Jump to content

Photo

Cammalleri - 5 years at $5M


  • Please log in to reply
138 replies to this topic

#121 dmann422

dmann422

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,509 posts

Posted 06 July 2014 - 06:39 AM

100% wrong, I don't even know what you're angle is. The team was clearly headed in the direction of starting Cory full-time no matter what.


Saying it doesn't make it true - and it isn't.

if you had to guess, how many starts will Cory get this coming season with Kinkaid as the backup?

Now do you honestly believe that it would be the same number if Marty was here?

I agree if Marty was back he will accept a lesser role but it will be at least 25 starts, a lot of them against division rivals.
  • 0

#122 Devils Pride 26

Devils Pride 26

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,022 posts

Posted 06 July 2014 - 08:45 AM

100% wrong, I don't even know what you're angle is. The team was clearly headed in the direction of starting Cory full-time no matter what.


Saying it doesn't make it true - and it isn't.


Probably the angle of putrid things like witchcraft and logic. If Cory starts 60 games at least, then he's replacing 20 of Brodeurs game from last season.
  • 0

#123 sundstrom

sundstrom

    Hall of Famer

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,294 posts

Posted 06 July 2014 - 09:11 AM

'The Devils were trending towards making Schneider the full-time starter' - hmm yeah that sounds about right, wait you mean Brodeur started games post-trade deadline that weren't back to backs? Yeah, let's just retire that idea. Devils don't get 15 goals better unless Schneider takes 30 of Brodeur's starts, which isn't happening, but he could take 20 of them, which would make the team 10 goals better and possibly more.


This was the point of my statement ... And I think Jason's also
  • 0

"This team was never the same once we lost Patrik Sundstrom"- Lou Lamoriello


20082719943.png
_________________________________________________________________
“They’re the ones that makes it happen,” Lemaire said. “It’s not us. It’s not me. It’s not the other guy. It’s not the guy before. It’s not the guy after. It’s them. And they have to take care of business.”
-
"I guess I just miss my friend" (#28)


#124 Marshall

Marshall

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,342 posts

Posted 06 July 2014 - 09:22 AM

Looked a bit at WOWY for Cammalleri and Zajac/Jagr/Greene. Gotta wonder if that 5-man unit (personally would like to see Merrill with Greene) couldn't be a 60%+ CF and Cammalleri getting 10 S/60 at 5v5. He had 9.44 S/60 when he was on the ice with Giordano (and they crushed). 10 S/60 with his ice time at 5v5 from last year (15-ish mins) and 70 games (hey injuries!) would put him at 175 shots on goal. Say he shoots at 13% (conservative number, he shot 15% last season and 14.5 in the season prior to the lockout) and you're looking at 22-23 goals at 5v5 from him. Not bad at all. The big x-factor in all of this is Jagr continuing to be a possession machine like last year.


  • 0

Winner of the 2009-10 Slava Fetisov Award For Best International Poster
Winner of the 2011-2012 RD Avatar Award
believe2.jpg

www.numerartovertag.wordpress.com - An NHL Blog (in Swedish)


#125 Neb00rs

Neb00rs

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,399 posts

Posted 06 July 2014 - 09:32 AM

It's true. It's very true. Brodeur was terrible last year and he'll be terrible this one. Schneider had one of the best save percentages in the league last year while Brodeur had one of the worst. You bring Marty back and he wins a couple of games while Cory struggles, it'll be a disaster again.

 

 

Probably the angle of putrid things like witchcraft and logic. If Cory starts 60 games at least, then he's replacing 20 of Brodeurs game from last season.

 

Neither of you said things I disagree with (but very good math DP26 - good job). I think you both misunderstood/misread. 

 

Let's review:

 

JMI said: "We got 15 goals better by not signing Brodeur."

 

I said: "For that to make sense we would have had to replace Brodeur with someone who is substantially better than him. We did not. We probably could have, but we did not."

 

Sundstrom said: "you did replace brodeur with someone substantially better - his name is cory schneider."

 

I said: "100% wrong, I don't even know what you're angle is. The team was clearly headed in the direction of starting Cory full-time no matter what."

 

 

 

Jason's logic is extremely flawed. I was being factual. We don't just get better by not signing Marty - we have to replace him with someone better. I feel like people are so fast to hate on Marty that they don't even pause to think and realize that my posts aren't defending Marty.

 

The second point I made could be argued over....but the argument is tenuous by the fact that Lou signed Clemmensen. And Sundstrom's statement is absolutely wrong no matter what because it doesn't argue anything - I had to make the argument for him.


Edited by Neb00rs, 06 July 2014 - 09:42 AM.

