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Andy Greene Signed +5 years @ $5M Per Season


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#121 Daniel

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 10:12 AM

wait, amateur question coming:

 

is the cap supposed to go up every year? or is it just once every several years?

 

The cap for each year is based on league revenues.  The assumption is that there will be healthy revenue growth for the remainder of the CBA, and that the cap should go up every year until then. 


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#122 devilsrule33

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 10:18 AM

If $5 million for Greene when the cap might be $85 million is going to stand in the way of signing Gelinas, Larsson and Merrill, it means that the intervening five years will have been very successful.  Or, you're getting into the realm of Blackhawks' problems, which I'll take any day of the week.  At worst, it'll be like Salvador's deal at the end, in that it's not really his salary that is getting in the way of doing something you would otherwise want to do, but that you feel compelled to play someone that's overpaid and past his prime over someone that might be better.

 

I'm also not clear how you can be so sure that the Devils will be spending a lot on forwards at that point, or what you even meant by that.  At the fifth year of Greene's deal, only Zajac is under contract.  Unless what you're getting at is that Lou will have had to shell out a lot of money for Henrique, and maybe some of the forwards that you would consider prospects right now (Matteau, Quenneville, Boucher).  But again, if Andy Greene's contract is what stands in the way of retaining those players, or even just makes it a little difficult, it means that the team will be very, very good at that point.

 

How are the Devils going to get forwards? Once Elias and Jagr retire, the Devils have no top line offensive talent. They will constantly have to acquire forwards by UFA like they have with Clowe and Cammelleri. Very hard to get good forwards in free agency without paying a sh!t ton. 

 

Matteau, Queneville and Boucher has to be the worst group of forward prospects that any team in the NHL has. The Devils will be paying a lot for offense for years to come.


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#123 Triumph

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 10:29 AM

How are the Devils going to get forwards? Once Elias and Jagr retire, the Devils have no top line offensive talent. They will constantly have to acquire forwards by UFA like they have with Clowe and Cammelleri. Very hard to get good forwards in free agency without paying a sh!t ton. 

 

Matteau, Queneville and Boucher has to be the worst group of forward prospects that any team in the NHL has. The Devils will be paying a lot for offense for years to come.

 

Basically this.  While I don't think that's the worst forward prospect group anyone has (I think Pittsburgh is worse off the top of my head), the issue is also that the Devils have 0 forwards who will start on next year's team who will be on ELCs, and their best forwards are quite old.  While I think one of Larsson, Gelinas, Merrill, or Severson will be gone to get NJ a decent young-ish forward in the coming years, that still leaves another large hole.  And that means free agents, and that means large, long deals that end in tears.

 

The Devils are paying $45 million for their forward corps which is absolutely nuts given that their forwards aren't above NHL average.  I'd be surprised if there's a team paying more.


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#124 Jerzey Devil

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 10:38 AM

Not to derail the discussion but what happens if/when we get a couple of injuries on defense? We know it's only a matter of time before Salvador gets hurt but what happens if another one or two go down? I guess at this point we're looking at Helgesen or Scarlett? Does anyone think Lou will try to sign one more defender just in case? 


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#125 SMantzas

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 10:42 AM

Not to derail the discussion but what happens if/when we get a couple of injuries on defense? We know it's only a matter of time before Salvador gets hurt but what happens if another one or two go down? I guess at this point we're looking at Helgesen or Scarlett? Does anyone think Lou will try to sign one more defender just in case? 

Harrold is pretty capable so him getting a few games isn't the end of the world. I'd bet Severson is the first in line to get called up, though.


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#126 Jerzey Devil

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 10:47 AM

Harrold is pretty capable so him getting a few games isn't the end of the world. I'd bet Severson is the first in line to get called up, though.

 

Yeah Harrold is definitely our #7 guy and I guess it depends on who gets injured as to who they call up. Do you really see Severson getting ice time this season? I would have thought he'd get at least a year in Albany but I guess if he's that good why not? 


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#127 Daniel

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 10:56 AM

How are the Devils going to get forwards? Once Elias and Jagr retire, the Devils have no top line offensive talent. They will constantly have to acquire forwards by UFA like they have with Clowe and Cammelleri. Very hard to get good forwards in free agency without paying a sh!t ton. 

 

Matteau, Queneville and Boucher has to be the worst group of forward prospects that any team in the NHL has. The Devils will be paying a lot for offense for years to come.

