 points.  Also, the '12 Kings finished up their season fairly strong...after starting their season 14-14-4, they went 26-13-9 the rest of the way, including 12-4-3 in their final 19 when they needed wins to stay in the race (they also made the deal for Jeff Carter).  Their regular season record was a little misleading.  

 

Just not seeing how the '14 Kings were that much better than the '12 Kings. 

 

I'd say these Kings were a much stronger team top to bottom than they were in 2012. The West was an absolute jungle this season, so it doesn't matter to me that it was a grind for the 2014 Kings to get to the Finals. The 2012 Kings flew through the playoffs, but beating that Vancouver team is now not considered such an accomplishment, and Phoenix was a nice story but out of their league. SH can mention that this team was the 1seed or the 2seed, but that isn't so important when you consider a team as good as LA was the 8 seed.

 

Yes, Quick was not as strong in the playoffs, but he was just as good in the Finals as he was in 2012, so if that's what Derek is debating on, then you have to concede that. Doughty was stronger, Voynov and Martinez are better. Add Muzzin and get rid of Scuderi. Carter is more comfortable in their system. They added Gaborik. Kopitar is a more complete player. Strong young talent in Toffoli and Pearson. King and Clifford are so much better.

 

I like the 2014 Kings in a landslide. 


Edited by devilsrule33, 19 June 2014 - 09:57 AM.

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#49 MadDog2020

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 10:02 AM

The 2012 Kings were much better than the 2014 Kings, but butthurt Rags fans want to think otherwise to make themselves feel better.

Its like you invaded my mind DM lmao.
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#50 Triumph

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 10:25 AM

I'd say these Kings were a much stronger team top to bottom than they were in 2012. The West was an absolute jungle this season, so it doesn't matter to me that it was a grind for the 2014 Kings to get to the Finals. The 2012 Kings flew through the playoffs, but beating that Vancouver team is now not considered such an accomplishment, and Phoenix was a nice story but out of their league. SH can mention that this team was the 1seed or the 2seed, but that isn't so important when you consider a team as good as LA was the 8 seed.

 

Yes, Quick was not as strong in the playoffs, but he was just as good in the Finals as he was in 2012, so if that's what Derek is debating on, then you have to concede that. Doughty was stronger, Voynov and Martinez are better. Add Muzzin and get rid of Scuderi. Carter is more comfortable in their system. They added Gaborik. Kopitar is a more complete player. Strong young talent in Toffoli and Pearson. King and Clifford are so much better.

 

I like the 2014 Kings in a landslide. 

 

They are better, but you can't discount the decline of Brown Richards and Stoll - all three guys had pretty terrible seasons.  Pearson and Toffoli are good offensive players, not sure they are play drivers yet.  But Gaborik makes this Kings team definitely better than the 2012 version.


Edited by Triumph, 19 June 2014 - 10:26 AM.

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#51 DH26

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 10:31 AM

They are better, but you can't discount the decline of Brown Richards and Stoll - all three guys had pretty terrible seasons.  Pearson and Toffoli are good offensive players, not sure they are play drivers yet.  But Gaborik makes this Kings team definitely better than the 2012 version.

 

Idk I think Quick being basically Hasek in 2012 makes that team better since overall he nearly got them eliminated 3 times and with him as Hasek/Roy/Lunqvist/whoever in 2012 they decimated teams and I think that is worth more than Gaborik when Brown/Richards/Stoll were still good 


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#52 Triumph

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 10:34 AM

Idk I think Quick being basically Hasek in 2012 makes that team better since overall he nearly got them eliminated 3 times and with him as Hasek/Roy/Lunqvist/whoever in 2012 they decimated teams and I think that is worth more than Gaborik when Brown/Richards/Stoll were still good 

 

There was no reason to expect Quick to be that good in the Cup Final.  We already went through this with J.S. Gigeure - Quick is a good goalie who played like a great goalie in that playoff, but there's no reason why Quick couldn't've played great in the Final this year, and no reason why he couldn't've played poorly in the 2012 Final.


Edited by Triumph, 19 June 2014 - 10:35 AM.

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#53 2ELIAS6

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 10:56 AM

rangers stillscare me, speed kills and they have a ton of speed, they are certainly much closer than NJ...

theyve been faster than us for a while now.. i think nj has just been a slow team. The kings couldnt keep up with their speed either from what i remember in the first couple periods of the first couple of games
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#54 Satans Hockey

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 11:09 AM

I'd say these Kings were a much stronger team top to bottom than they were in 2012. The Westo was an absolute jungle this season, so it doesn't matter to me that it was a grind for the 2014 Kings to get to the Finals. The 2012 Kings flew through the playoffs, but beating that Vancouver team is now not considered such an accomplishment, and Phoenix was a nice story but out of their league. SH can mention that this team was the 1seed or the 2seed, but that isn't so important when you consider a team as good as LA was the 8 seed.

Yes, Quick was not as strong in the playoffs, but he was just as good in the Finals as he was in 2012, so if that's what Derek is debating on, then you have to concede that. Doughty was stronger, Voynov and Martinez are better. Add Muzzin and get rid of Scuderi. Carter is more comfortable in their system. They added Gaborik. Kopitar is a more complete player. Strong young talent in Toffoli and Pearson. King and Clifford are so much better.

I like the 2014 Kings in a landslide.

You can say seeds don't matter in this scenario but no #8 seed has ever won the cup before.

Plus they also went 8-0 on the road.

Edited by Satans Hockey, 19 June 2014 - 11:10 AM.

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#55 devilsrule33

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 11:22 AM

You can say seeds don't matter in this scenario but no #8 seed has ever won the cup before.

Plus they also went 8-0 on the road.

 

The Kings were dominant in the  2012 playoffs. No question. But to me that doesn't answer who was a better team or not. The Colorado Avalanche finished with more points than Chicago and San Jose this year.. Using conference seedings isn't all that important. The regular season can put a great team or an average team in all sorts of positions.

 

I don't plan on arguing with anyone outside this board which team was better and the thought of Devils fans and Rangers fans debating who lost in 5 games to the better team might be the most pathetic thing ever. 


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#56 roomtemp

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 11:29 AM

I'll say it this way the 2014 is better on paper but the 2012 team played better. Especially Quick. A better team would have stolen either game 1 or 2 if not both because the Kings were a tired team after the grueling schedule.


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#57 Zubie#8

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 01:24 PM

2012 beter defense, system and goaltending
2014 better offense
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#58 DJ Eco

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 01:29 PM

I'll say it this way the 2014 is better on paper but the 2012 team played better. Especially Quick. A better team would have stolen either game 1 or 2 if not both because the Kings were a tired team after the grueling schedule.

 

Agree 100%.

 

Boston-LA probably would've gone 7 games. Can't imagine being a Bruins fan watching Montreal get absolutely bitch-slapped by the Rangers, they were awful.


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#59 Devils Pride 26

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 04:53 PM

I'll say it this way the 2014 is better on paper but the 2012 team played better. Especially Quick. A better team would have stolen either game 1 or 2 if not both because the Kings were a tired team after the grueling schedule.


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#60 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 07:26 AM

The 2012 Kings were much better than the 2014 Kings, but butthurt Rags fans want to think otherwise to make themselves feel better.

 

For reasons others have stated, I think the 2014 Kings were a little better than the 2012 Kings (when your goalie is stopping 94.6% of the shots coming his way, you're simply not going to lose a whole lot...that kind of goaltending is going to make a lot of teams look better than they are), but my issue with Derek's statement was him making it sound like the 2014 Kings were light-years better.  That I don't see. 


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[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
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