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Expansion to Vegas Apparently "Done Deal"


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#41 '7'

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 10:37 AM

the Isles is still going to be a dicey situation. A lot of those seats are either ridiculously obstructed, slightly obstructed, or situated in an area where if you will always be bothered by heads in front of you...people moving up or down. For instance if you're in the upper deck than a lot of action to the near boards will be a pain to see. If the Isles move their and don't win, it will get ugly.


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#42 '7'

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 10:49 AM

It's a shame that arena where Phoenix use to play wasn't built for hockey from the start. I think in a proper arena downtown Phoenix they wouldn't have had as many issues but none of that matters anymore.

It's going to be interesting to see how the Islanders do in Brooklyn from an arena perspective because Phoenix originally had all the same arena issues as well. Clearly the Islanders have a bigger fan base but obstructed seats are still going to be a huge issue

 

The Jets were mindlessly hotshotted into Phoenix though. That franchise should've never left Winnipeg, but the NHL was just too enamored with the growing southern/western populations and thought more people = more hockey fans. Once this initial hype and newness wore off the Coyotes were dead. They've been a dead franchise for a decade or more. 

 

Vegas will be the same. Once the newness wears off they will be treated like a Vegas stage show that's run its course and is no longer popular. Only those shows are moved down the bill or cancelled...what is going to be done with this team?


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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
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#43 Zubie#8

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 10:53 AM

I can dig 32 teams but 34 is just too many. Vegas and Seattle would be perfect so the conferences balance out and the diffusion of NHL caliber players won't be as bad if it was a 4 team expansion. If Quebec Kansas City and god forbid Hamilton wants a team it should be through relocation of Arizona and possibly Florida.

Edited by Zubie#8, 27 August 2014 - 04:04 PM.

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#44 Triumph

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 10:56 AM

The Jets were mindlessly hotshotted into Phoenix though. That franchise should've never left Winnipeg, but the NHL was just too enamored with the growing southern/western populations and thought more people = more hockey fans. Once this initial hype and newness wore off the Coyotes were dead. They've been a dead franchise for a decade or more. 

 

Vegas will be the same. Once the newness wears off they will be treated like a Vegas stage show that's run its course and is no longer popular. Only those shows are moved down the bill or cancelled...what is going to be done with this team?

 

That franchise never should've left Winnipeg?  Winnipeg was dead on its feet - they sold Teemu Selanne 3 years after he came to town.  Who was going to buy the team in Winnipeg?  It's a small city that isn't growing, and with the exchange rate where it was, no one wanted to buy the team and keep it in Winnipeg.  Now they got minor league hockey and a new arena and supported those things well and with the exchange rate where it is they're back to being an NHL city, but they are still not spending a ton of money.  


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#45 '7'

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 11:12 AM

That franchise never should've left Winnipeg?  Winnipeg was dead on its feet - they sold Teemu Selanne 3 years after he came to town.  Who was going to buy the team in Winnipeg?  It's a small city that isn't growing, and with the exchange rate where it was, no one wanted to buy the team and keep it in Winnipeg.  Now they got minor league hockey and a new arena and supported those things well and with the exchange rate where it is they're back to being an NHL city, but they are still not spending a ton of money.  

 

Well why didn't the NHL carry Winnipeg on its back like they have been doing for Phoenix for seemingly forever. They crawl through a river of sh!t for Phoenix but a bump in the road in Winnipeg and they're packing up the trucks. The NHL didn't do a good enough job actually taking the time to seek out an owner, or a group of owners. Winnipeg was never given a fair shake. But now it's thriving and phoenix is a joke.

 

Selanne wasn't just a financial decision, but a hockey decision. He suffered a knee injury and wasn't the same goal scorer in 1996 as he was in 1992. 

 

Winnipegs population has grown since 1996.


Edited by '7', 27 August 2014 - 11:15 AM.

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#46 Satans Hockey

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 11:21 AM

Well why didn't the NHL carry Winnipeg on its back like they have been doing for Phoenix for seemingly forever. They crawl through a river of sh!t for Phoenix but a bump in the road in Winnipeg and they're packing up the trucks. The NHL didn't do a good enough job actually taking the time to seek out an owner, or a group of owners. Winnipeg was never given a fair shake. But now it's thriving and phoenix is a joke.

Selanne wasn't just a financial decision, but a hockey decision. He suffered a knee injury and wasn't the same goal scorer in 1996 as he was in 1992.

Winnipegs population has grown since 1996.


