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Marty and the Queen Have a Drink


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#1 msweet

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 01:51 PM

I am tired of people talking about Lunquist like he is the greatest. He's a very good goalie and that's all.

 

I am tired of the Queen giving Interviews like the one last night on MSG and talking about how the Rangers hit so many posts. I guess he missed how many times he got lucky?  .. think the of the crappy MSG ice stop from game 4...And I will never forget him accusing Marty of diving when he's like Greg Louganis.

 

The best part of the finals for me is that Cup winning goal was only possible because of the world record rebound given up by him. 

 

Enjoy

 

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#2 mfitz804

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 02:13 PM

I am tired of people talking about Lunquist like he is the greatest. He's a very good goalie and that's all.
 
I am tired of the Queen giving Interviews like the one last night on MSG and talking about how the Rangers hit so many posts. I guess he missed how many times he got lucky?  .. think the of the crappy MSG ice stop from game 4...And I will never forget him accusing Marty of diving when he's like Greg Louganis.
 
The best part of the finals for me is that Cup winning goal was only possible because of the world record rebound given up by him. 
 
Enjoy
 
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#3 MadDog2020

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 02:49 PM

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#4 devilsrule33

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:04 PM

You don't have to like Lundqvist the person, even though I think the reasons are a little far fetched (I mean the things people are bringing up...well you now can find any reason to hate any player that ever played hockey). But, if you can't see that he is one of the best goalies in the game today, well that's a shame.

 

Hockey is a team sport.. If you think prime Brodeur was winning a Cup with this team...I think you'd be wrong. Prime Roy too. Maybe the greatest puck-stopper of all-time, Dominik Hasek, couldn't win a Cup, no matter how good he played, until he went to the loaded Wings (who also added Brett Hull and Luc Robitaille to fill out their roster).

 

After all the ridiculous saves Henrik made last night, you're going to go after him for that rebound. I'm not a goalie expert, but isn't that a set kind of play for teams because it is almost impossible for any goalie to properly control that rebound on a low shot off the wing?

 

Yes it is a Devils message board, and the Rangers are the team's biggest rivalries, but it's also a place where we talk NHL hockey, and Lundqvist has been one of the best goalies over the last 7-8 years. If the Rangers to win the Cup, Lundqvist would probably have had to play at a level that has never been played by any goalie in Stanley Cup history.

 

You brought up Brodeur, so I'll go along with it. Martin Brodeur was fantastic in all 3 finals, but he also played in front of some of the greatest defensive teams and some teams that were able to score quite a few goals for him in the Finals for him. He was not asked to do anything remotely close to what Lundqvist was asked to do in these Finals. At no point in any of the 3 Finals wins did the Devils not get the better of the play.

 

In the 3 Cup Finals that the Devils won, only 1 of the 17 games played did Brodeur face more shots than his opponent's goalie. In 9 of those 17 games, he had to make 20 or fewer saves. These were dominant Devils teams.

 

It's pretty obvious Martin Brodeur will have more NHL team success than Henrik Lundqvist. Doesn't take away from Lundqvist's play.

 

EDIT: I know what's coming. I'll step away.


Edited by devilsrule33, 14 June 2014 - 06:12 PM.

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#5 MadDog2020

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:09 PM

No one said he wasn't a great goalie. But can we just have a thread where we rip on a hated rival who hasn't won sh!t in his career, be it his fault, not his fault, whatever? This isn't really a thread for serious debate/discussion. Its a thread to rip on a rival we can't stand.
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#6 Daniel

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:16 PM

You don't have to like Lundqvist the person, even though I think the reasons are a little far fetched (I mean the things people are bringing up...well you now can find any reason to hate any player that ever played hockey). But, if you can't see that he is one of the best goalies in the game today, well that's a shame.

Hockey is a team sport.. If you think prime Brodeur was winning a Cup with this team...I think you'd be wrong. Prime Roy too. Maybe the greatest puck-stopper of all-time, Dominik Hasek, couldn't win a Cup, no matter how good he played, until he went to the loaded Wings (who also added Brett Hull and Luc Robitaille to fill out their roster).

