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#21 dmann422

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 12:33 PM

I can't really ever compare the Mets and Devils.

you're absolutely right there is no comparison, but the result of player transactions in recent memory- niedermeyer, rafalski, gionta, parise, kovalchuk- didn't instill a lot of confidence in fans like coffee cake that Schneider would re-up.

The similarity with the mets is that every player transaction in recent memory has gone pretty bad- bay, Castillo, Bonilla, Perez, matsui, etc. the difference is the mets bring in players who then stink while the devils routinely lose their best players.

Edited by dmann422, 29 July 2014 - 12:37 PM.

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#22 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 12:55 PM

you're absolutely right there is no comparison, but the result of player transactions in recent memory- niedermeyer, rafalski, gionta, parise, kovalchuk- didn't instill a lot of confidence in fans like coffee cake that Schneider would re-up.

The similarity with the mets is that every player transaction in recent memory has gone pretty bad- bay, Castillo, Bonilla, Perez, matsui, etc. the difference is the mets bring in players who then stink while the devils routinely lose their best players.

 

But the "they got away" list you presented is exactly what I'm talking about.  A lot of fans weren't even that sorry to see Gio go at the time.

 

How about all of the guys Lou re-signed and kept...Elias, Brodeur (who for his part made his re-signings pretty painless), Kovy (who I think many assumed would be gone as a UFA just because), Stevens, Langenbrunner (to a very cost-effective contract), Zajac, Henrique, Schneider...that's a pretty nice list too (and incomplete), but that rarely gets as much mention as the ones who left.  And as we've seen, he's been willing to dip into the UFA market (even if the results have been mixed).

 

I can think of plenty of Mets transactions that worked too (Mike Piazza, for one)...not like they've ALL gone bad (and the hatred of the Wilpons is not just about player transactions).   


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[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
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Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#23 skeeter

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:18 PM

Don't forget the power outage during the second intermission that delayed the 3rd period about 15 minutes and it was Stevens first game scratched due to his concussion, both on fake Dano night.
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#24 MadDog2020

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:24 PM

you're absolutely right there is no comparison, but the result of player transactions in recent memory- niedermeyer, rafalski, gionta, parise, kovalchuk- didn't instill a lot of confidence in fans like coffee cake that Schneider would re-up.

The similarity with the mets is that every player transaction in recent memory has gone pretty bad- bay, Castillo, Bonilla, Perez, matsui, etc. the difference is the mets bring in players who then stink while the devils routinely lose their best players.

Speaking of Bonilla, I think he just got his annual check from the Mets this month. Lmfao.
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#25 MadDog2020

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:28 PM

Don't forget the power outage during the second intermission that delayed the 3rd period about 15 minutes and it was Stevens first game scratched due to his concussion, both on fake Dano night.

Fake Dano Night was a disaster. Stevens had the 'flu', they lost, Dano's mic cut out during his speech... At least we got a bobble-head lol. I still have mine.
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#26 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:45 PM

Fake Dano Night was a disaster. Stevens had the 'flu', they lost, Dano's mic cut out during his speech... At least we got a bobble-head lol. I still have mine.

 

I think they played Tampa Bay that night...the Devils took an early 1-0 lead, but I remember it going downhill after that.  I think they lost 4-1. But it was a weird night all-around...I think Daneyko himself was perplexed by the whole thing.   


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#27 MadDog2020

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 05:08 PM

I think they played Tampa Bay that night...the Devils took an early 1-0 lead, but I remember it going downhill after that. I think they lost 4-1. But it was a weird night all-around...I think Daneyko himself was perplexed by the whole thing.

You're right, they played Tampa; I forget what the score was though. I really didn't understand the point of the first Dano night if they weren't retiring his number. They should've just had his number retirement ceremony and that's it. The Stevens 'flu' thing is what ruined the night for me more than anything in retrospect though. We didn't know it at the time, but we had seen Scott Stevens play his last game in the NHL.
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#28 SterioDesign

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 05:12 PM

CC, it all kind of goes back to the same thing...there will always be a contingent of Devils' fans that thinks Lou never gets it done in these spots, and that contingent often not only ignores the many signings that Lou HAS gotten done (both pre-emptive and during UFA), but also glorifies the players that left (like Gio, Gomez, etc.) and leaves out the circumstances as to why they weren't traded or brought back.  They also pick random big signings around the NHL and take the grass-is-much-greener-over-there approach.   

 

Basically, there were people who assumed that Lou wouldn't get it done here, for no other reason than the idea that "Lou just loses guys, he always loses guys, blah blah blah...", when that is so untrue and so unfair.  Not saying Lou is perfect, no GM ever can be, and that he never make mistakes, because even good GMs make them, sometimes several of them, and I don't always agree with everything he does...but when it comes to retaining some key players (like Schneider), Lou is better at that than people give him credit for. 

 

you're missing the point totally here as you tend to exaggerate what people with different opinion than you says. Completely.

