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Pat Burns is a HOF'er


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#21 Triumph

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 05:17 PM

You are selling Recchi way too short. He played a ton of games, but I am not thinking compiler like Andreychuk. You could just as easily say the same thing about Modano in the sense that nothing stands out. Recchi did finish top 5 in scoring in 3 of his seasons. 

 

I'm not the captain of the Mark Recchi fan club or anything, but he seemed like a guy that could have gone in this year. No biggie.

 

For Modano, nothing stands out because he never played with another HOF forward in his prime, besides Nieuwendyk, and that might've been only on the power play, if at all.  He also played in a system that stressed defense.  He also scored more of his goals at even strength versus the PP - 29% of modano's goals were PP goals, 35% for Recchi.  

 

Recchi was never a great goal scorer - 1 top 10 finish in goals, that being 9, and that being when he spent most of the year in Pittsburgh playing with Lemieux or Francis.  His 3 seasons where he is top 5 in scoring, he's either playing with Lindros or Lemieux/Francis.  He's a guy who if he hadn't played with those guys could've easily got the Andreychuk tag stuck on him (and indeed Andreychuk's best seasons are in Toronto with Gilmour and the rest are thoroughly good not great).


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#22 mfitz804

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 05:23 PM

Rob Blake? I guess so, although I think he is kind of borderline.
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#23 RizzMB30

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 05:53 PM

I love all the selections, minus Blake really.  I guess he's a pretty big name and was an elite guy.  Hasek was my favorite goalie after Brodeur for a really long time.  Such a great tender and it's good that he got a chance to win those cups in Detroit.  I remember watching the 2002 Cup and that's when Pavel Datsyuk was a friggin rookie.  Datsyuk skated circles around probably half of the Hurricanes in that cup Final.  That was a great series and I was just a kid.  Mike Modano.  He is the real captain america.  I don't know how you can be an American and not be a fan of the guy.  He even left the game as a class act.  One of those guys who was loyal to his first team until the end.  His last night in Dallas was pretty emotional.  Forsberg is just Forsberg. 


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#24 devilsrule33

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 05:54 PM

For Modano, nothing stands out because he never played with another HOF forward in his prime, besides Nieuwendyk, and that might've been only on the power play, if at all.  He also played in a system that stressed defense.  He also scored more of his goals at even strength versus the PP - 29% of modano's goals were PP goals, 35% for Recchi.  

 

Recchi was never a great goal scorer - 1 top 10 finish in goals, that being 9, and that being when he spent most of the year in Pittsburgh playing with Lemieux or Francis.  His 3 seasons where he is top 5 in scoring, he's either playing with Lindros or Lemieux/Francis.  He's a guy who if he hadn't played with those guys could've easily got the Andreychuk tag stuck on him (and indeed Andreychuk's best seasons are in Toronto with Gilmour and the rest are thoroughly good not great).

 

You are right. I did look back at all of Modano's teams, and it is amazing what he did with very little help.

 

It didn't sway the HHOF voters, but Recchi's end to his career was fantastic. A great deadline pickup by the Canes with a good playoff performance and a few solid years with Boston. He was a really nice player for the Bruins Cup team at 42 no less. Also, 99-00 was a really great year without Lindros for a nice chunk.

 

Having said all that, I may have been too strong in my first post about Recchi over Modano. Thing is Recchi has everything the committee usually eats up, so who the fvck knows.

 

I really hate the entire process. A guy who has a really strong opinion on one player can sway an entire room either way. If you don't have anyone in their fighting for you, you might be in trouble. Do we have any doubt that Pat Quinn wasn't making his best case to everyone for Bure a few years ago?


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"It goes to the captain and then there are handoffs during a skate around the ice" Mike Emrick as Scott Stevens is being presented the Stanley Cup.


#25 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 06:15 PM

For Modano, nothing stands out because he never played with another HOF forward in his prime, besides Nieuwendyk, and that might've been only on the power play, if at all.  He also played in a system that stressed defense.  He also scored more of his goals at even strength versus the PP - 29% of modano's goals were PP goals, 35% for Recchi.  