After all the ridiculous saves Henrik made last night, you're going to go after him for that rebound. I'm not a goalie expert, but isn't that a set kind of play for teams because it is almost impossible for any goalie to properly control that rebound on a low show off the wing?

Yes it is a Devils message board, and the Rangers are the team's biggest rivalries, but it's also a place where we talk NHL hockey, and Lundqvist has been one of the best goalies over the last 7-8 years. If the Rangers to win the Cup, Lundqvist would probably have had to play at a level that has never been played by any goalie in Stanley Cup history.

You brought up Brodeur, so I'll go along with it. Martin Brodeur was fantastic in all 3 finals, but he also played in front of some of the greatest defensive teams and some teams that were able to score quite a few goals for him in the Finals for him. He was not asked to do anything remotely close to what Lundqvist was asked to do in these Finals. At no point in any of the 3 Finals wins did the Devils not get the better of the play.

In the 3 Cup Finals that the Devils won, only 1 of the 17 games played did Brodeur face more shots than his opponent's goalie. In 9 of those 17 games, he had to make 20 or fewer saves. These were dominant Devils teams.

It's pretty obvious Martin Brodeur will have more NHL team success than Henrik Lundqvist. Doesn't take away from Lundqvist's play.

EDIT: I know what's coming. I'll step away.


The only thing I'll say is that Lundqvist is that he has definitely benefitted from a deep defensive unit, and a team that stresses two way play if not defense first. That's certainly what Renney was all about, and we know that Torts stressed shot blocking and collapsing around the net. So it's not like he's a goalie who's routinely left out to dry. He's been pretty durable up til now, so we don't really know if another goalie would have similar success. However if you used the eyeball test, and looked at the stat sheet, Cam Talbot was also very good when he got the opportunities.

Otherwise, from someone who wants the Rangers to lose as many games as possible, I would be thrilled if Lundqvist pulled a Kovy and went back to Sweden or the KHL. The Rags would definitely be a much worse team without him.


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#7 devilsrule33

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:27 PM

No one said he wasn't a great goalie. But can we just have a thread where we rip on a hated rival who hasn't won sh!t in his career, be it his fault, not his fault, whatever? This isn't really a thread for serious debate/discussion. Its a thread to rip on a rival we can't stand.

 

MD2020, I'm not trying to be debbie downer here, but we got 7-8 threads making fun of the Rangers. I think the RANGERS SUCK thread is a pretty dedicated one too. Msweet's post is the norm around here (and I'm sure he'll come back to say "Bingo" to your post), so it is tough to distinguish what people really think, what they want to think, or if they are just making fun of him because he lost.

 

The thing is...it seems all of the celebration and laughter is at the expense of Lundqvist (pretty much exclusively) I think there are reasons for that and some of that is the continuation of Devils fans finding ways to diminish any of his accomplishments throughout his career

 

And Daniel, Lundqvist has been on some defensive teams, but so have most of the great goalies that we talk up from Quick, Rask, Rinne and all the other greats in NHL history. The goalies that aren't on somewhat good defensive teams can not go far in the playoffs and won't have good team stats like GAA or Wins that your average fan looks at.


Edited by devilsrule33, 14 June 2014 - 03:36 PM.

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#8 Triumph

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:35 PM

No one said he wasn't a great goalie. But can we just have a thread where we rip on a hated rival who hasn't won sh!t in his career, be it his fault, not his fault, whatever? This isn't really a thread for serious debate/discussion. Its a thread to rip on a rival we can't stand.

 

Yes they did - msweet said it right at the top.  He described Lundqvist as 'very good'.  

 

Lundqvist has a .930 SV% the last 3 years in the playoffs and he's a .500 goalie there.  He'll join Martin Brodeur in the Hall of Fame someday.  I'm hoping he'll be talked about in the same breath with Marcel Dionne and Dale Hawerchuk etc. as players who were never able to win the Stanley Cup.  And he is also an enormous diver.