 

Some people doesnt like Lou's way of handling free agents. Saying "he's playing with fire" is different than saying "he's gonna fail". But yeah again, you always exaggerate.

 

Lou has been there a GM for like an ETERNITY. He might have signed guys a year before their contract expired and not after the season weeks before free agency.... less than 10 times. I can barely remember 5... IN ALL THAT SPAN. So let's forget results and all for a second... how the hell is it unfair to be a little worried that he MIGHT wait few weeks before free agency and that the player MIGHT want to see the interest around the league at that point cause the closer players gets to free agency even if they love their team, the more they start to think about the possibities, its a fact, it's been said by free agents over and over and by Zach himself too.

 

So again, why is it unfair to be a little worried that Lou does something he did for for like 97% of his tenure as a GM? like really. 

 

*** His career track record is useless to bring in discussion here cause situations are a lot different and players are not as loyal as they were either these days. Money talks a LOT and we're not a top destination like we we're before either, really not as attractive as we once was.

 

The "results" are really out of his hands at that point and he's putting his back against the wall hoping for the best. I'll never agree with that kind of business decision.


Edited by SterioDesign, 29 July 2014 - 05:15 PM.

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#29 MadDog2020

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 05:15 PM

you're missing the point totally here as you tend to exaggerate what people with different opinion than you says. Completely.

Some people doesnt like Lou's way of handling free agents. Saying "he's playing with fire" is different than saying "he's gonna fail". But yeah again, you always exaggerate.

Lou has been there a GM for like an ETERNITY. He might have signed guys a year before their contract expired and not after the season weeks before free agency.... less than 10 times. I can barely remember 5... IN ALL THAT SPAN. So let's forget results and all for a second... how the hell is it unfair to be a little worried that he MIGHT wait few weeks before free agency and that the player MIGHT want to see the interest around the league at that point cause the closer players gets to free agency even if they love their team, the more they start to think about the possibities, its a fact, it's been said by free agents over and over and by Zach himself too.

So again, why is it unfair to be a little worried that Lou does something he did for for like 97% of his tenure as a GM? like really.

*** His career track record is useless to bring in discussion here cause situations are a lot different and players are not as loyal as they were either these days. Money talks a LOT and we're not a top destination like we we're before either, really not as attractive as we once was.

The "results" are really out of his hands at that point and he's putting his back against the wall hoping for the best. I'll never agree with that kind of business decision.

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#30 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 06:18 PM

SD, I brought up a scenario where MAF could be the Devils' long-term goalie solution in 2015 in beyond.  Brought it up more than once.  So I wasn't exactly trying to hide the fact that I too was "a little worried" until Cory signed on the dotted line.  I was talking about people who shared CC's assumption that Lou would never get it done, just because they mistakenly believe that Lou somehow always screws these things up.

 

About the exaggeration thing...that's ridiculous, but kind of par for the course for you.  So far two people on here have accused me of "exaggerating"...you and MB, which pretty much says all that needs to be said about that one.


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 30 July 2014 - 05:45 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#31 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 06:32 PM

you're missing the point totally here as you tend to exaggerate what people with different opinion than you says. Completely.

 

Some people doesnt like Lou's way of handling free agents. Saying "he's playing with fire" is different than saying "he's gonna fail". But yeah again, you always exaggerate.

 

Lou has been there a GM for like an ETERNITY. He might have signed guys a year before their contract expired and not after the season weeks before free agency.... less than 10 times. I can barely remember 5... IN ALL THAT SPAN. So let's forget results and all for a second... how the hell is it unfair to be a little worried that he MIGHT wait few weeks before free agency and that the player MIGHT want to see the interest around the league at that point cause the closer players gets to free agency even if they love their team, the more they start to think about the possibities, its a fact, it's been said by free agents over and over and by Zach himself too.

 

So again, why is it unfair to be a little worried that Lou does something he did for for like 97% of his tenure as a GM? like really. 

 

*** His career track record is useless to bring in discussion here cause situations are a lot different and players are not as loyal as they were either these days. Money talks a LOT and we're not a top destination like we we're before either, really not as attractive as we once was.

 

The "results" are really out of his hands at that point and he's putting his back against the wall hoping for the best. I'll never agree with that kind of business decision.

 

This record. It's broken. 

 

We know you miss Zach, but Zach HIMSELF said Lou didn't "wait till the last second." 


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#32 ATLL765

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:55 PM

lol @ let's forget results. That's the only way to gauge things. It's completely ridiculous to make a blanket statement that waiting is always bad. If we started signing everyone a year before their contracts run out, it'd be a disaster when we end up stuck with a bunch of guys who declined in the last year of their deals.

Like was mentioned before, no one was really upset when certain guys left like Gionta, but for some reason he's brought up as a guy LL failed to keep. I don't remember for sure, but I thought it was clear that MTL was offering money that the team just wasn't interested in matching.
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#33 mouse

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 10:10 PM

you're missing the point totally here as you tend to exaggerate what people with different opinion than you says. Completely.
 