  • 0

gallery_47_36_882.png of No One
Proud to be King of the Kovalnuts (Est. June 2010 by MantaRay)


#126 Neb00rs

Neb00rs

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,399 posts

Posted 06 July 2014 - 09:43 AM

'The Devils were trending towards making Schneider the full-time starter' - hmm yeah that sounds about right, wait you mean Brodeur started games post-trade deadline that weren't back to backs?  Yeah, let's just retire that idea.  Devils don't get 15 goals better unless Schneider takes 30 of Brodeur's starts, which isn't happening, but he could take 20 of them, which would make the team 10 goals better and possibly more.

 

You may have constructed your post as fact but it's actually conjecture and fluff (the how many games Cory takes from Marty part. You can believe that if you'd like but Marty isn't here, that should tell you a lot.


Edited by Neb00rs, 06 July 2014 - 09:46 AM.

  • 0

gallery_47_36_882.png of No One
Proud to be King of the Kovalnuts (Est. June 2010 by MantaRay)


#127 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,725 posts

Posted 06 July 2014 - 12:20 PM

You may have constructed your post as fact but it's actually conjecture and fluff (the how many games Cory takes from Marty part. You can believe that if you'd like but Marty isn't here, that should tell you a lot.

 

It's very simple.  Brodeur started 9 times in March.  NINE TIMES.  Yes, that's said in the voice of Principal Rooney from Ferris Bueller's Day Off.  

 

And you'll say oh sure but Schneider was struggling and blah blah blah - did this EVER happen with Martin Brodeur between the years of 1999 and 2010?  Did Martin Brodeur's backup ever start NINE GAMES IN MARCH down the stretch because Brodeur was struggling?  And indeed, Brodeur has had his bad months.  So this idea that the Devils were suddenly going to just throw Brodeur into the Yann Danis role if he came back is ludicrous.  Certainly it wouldn't be an even split, but Brodeur is looking for more games than your average backup, he's said so in all his interviews about how much playing time he wants.  And Marty isn't here because HE doesn't want to be here, simple as that.  If he wanted to be back, he would be, and he'd probably start 25 games and steal the #1 goalie spot from Schneider for a time and we'd have a lot of talk from Marty about how he just wants to play and that's what he's here for and he doesn't look at save percentage and Cory's a great guy and it's a shame that both guys can't play goal but for now he's getting the starts and he plays better with more starts.


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#128 Neb00rs

Neb00rs

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,399 posts

Posted 06 July 2014 - 12:33 PM

It's very simple.  Brodeur started 9 times in March.  NINE TIMES.  Yes, that's said in the voice of Principal Rooney from Ferris Bueller's Day Off.  

 

I appreciate your passion on the matter but what does telling me how many times Marty started last March have to do with anything? The team - especially to retain Cory's services - was clearly making him the full-time starter no matter what. Thus, Marty walked.  So back to my original point, we didn't get X amount of goals better because we didn't resign Brodeur because we didn't sign a legit backup. You could say "we got 20 goals better because Cory will start full time this year" - that is fair. I just pointed out that it's not right to say that NO matter which backup replaces Marty, we would be better if Marty is not the backup. That's not true. All games played being equal, we are not any better at the backup position. It's a simple point really, not pro-Marty or anti.

 

 

 

A. And you'll say oh sure but Schneider was struggling and blah blah blah - did this EVER happen with Martin Brodeur between the years of 1999 and 2010?  Did Martin Brodeur's backup ever start NINE GAMES IN MARCH down the stretch because Brodeur was struggling?  And indeed, Brodeur has had his bad months. 

 

B. So this idea that the Devils were suddenly going to just throw Brodeur into the Yann Danis role if he came back is ludicrous.  Certainly it wouldn't be an even split, but Brodeur is looking for more games than your average backup, he's said so in all his interviews about how much playing time he wants.  And Marty isn't here because HE doesn't want to be here, simple as that. 

 

C. If he wanted to be back, he would be, and he'd probably start 25 games and steal the #1 goalie spot from Schneider for a time and we'd have a lot of talk from Marty about how he just wants to play and that's what he's here for and he doesn't look at save percentage and Cory's a great guy and it's a shame that both guys can't play goal but for now he's getting the starts and he plays better with more starts.

 

A. No, I am not saying any of that. Have I argued such things before? Yes, kind of - but that is irrelevant to the argument I made in this thread.

 

B. Well, that's kind of the point isn't it? Marty wasn't going to get what he wants in NJ and so he walked. Cory is the 100% starter.

 

C. I really don't think that's true but we can agree to disagree. As we know, Marty certainly doesn't think he is going to steal it from Cory or he probably would be back. You've made a bit of a contradiction here. Again however, we can disagree on the basic point. I am not sure why you are so angry at him though?

 

I am starting to see that the responses here are not about what I posted, but instead a chance for ya'll to rage at Marty. Be my guest, have at it. It's beside the point though.


Edited by Neb00rs, 06 July 2014 - 12:35 PM.