 

There are only so many forwards that are available in free agency in any given year, and we're never really in the conversation for any of the really high priced ones.  The fact that there are more slots to fill won't really change the way Lou has always approached it.   Whatever the case, in six years, the $5 million that Greene will be getting paid, which might be a little bit above what an average player gets, is not going to make a difference on who the forwards ultimately are. 


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#128 Jerzey Devil

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 11:22 AM

There are only so many forwards that are available in free agency in any given year, and we're never really in the conversation for any of the really high priced ones.  The fact that there are more slots to fill won't really change the way Lou has always approached it.   Whatever the case, in six years, the $5 million that Greene will be getting paid, which might be a little bit above what an average player gets, is not going to make a difference on who the forwards ultimately are. 

 

I don't know I think Cammy was a pretty big land. Plus if you believe him we were in on Zach before he chose to go home. I won't say Kovy because I think we were the only ones offering him 100 million. Zidlicky and Jagr weren't too bad either.

 

For a couple of years there it felt like no one wanted to play for us but I think that was just a dark period in our time. Zach, Kovy, and Clarkson all left within a year or two. 


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#129 Daniel

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 11:34 AM

I don't know I think Cammy was a pretty big land. Plus if you believe him we were in on Zach before he chose to go home. I won't say Kovy because I think we were the only ones offering him 100 million. Zidlicky and Jagr weren't too bad either.

 

For a couple of years there it felt like no one wanted to play for us but I think that was just a dark period in our time. Zach, Kovy, and Clarkson all left within a year or two. 

 

It's not an issue of no one wanting to play here.  And Kovy is an outlier that very well may have been all of Vanderbeek's doing.  Other than that, Lou's approach to free agency is to target certain players that fill needs, and not just going after the biggest fish that's out there for it's own sake.

 

Otherwise, to clarify what I was saying earlier, while no one knows what will happen in the next five years, it does look like we'll be very thin at forward and that there will be a need to overpay in free agency for the Clowes, Cammalleris and Ryders of the world.  It's just that Greene's contract at that point isn't going to impact how good or bad the forwards will be by then.  True, Merrill, Gelinas and Larsson might be getting huge pay days at that point.  If that's the case, and you don't have the cap space to sign all three of them, it means you have three extremely good defensemen that are in the prime of their careers. 


Edited by Daniel, 31 July 2014 - 11:35 AM.

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#130 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 11:37 AM

I don't know I think Cammy was a pretty big land. Plus if you believe him we were in on Zach before he chose to go home. I won't say Kovy because I think we were the only ones offering him 100 million. Zidlicky and Jagr weren't too bad either.

 

For a couple of years there it felt like no one wanted to play for us but I think that was just a dark period in our time. Zach, Kovy, and Clarkson all left within a year or two. 

 

Additionally, Rolston was considered a big win when we signed him. He was coming off 3 straight 30 goal seasons and supposedly had 14 offers. Ended up being terrible, but at the time he was a big signing. Ryder was also one of the better FA's available last summer. Again, not looking at actual results of those signings.


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#131 RizzMB30

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 12:29 PM

Lou made me laugh in this interview about the Greene signing.  A guy asked about the lengths of Greene and Schneider contracts and then brought up Kovalchuck and Lou said, "Hey look, I just ate lunch and I had a great taste in the meal I had."  Lou is such a comic.  He pretty much ignored the question.  :koolaid: :koolaid: :koolaid:

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#132 Triumph

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 12:47 PM

It's not an issue of no one wanting to play here.  And Kovy is an outlier that very well may have been all of Vanderbeek's doing.  Other than that, Lou's approach to free agency is to target certain players that fill needs, and not just going after the biggest fish that's out there for it's own sake.

 

Otherwise, to clarify what I was saying earlier, while no one knows what will happen in the next five years, it does look like we'll be very thin at forward and that there will be a need to overpay in free agency for the Clowes, Cammalleris and Ryders of the world.  It's just that Greene's contract at that point isn't going to impact how good or bad the forwards will be by then.  True, Merrill, Gelinas and Larsson might be getting huge pay days at that point.  If that's the case, and you don't have the cap space to sign all three of them, it means you have three extremely good defensemen that are in the prime of their careers. 

 

The Devils aren't in the conversation for the biggest player because for years they already had good players.  They had Parise, Elias, Gomez, Gionta, etc.  The goal was to surround those players with decent depth.  Then they got Kovalchuk.  Soon it's going to be Henrique, Zajac, an aging Cammalleri, maybe Boucher, and a lot of question marks.  The Devils won't just be able to patch holes with mid-range free agents - they will need to be involved for the best players, because the best players aren't walking in otherwise.