Some people doesnt like Lou's way of handling free agents. Saying "he's playing with fire" is different than saying "he's gonna fail". But yeah again, you always exaggerate.
 
Lou has been there a GM for like an ETERNITY. He might have signed guys a year before their contract expired and not after the season weeks before free agency.... less than 10 times. I can barely remember 5... IN ALL THAT SPAN. So let's forget results and all for a second... how the hell is it unfair to be a little worried that he MIGHT wait few weeks before free agency and that the player MIGHT want to see the interest around the league at that point cause the closer players gets to free agency even if they love their team, the more they start to think about the possibities, its a fact, it's been said by free agents over and over and by Zach himself too.
 
So again, why is it unfair to be a little worried that Lou does something he did for for like 97% of his tenure as a GM? like really. 
 
*** His career track record is useless to bring in discussion here cause situations are a lot different and players are not as loyal as they were either these days. Money talks a LOT and we're not a top destination like we we're before either, really not as attractive as we once was.
 
The "results" are really out of his hands at that point and he's putting his back against the wall hoping for the best. I'll never agree with that kind of business decision.


And let's not ignore that zachs contract is lousy. At the time, with a bad Kovy contract on the books and a broke owner, we couldn't take a second. Even with a rich owner, it would be stupid to sign another guy to a stupidly long contract. It sucks to lose our guys. Sometimes it's Lou's fault, and the situation could have been avoided, but more often than not, another team offers someone stupid money, and Lou rightfully refuses to compete for him.
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#34 SterioDesign

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 08:17 AM

* facepalm * fvck guys, you must have just skipped everything i said and replied on stuff i said months ago. unreal. Like 3-4 of you guys answered with something i havent said at all.

 


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#35 SterioDesign

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 08:33 AM

lol @ let's forget results. That's the only way to gauge things. It's completely ridiculous to make a blanket statement that waiting is always bad. If we started signing everyone a year before their contracts run out, it'd be a disaster when we end up stuck with a bunch of guys who declined in the last year of their deals.

Like was mentioned before, no one was really upset when certain guys left like Gionta, but for some reason he's brought up as a guy LL failed to keep. I don't remember for sure, but I thought it was clear that MTL was offering money that the team just wasn't interested in matching.

 

let's not lol @ let's forget results. When you gauge/compare things based in 2 different "scenarios" you can't compare results directly, it's unfair and pretty common sense. Everything is not in black and white. 

 

All i stated is that we ALL know how Lou deals with UFAs, some agree with it, some doesn't.

 

Just pointing out it's a bit ridiculous when people were saying they were worried Lou might wait last minute with Cory (which was totally fair since thats what he did 97% of his career) then someone throw a "yeah keep ignoring that he signed Zajac a year before!" like the person is crazy to think that Lou might actually wait last minute, using a very very rare and isolated signing to make a case.

 

So call me crazy but yes, i do think you can't compare results from when we had a super solid squad guaranteed to be contenders years after year with no salary cap and all that sh!t and the situation the team is in right now. We're really not as attractive as we were, to get guys we have to overpay or get guys who have something to prove or want lots of ice time they wouldnt get somewhere else.

 

 


Edited by SterioDesign, 30 July 2014 - 08:36 AM.

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#36 Satans Hockey

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:26 AM

A lot of fans weren't even that sorry to see Gio go at the time.


I was excited that he left. I was sick of seeing him do the same thing every game, his favorite move was a shot straight into the team logo and it use to drive me insane.
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#37 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:46 AM

I was excited that he left. I was sick of seeing him do the same thing every game, his favorite move was a shot straight into the team logo and it use to drive me insane.

 

Yeah, I used to call that shot the Logoseeker.  I wasn't sorry to see him go...I know overpayment is the norm in UFA, but when I saw what he got from the Canadiens I was fine with Lou not matching or exceeding it. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#38 DevsMan84

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:49 AM

I still can't believe he scored 48 goals in a season with us once.  He never got even close to that again.

 

Wasn't upset at all to see him go.  I think he got $5M per from Montreal and back in 2009 with the cap being a good deal lower that was a ton.


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#39 Devils Pride 26

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 10:42 AM

Scoring 48 goals was the worst thing that happened to Gio. He was a real pain in the ass to play against, camping out in front, driving the net, etc. It wasn't until after that season that he would take pretty weak, clarkson esqe shots when gaining the zone
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#40 ATLL765

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 10:42 AM

I still can't believe he scored 48 goals in a season with us once.  He never got even close to that again.

 

Wasn't upset at all to see him go.  I think he got $5M per from Montreal and back in 2009 with the cap being a good deal lower that was a ton.

Yeah, I recall the feeling was that it was a good move to not match that offer. I feel like that was an overwhelming consensus amongst the fans too.


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