  • 0

gallery_47_36_882.png of No One
Proud to be King of the Kovalnuts (Est. June 2010 by MantaRay)


#129 hystyk28

hystyk28

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,027 posts

Posted 06 July 2014 - 01:04 PM

Isn't this a thread about Mike Cammalleri?
  • 0

#130 Guadana

Guadana

    Rookie Devil

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 312 posts

Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:20 PM

Isn't this a thread about Mike Cammalleri?

 

everything begins with M means Marty


  • 0
best jersey - jersey without surnames - only with numbers

#131 sundstrom

sundstrom

    Hall of Famer

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,294 posts

Posted 06 July 2014 - 03:27 PM

[quote/] You could say "we got 20 goals better because Cory will start full time this year" - that is fair.[/quote]

That was what I was saying. I said it sarcastically and didn't add to my statement as I assumed it was implied.

Cory getting 20 starts that Marty or any other backup won't is less goals scored against the devils.
  • 0

"This team was never the same once we lost Patrik Sundstrom"- Lou Lamoriello


20082719943.png
_________________________________________________________________
“They’re the ones that makes it happen,” Lemaire said. “It’s not us. It’s not me. It’s not the other guy. It’s not the guy before. It’s not the guy after. It’s them. And they have to take care of business.”
-
"I guess I just miss my friend" (#28)


#132 Neb00rs

Neb00rs

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,399 posts

Posted 06 July 2014 - 05:54 PM

Cory getting 20 starts that Marty or any other backup won't is less goals scored against the devils.

 

 

I agree with this then. I apologize, I did not register your sarcasm. JMI I don't think was sarcastic though.


  • 0

gallery_47_36_882.png of No One
Proud to be King of the Kovalnuts (Est. June 2010 by MantaRay)


#133 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,725 posts

Posted 06 July 2014 - 06:22 PM

I agree with this then. I apologize, I did not register your sarcasm. JMI I don't think was sarcastic though.

 

MacIsaac made a one line post whose meaning I'm sure is the same as sundstrom's and mine and whose meaning you have finally sussed out in your reply to me -  "You could say "we got 20 goals better because Cory will start full time this year" - that is fair."  That's all Jason was trying to say.  

 

I also made no contradiction.  When I talk about a #1 goalie, I'm not talking about one guy getting 45 games and the other one gets 37.  I am talking about that Schneider starts, without question, all non back to back games (or some back to backs and rests against some weaker opponents).  A guy who gets those games almost regardless of how poorly he is doing.  With Brodeur on the team, Schneider would never be in that position.


  • 1

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#134 Jas0nMacIsaac

Jas0nMacIsaac

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,368 posts

Posted 06 July 2014 - 07:52 PM

I didn't think my point was that difficult to understand. Schneider had a down year in terms of sv% so a rebound wouldn't surprise me either. I fully expect him to play 65 games this year at .925. NJ would have to be pretty bad not to make the playoffs at that ratio.


  • 0
A true leader is one who knows when to step aside for others to lead.

#135 Neb00rs

Neb00rs

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,399 posts

Posted 06 July 2014 - 08:14 PM

MacIsaac made a one line post whose meaning I'm sure is the same as sundstrom's and mine and whose meaning you have finally sussed out in your reply to me -  "You could say "we got 20 goals better because Cory will start full time this year" - that is fair."  That's all Jason was trying to say.  

 

I also made no contradiction.  When I talk about a #1 goalie, I'm not talking about one guy getting 45 games and the other one gets 37.  I am talking about that Schneider starts, without question, all non back to back games (or some back to backs and rests against some weaker opponents).  A guy who gets those games almost regardless of how poorly he is doing.  With Brodeur on the team, Schneider would never be in that position.

 

To your first point, that's not how I took Jason's post and that shouldn't be such a crime. If anything a vague post leaves room for inference. I wasn't being provocative. 

 

You did contradict yourself though. You say Marty left on his own accord because he wants to playing time but you also said that if he was back here he might end up fighting for the starting job. 


I didn't think my point was that difficult to understand. Schneider had a down year in terms of sv% so a rebound wouldn't surprise me either. I fully expect him to play 65 games this year at .925. NJ would have to be pretty bad not to make the playoffs at that ratio.

 

The point is we DID NOT get 15 goals better by just not signing Brodeur. We could sign Marty, and as long as Cory still starts 65-70 games, we would most likely allow the same or less team goals than with another below average back up.


Edited by Neb00rs, 06 July 2014 - 08:15 PM.

  • 0

gallery_47_36_882.png of No One
Proud to be King of the Kovalnuts (Est. June 2010 by MantaRay)


#136 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,725 posts

Posted 06 July 2014 - 08:40 PM

To your first point, that's not how I took Jason's post and that shouldn't be such a crime. If anything a vague post leaves room for inference. I wasn't being provocative.