 

Again, they're spending $45M on forwards and that's with Jagr being a giant bargain what with him being the best one and being paid less than Zajac.  When Jagr goes, how much do you think they'll have to spend on the guy that replaces him?  How about the person who replaces Elias?  I'd say $13M per season is a good estimate for that.  What Merrill, Gelinas, and Larsson turn into is sort of immaterial here - Larsson will be paid a lot of money on his next contract unless he really tanks this year, and Gelinas figures to be paid a lot since he'll score some points.  If Merrill, Gelinas, and Larsson aren't any good then the team is screwed regardless.


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#133 Daniel

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:01 PM

The Devils aren't in the conversation for the biggest player because for years they already had good players.  They had Parise, Elias, Gomez, Gionta, etc.  The goal was to surround those players with decent depth.  Then they got Kovalchuk.  Soon it's going to be Henrique, Zajac, an aging Cammalleri, maybe Boucher, and a lot of question marks.  The Devils won't just be able to patch holes with mid-range free agents - they will need to be involved for the best players, because the best players aren't walking in otherwise.

 

Again, they're spending $45M on forwards and that's with Jagr being a giant bargain what with him being the best one and being paid less than Zajac.  When Jagr goes, how much do you think they'll have to spend on the guy that replaces him?  How about the person who replaces Elias?  I'd say $13M per season is a good estimate for that.  What Merrill, Gelinas, and Larsson turn into is sort of immaterial here - Larsson will be paid a lot of money on his next contract unless he really tanks this year, and Gelinas figures to be paid a lot since he'll score some points.  If Merrill, Gelinas, and Larsson aren't any good then the team is screwed regardless.

 

This may all be true, but whatever you're paying Greene in five or six years from now won't really impact who the forwards end up being.

 

We're also talking about what will be six years from now.  There are three forwards on the team that were in the organization six years ago, and, so far as I can tell, no one else is someone that was acquired for someone else that was in the organization at that time.  It's kind of a fun exercise to think about I suppose, but it just doesn't have much to do with Andy Greene.


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#134 Onddeck

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:03 PM

haha, nhl.com is such a troll:

Front page:

"Devils GM Lamoriello not surprised Brodeur available"

 

haha, not really the right thread, but its a quick laugh.

 

 

http://www.nhl.com/i...vid=DL|NHL|home


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#135 Triumph

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:21 PM

This may all be true, but whatever you're paying Greene in five or six years from now won't really impact who the forwards end up being.

 

We're also talking about what will be six years from now.  There are three forwards on the team that were in the organization six years ago, and, so far as I can tell, no one else is someone that was acquired for someone else that was in the organization at that time.  It's kind of a fun exercise to think about I suppose, but it just doesn't have much to do with Andy Greene.

 

I don't really agree, but we'll leave it at that.  The defense will not be cheap forever, and the only way this team turns back into a consistent playoff team is with cheap defense.


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#136 SMantzas

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:33 PM

I don't really agree, but we'll leave it at that.  The defense will not be cheap forever, and the only way this team turns back into a consistent playoff team is with cheap defense.

By the time the defense won't be cheap, Elias, Zubrus, Ruutu and hopefully Clowe will be gone. Then you have guys like Santini and Severson who will be inexpensive.  Having 2 dmen on ELCs is probably uncommon and that can very easily be the case in 4 years when Larsson, Gelinas and Merrill will be getting paid


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#137 roomtemp

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:47 PM

Rather Greene at 5 then Brooks Orpik at 5 plus


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#138 vadvlfan

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 02:18 PM

Rather Greene at 5 then Brooks Orpik at 5 plus

green much more versatile than Orpik. Brooks hasn't had PP time in his entire career. he's a shutdown guy. then again, so is Andy.


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#139 sokar

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 03:10 PM

I am happy Greene is going to be here for 5 more years, but I was hoping Lou was going to say he made a trade of some kind.  IMO Devils need to make one more move in this off season


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#140 point

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:00 PM

All you guys should spend as much time worrying about your retirement funding as you spend on the Devils in 5-6 years! In all probability Lou will not still be around, although I would not want odds that he might even be behind the bench for some games in 2019-20. The new owners will have had the opportunity to establish themselves by then. Who knows what the Devils will look like? Anyway, Lou has ALWAYS built the team from the goal-line out. If offense = Stanley Cup the TB Lightining would have more than one Cup in their trophy bin.

 

MY point is, take one season at a time, and enjoy it.


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