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#9 Neb00rs

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:36 PM

No one said he wasn't a great goalie. But can we just have a thread where we rip on a hated rival who hasn't won sh!t in his career, be it his fault, not his fault, whatever? This isn't really a thread for serious debate/discussion. Its a thread to rip on a rival we can't stand.

This exactly. MD2020 on point as usual. It's the day after the Rags lost, we can celebrate for a bit, especially after all the a$$hole sh!t the do. We aren't going and throwing it in their faces.

I'm really tired of the pervasive elitist attitude around here that says "We actually shouldn't hate the Rangers but the rest of you are too dumb to understand why. Now I have to make you all understand that Lundqvist is a good goalie"

Defending the Rangers is fine to do on this board but don't come a marching into Rangers suck-type threads telling the rest of us we can't have fun.

Edit: If we are still making fun of Lundqvist for yesterday's goal in one year's time while the Devils are out of the playoffs then y'all will have a point and we will have become what we most feared: Ranger fans.

Edited by Neb00rs, 14 June 2014 - 03:40 PM.

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#10 msweet

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:39 PM

No one said he wasn't a great goalie. But can we just have a thread where we rip on a hated rival who hasn't won sh!t in his career, be it his fault, not his fault, whatever? This isn't really a thread for serious debate/discussion. Its a thread to rip on a rival we can't stand.

 

This

 

ok...all of you Queen defenders, go Ebay your Brodeur jerseys and buy a Lundquist one.

 

This thread is about enjoying what happened yesterday so stop arguing to make yourself relevant. This is a friggin Devils forum and this thread is for fun.

Shall I find the interview where he accuses Marty of diving?

 

Lunquist is great in MY MIND when he wins something meaningful. He plays for the Rags, whines and dives. He's deserves a lot more crvp than I have given him here.


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#11 Daniel

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:40 PM

And Daniel, Lundqvist has been on some defensive teams, but so have most of the great goalies that we talk up from Quick, Rask, Rinne and all the other greats in NHL history. The goalies that aren't on somewhat good defensive teams can not go far in the playoffs and won't have good team stats like GAA or Wins that your average fan looks like.


I suppose the difference is that even Kings, Bruins and Predators fans are not saying their goalies are among the greatest ever, at least not yet. And you'd be hard pressed to find a single of their fans to say that the three goalies you mentioned are better all time goalies than Marty.

Really what it boils down to is that I think you're missing the point. The swipes at Lundqvist are really swipes at the Rangers and their smug fans more than anything else. No one here would make fun of Hasek for "choking" against Dallas, although, just because we're Devils fans, we'll say that Marty is the better all time goalie.


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#12 BlueSkirt

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:41 PM

This is a Devils forum !    Sympathies for our team only...


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#13 mfitz804

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:48 PM

I think he's a great goalie. I just hate the Rangers. Growing up in the mid to late 80s and early 90s as a Devils fan, Rangers fans made fun of me constantly.

It's my life's mission to return the favor.

What do Lundqvist and the Women's Olympic hockey team have in common?

NO CUPS!!
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#14 devilsrule33

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:51 PM

This

 

ok...all of you Queen defenders, go Ebay your Brodeur jerseys and buy a Lundquist one.

 

This thread is about enjoying what happened yesterday so stop arguing to make yourself relevant. This is a friggin Devils forum and this thread is for fun.

Shall I find the interview where he accuses Marty of diving?

 

Lunquist is great in MY MIND when he wins something meaningful. He plays for the Rags, whines and dives. He's deserves a lot more crvp than I have given him here.

 

You've all spoken. I'll step aside on defending Lundqvist for the time being.

 

Why do you think I am arguing to make myself relevant? Nothing to do with that at all. That's uncalled for, and so was your immature line about trading in a Brodeur for Lundqvist jersey.

 

Anyway this was just about Lundqvist, it's a good argument about the worth of goalies and the unfair expectations many have. Your argument is a goalie like Lundqvist needs to win in order to be great. That isn't your argument just for Lundqvist or just for today after the Rangers lost,  but for all goalies and at any time . My point was that I don't think that is the case at all.

 

It's easy for everyone here to say...let's just celebrate the Rangers losing and let us have that moment..and that's fine, but if I re-opened this conversation months later, I think everyone would be arguing the same points.