 

It's been something that has been discussed to death on the forum.  How about try Occam's Razor next time, huh?  Was Jason saying that Kinkaid and/or Clemmensen are amazing, or was he saying that using Schneider more will result in fewer goals against?

 

 

You did contradict yourself though. You say Marty left on his own accord because he wants to playing time but you also said that if he was back here he might end up fighting for the starting job.

 

You are so fvcking thick.  

 

1:  Brodeur thinks he can still start in the NHL, this much is clear.  Now he's also said that he might be willing to become a backup for a Cup team, but almost all of his statements have included 25 games as a bare minimum.  That's more than a lot of backup goalies play.

 

2:  Brodeur may end up with 25 games here, which would include consecutive games not due to injury, which is more than most backup goalies play.  The Devils will not promise him games (and neither would any sane NHL franchise, which is probably why he is still waiting for a contract), but he could very easily end with them anyway.  Again, nine games.  Brodeur recognizes that the Devils have a starting goalie and that guy is Cory Schneider and that he is not going to usurp him long-term.  He's not going to get 35 games here again without an injury.

 

 

The point is we DID NOT get 15 goals better by just not signing Brodeur. We could sign Marty, and as long as Cory still starts 65-70 games, we would most likely allow the same or less team goals than with another below average back up.

 

Yes, we did.  If you think Brodeur plays 18 games this year if he's healthy, you're nuts - he would go mad with media frenzy after sitting for most of a month.  He's not signing up for that.  Nine games.  


Edited by Triumph, 06 July 2014 - 08:42 PM.

  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#137 Neb00rs

Neb00rs

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,399 posts

Posted 06 July 2014 - 09:17 PM

It's been something that has been discussed to death on the forum.  How about try Occam's Razor next time, huh?  Was Jason saying that Kinkaid and/or Clemmensen are amazing, or was he saying that using Schneider more will result in fewer goals against?

 

I'm sorry I didn't infer what you did. To me, provided the quote JMI gave, the inference with the fewest assumptions is that the team got better by 15 goals no matter what as soon as we didn't sign Marty. Anyway, I prefer to use scientific strategy when analyzing a post. Thus, the total extant information provided by JMI + statistical information we have for the goalies on our roster = my inference. You are free to infer differently; as Ockham writes, "Circa quaesitum sunt diversae et adversae sententiae." But enough of that.

 

 

 

You are so fvcking thick. 

1:  Brodeur thinks he can still start in the NHL, this much is clear.  Now he's also said that he might be willing to become a backup for a Cup team, but almost all of his statements have included 25 games as a bare minimum.  That's more than a lot of backup goalies play.

 

Personal insult aside (you don't usually resort to that so I will ignore it), you're right, it does seem that Marty wants a lot of playing time and much more than he deserves - I don't see where you think I disagreed with that. And it is clear that he wasn't going to get that here. Or else he'd be here. 

 

 

 

2:  Brodeur may end up with 25 games here, which would include consecutive games not due to injury, which is more than most backup goalies play.  The Devils will not promise him games (and neither would any sane NHL franchise, which is probably why he is still waiting for a contract), but he could very easily end with them anyway.  Again, nine games.  Brodeur recognizes that the Devils have a starting goalie and that guy is Cory Schneider and that he is not going to usurp him long-term.  He's not going to get 35 games here again without an injury.

 

Again, is he leaving because he is not going to start games here, or should he have stayed because he would get games? Either ways, this is all a pretty big assumption by you, especially with all signs pointing to Lou and Pete moving 100% to Cory this year (or Cory probably walks).

 

 

Yes, we did.  If you think Brodeur plays 18 games this year if he's healthy, you're nuts - he would go mad with media frenzy after sitting for most of a month.  He's not signing up for that.  Nine games.

 

Right. It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. He wouldn't play 18 games and so he is not here. Period.


Edited by Neb00rs, 06 July 2014 - 09:17 PM.

  • 0

gallery_47_36_882.png of No One
Proud to be King of the Kovalnuts (Est. June 2010 by MantaRay)


#138 Chuck the Duck

Chuck the Duck

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,576 posts

Posted 06 July 2014 - 11:07 PM

Isn't this a thread about Mike Cammalleri?


You can title a thread whatever you want, but on this board it will always devolve into a debate about Marty being the worst goalie in the history of mankind or Lou having the game pass him by.
  • 1
Posted Image

#139 Neb00rs

Neb00rs

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,399 posts

Posted 07 July 2014 - 12:11 AM

You can title a thread whatever you want, but on this board it will always devolve into a debate about Marty being the worst goalie in the history of mankind or Lou having the game pass him by.

 

Truth. +1


Edited by Neb00rs, 07 July 2014 - 12:12 AM.

  • 0

gallery_47_36_882.png of No One
Proud to be King of the Kovalnuts (Est. June 2010 by MantaRay)





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users