 

Recchi was never a great goal scorer - 1 top 10 finish in goals, that being 9, and that being when he spent most of the year in Pittsburgh playing with Lemieux or Francis.  His 3 seasons where he is top 5 in scoring, he's either playing with Lindros or Lemieux/Francis.  He's a guy who if he hadn't played with those guys could've easily got the Andreychuk tag stuck on him (and indeed Andreychuk's best seasons are in Toronto with Gilmour and the rest are thoroughly good not great).

 

re:  Andreychuk, I posted this a long time ago, but prior to his offense declining, he was about a point-per-game player through his first 1083 GP (503 G, 558 A, 1061 Pts, +56).  His numbers at that point were very similar to Joey Mullen's career numbers (1062 GP, 502 G, 561 A, 1063 Pts, +163), who got in pretty quickly (in 2000, last played in 1997)...of course, Mullen won three Cups.  Andreychuk's overall point-per-game average clearly took a hit from '97-'98 on (he was also a -66 in that time frame), which seems to be hurting his case. 

 

re:  Modano, yeah, you pretty much summed it up.  Same reasons why Elias' numbers aren't as awe-inspiring as they could've been (but he'll still wind up with 400 G and 600 A).


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#26 devilsrule33

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 06:22 PM

re:  Andreychuk, I posted this a long time ago, but prior to his offense declining, he was about a point-per-game player through his first 1083 GP (503 G, 558 A, 1061 Pts, +56).  His numbers at that point were very similar to Joey Mullen's career numbers (1062 GP, 502 G, 561 A, 1063 Pts, +163), who got in pretty quickly (in 2000, last played in 1997)...of course, Mullen won three Cups.  Andreychuk's overall point-per-game average clearly took a hit from '97-'98 on (he was also a -66 in that time frame), which seems to be hurting his case. 

 

re:  Modano, yeah, you pretty much summed it up.  Same reasons why Elias' numbers aren't as awe-inspiring as they could've been (but he'll still wind up with 400 G and 600 A).

 

Andreychuk and Mullen put up a point-a-game in an era where that wasn't anything special. That should not be enough to get you in the Hall. The fact that Joe Mullen is in the HHOF is pretty silly.


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"The Stanley Cup has fallen from the Stars. The new millennium has its first Stanley Cup Champion, and it's the New Jersey Devils." Mike Miller calling the Devils winning the Stanley Cup.

"It goes to the captain and then there are handoffs during a skate around the ice" Mike Emrick as Scott Stevens is being presented the Stanley Cup.


#27 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 06:34 PM

Andreychuk and Mullen put up a point-a-game in an era where that wasn't anything special. That should not be enough to get you in the Hall. The fact that Joe Mullen is in the HHOF is pretty silly.

 

First American-born player to reach 500 goals and 1000 points.  3 Cups.  I think the fact that he was an American helped his HHOF cause.


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#28 Pepperkorn

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 06:47 PM

So glad Pat is going down in history as a Devil. All the outlets I've seen are calling him NJ Devils coach, Pat Burns


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#29 hit the post

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 07:31 PM

May coach Burns be looking down saying......yeah baby,its about fvcking time.


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#30 Zubie#8

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 07:33 PM

Finally, should of happened years ago but this is well deserved and great to see.
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#31 mouse

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 10:05 PM

Great class. Burns deserved this honor while he was still alive to enjoy it, but it cements his legacy as an all time great coach. Just glad we were lucky enough to reap the benefits, though he didn't get nearly enough time.


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#32 Neb00rs

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 10:21 PM

Surprising and welcome news. Congrats Burnsy.


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#33 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 06:05 AM

Really too bad he couldn't live to see this.  Pat deserved this. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#34 MadDog2020

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 11:10 AM

On NHL Network they showed Pat Quinn and John Davidson making the call to Pat's wife to give her the news... Very emotional. She was obviously thrilled.

Edited by MadDog2020, 24 June 2014 - 11:11 AM.