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#15 The 29th Pick

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:52 PM

This is a Devils forum !    Sympathies for our team only...


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#16 Triumph

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:56 PM

I suppose the difference is that even Kings, Bruins and Predators fans are not saying their goalies are among the greatest ever, at least not yet. And you'd be hard pressed to find a single of their fans to say that the three goalies you mentioned are better all time goalies than Marty.

Really what it boils down to is that I think you're missing the point. The swipes at Lundqvist are really swipes at the Rangers and their smug fans more than anything else. No one here would make fun of Hasek for "choking" against Dallas, although, just because we're Devils fans, we'll say that Marty is the better all time goalie.


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Lundqvist entered the league 9 years ago.  Since then he has 6 top 10 finishes in save percentage.  None of those players have that kind of resume, and when Brodeur retires, it will be Lundqvist and Luongo as the only remaining sure HOF goalies in the league.  Rangers fans are morons - you know there were at least a few watching the Cup Final wondering what happened to Sean Avery.  Still, if Lundqvist retired right now, he'd go to the Hall of Fame, or at least he should.

 

msweet: If you wanted to start a thread about how much Lundqvist is a baby, I'm on board (I miss his free skates to the bench after allowing 4 or 5 goals), but geez, you can't start out saying 'he's very good' and expect everyone to be like 'yeah, I agree with that, sounds good'


Edited by Triumph, 14 June 2014 - 03:57 PM.

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#17 oat77

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:58 PM

 

 

 

You brought up Brodeur, so I'll go along with it. Martin Brodeur was fantastic in all 3 finals, but he also played in front of some of the greatest defensive teams and some teams that were able to score quite a few goals for him in the Finals for him. He was not asked to do anything remotely close to what Lundqvist was asked to do in these Finals. At no point in any of the 3 Finals wins did the Devils not get the better of the play.

 

In the 3 Cup Finals that the Devils won, only 1 of the 17 games played did Brodeur face more shots than his opponent's goalie. In 9 of those 17 games, he had to make 20 or fewer saves. These were dominant Devils teams.

 

It's pretty obvious Martin Brodeur will have more NHL team success than Henrik Lundqvist. Doesn't take away from Lundqvist's play.

 

EDIT: I know what's coming. I'll step away.

 Not attacking here. Just saying all you have to do is look at our 03 cup team. Nieuwendyk was out. Daneyko finishing his career and sitting a lot. And a concussed  Stevens. Then look at that offense. Not what I would call an all star team. Plus Brodeurs 3 shut outs. 


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#18 Triumph

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 04:05 PM

 Not attacking here. Just saying all you have to do is look at our 03 cup team. Nieuwendyk was out. Daneyko finishing his career and sitting a lot. And a concussed  Stevens. Then look at that offense. Not what I would call an all star team. Plus Brodeurs 3 shut outs. 

 

The Devils played against a Ducks team who were one of the worst Cup finalists of all time.  NJ was a much better team.  Brodeur played a tremendous final that year, but even with Nieuwendyk out that NJ team was miles ahead of the Ducks.


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#19 MadDog2020

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 04:38 PM

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#20 Derek21

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 06:17 PM

This

 

ok...all of you Queen defenders, go Ebay your Brodeur jerseys and buy a Lundquist one.

 

This thread is about enjoying what happened yesterday so stop arguing to make yourself relevant. This is a friggin Devils forum and this thread is for fun.

Shall I find the interview where he accuses Marty of diving?

 

Lunquist is great in MY MIND when he wins something meaningful. He plays for the Rags, whines and dives. He's deserves a lot more crvp than I have given him here.

 

 

So because fans here actually respect Lundqvist, they should turn their Devil jerseys in? Come on Matt. Brodeur was one of the biggest divers and whiners ever. But he was tolerated because he won. Our goalie doesn't complain unless it's warranted. He doesn't take underhanded shots at rivals. You know who did? Your goalie. At least some on here have admitted it. If Hank doesn't win a Cup, so be it. He'll still be a Hall Of Famer. A Cup would cement his legacy.


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