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#35 devilsrule33

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 11:36 AM

Enough about the other guys from me. Just an amazing day for Pat's family. I know back in 2010, many people were talking about the resume or legitimacy of Burns' candidacy for he to be expedited to the HHOF (and perhaps the HHOF committee had to be fighting with that or why the fvck would they not vote him in back then). But he is one of the great coaches this game has had.

 

People can talk about coach of the year awards, but some are more impressive than others because of the success those teams had in the playoffs too. You can have a coach overachieve in a regular season and lose right away in the playoffs. You can have a team take a crummy team and just sneak in to the playoffs or a coach that rides a hot goalie all season. This is what Pat did in the first year of each of his 4 teams:

 

First year with the Habs: Team finishes with 115 points and goes to the Stanley Cup Finals

First year with the Leafs: Takes over a team with 67 points the year before and leads them one game short of the Stanley Cup Finals

First year with the Bruins: Takes over the worst team in the league (drafted Joe Thornton 1st overall) and the Bruins make the playoffs (Thornton) was a non-factor his rookie year with only 7 points in 55 games).

First year with the Devils: Devils win the Cup 


Edited by devilsrule33, 24 June 2014 - 11:42 AM.

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"The Stanley Cup has fallen from the Stars. The new millennium has its first Stanley Cup Champion, and it's the New Jersey Devils." Mike Miller calling the Devils winning the Stanley Cup.

"It goes to the captain and then there are handoffs during a skate around the ice" Mike Emrick as Scott Stevens is being presented the Stanley Cup.


#36 MadDog2020

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 11:57 AM

Enough about the other guys from me. Just an amazing day for Pat's family. I know back in 2010, many people were talking about the resume or legitimacy of Burns' candidacy for he to be expedited to the HHOF (and perhaps the HHOF committee had to be fighting with that or why the fvck would they not vote him in back then). But he is one of the great coaches this game has had.

People can talk about coach of the year awards, but some are more impressive than others because of the success those teams had in the playoffs too. You can have a coach overachieve in a regular season and lose right away in the playoffs. You can have a team take a crummy team and just sneak in to the playoffs or a coach that rides a hot goalie all season. This is what Pat did in the first year of each of his 4 teams:

First year with the Habs: Team finishes with 115 points and goes to the Stanley Cup Finals

First year with the Leafs: Takes over a team with 67 points the year before and leads them one game short of the Stanley Cup Finals

First year with the Bruins: Takes over the worst team in the league (drafted Joe Thornton 1st overall) and the Bruins make the playoffs (Thornton) was a non-factor his rookie year with only 7 points in 55 games).

First year with the Devils: Devils win the Cup

I'll never forget how he really guided that team through rough waters in game 7 in Ottawa too... When Nieuwendyk couldn't take another shift that night, Burnsie fired them up in between the first and second periods by saying 'there's a guy with a Conn Smythe and a couple of Stanley Cups in there balling his eyes out because he can't help you guys right now'... Langenbrunner then went out and got 2 HUGE goals to give the Devils the lead. After Friesen turned it over leading to Ottawa's tying goal, Burnsie told him when he came back to the bench 'don't worry about it- but you owe me one. Go out there and just get it back'. The rest is history.
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#37 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 12:07 PM

Yeah, pretty amazing how Burns found success everywhere he went, and was able to turn teams around...I know the Maple Leafs were clearly improving their personnel before he got there, but they had been an irrelevant running joke for years before he became their coach...he led them to 99 and 98 points in his first two seasons and made them worth watching.  Seemed like his players really liked him too (though I guess his message had a way of wearing thin in Year 4 or so).  He was definitely the right guy at the right time for the Devils...they needed a guy who wasn't going let the inmates run the asylum, but wasn't Ftorek-level abrasive either.  Burns seemed like he was the best of all worlds.   


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 24 June 2014 - 12:08 PM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#38 MadDog2020

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 05:24 PM

Modano just said on NHL Live that the Devils teams of the late 90's-early 2000's were the toughest teams he ever had to play against in his career. That's a nice complement.
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