I think the NHL trying to make it work in Phoenix is only because that new arena is only 10 years old and it looks bad on the league if they didn't at least try to make it work. Now if they end up moving the team at least they can say they tried everything possible.

I know they have been drawing well but Winnipeg is a horrid city, I'm actually still really surprised the league allowed a team to go back there. I would have put them almost anywhere else.
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#47 devlman

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 11:29 AM

Vegas would be awful in terms of attendance, fan support, media. The Las Vegas market isnt even large to begin with either. The growth rate it has seen is now slowing down. Then there are all the risky intangibles that come with a pro team in Vegas. Makes no sense when there are more options for expansion/relocation.


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#48 Daniel

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 11:48 AM

Well why didn't the NHL carry Winnipeg on its back like they have been doing for Phoenix for seemingly forever. They crawl through a river of sh!t for Phoenix but a bump in the road in Winnipeg and they're packing up the trucks. The NHL didn't do a good enough job actually taking the time to seek out an owner, or a group of owners. Winnipeg was never given a fair shake. But now it's thriving and phoenix is a joke.

 

Selanne wasn't just a financial decision, but a hockey decision. He suffered a knee injury and wasn't the same goal scorer in 1996 as he was in 1992. 

 

Winnipegs population has grown since 1996.

 

It's hard to remember it now that virtually every Canadian team, save perhaps the Senators, seems to be able print money.  At that time, the Canadian economy was in the dumps.  It doesn't take the evil doings of American capitalists or the commissioner to get two teams to leave for greener pastures, and one to a place that had already lost a hockey team.  Hell, even the OIlers were in the red when the team was winning, to the point that the amount of debt that Pocklington had to take out to keep the team afloat made Vanderbeek's debt look like a 30 year fixed rate mortgage on a $200,000 house. 

 

Bettman's insistence on keeping the Coyotes in Arizona is a bit puzzling.  He didn't really put up that much of a fight with Atlanta.  It might have had something to do with the fact that the buyer for Phoenix was someone who tried to strong arm the league into putting a team where he wanted to and that the rest of the owners hated. 


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#49 devilsfan26

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 12:07 PM

I too am skeptical of this working out, if it is in fact a done deal.  I agree with many here that Seattle and Quebec City would make more sense, maybe even Kansas City.  However, I don't understand why so many people think 30 or even 32 is a reasonable amount of teams, but 34 is too many.  Seems kind of arbitrary.  There probably used to be people who though 20 was too many.


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#50 devilsfan26

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 12:11 PM

Looks like it's not quite a "done deal."

http://www.si.com/nh...ion-team-report


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#51 '7'

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 12:21 PM

It's hard to remember it now that virtually every Canadian team, save perhaps the Senators, seems to be able print money.  At that time, the Canadian economy was in the dumps.  It doesn't take the evil doings of American capitalists or the commissioner to get two teams to leave for greener pastures, and one to a place that had already lost a hockey team.  Hell, even the OIlers were in the red when the team was winning, to the point that the amount of debt that Pocklington had to take out to keep the team afloat made Vanderbeek's debt look like a 30 year fixed rate mortgage on a $200,000 house. 

 

Bettman's insistence on keeping the Coyotes in Arizona is a bit puzzling.  He didn't really put up that much of a fight with Atlanta.  It might have had something to do with the fact that the buyer for Phoenix was someone who tried to strong arm the league into putting a team where he wanted to and that the rest of the owners hated. 

 

The Atlanta pipe burst unexpectedly while the NHL was trying to do damage control in phoenix. I don't think they saw it coming. The league didn't have the time or resources to save the Thrashers. Frankly they just couldn't be bothered since it was a 2nd chance franchise anyway that should've never been given that chance. That offseason the NHL could've legitimately lost two southern franchises in the same week. All their chips were already in for Phoenix so Atlanta left for greener pastures with no resistance.

 

i do remember the Oilers crises and how they were supposedly close to moving to Houston, still I think their case is more Pocklington than the Canadian dollar. Montreal and Toronto never had any issues, neither did Vancouver. Calgary maybe...but that's a big canadien city so they were never moving. Ottawa was still very new at the time.

 

If given a redo on 1992-1993 expansion...I think the NHL probably puts a team in Hamilton instead of Ottawa. They have had some trouble there but it hasn't been an abject failure. however Hamilton is in the golden horseshoe. It would have been a sure thing.


Edited by '7', 27 August 2014 - 12:31 PM.

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#52 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 12:31 PM

Let's see what corny name they pick

 

My money is on:

Las Vegas Gamblers

Las Vegas High Rollers

Las Vegas Deuces

Las Vegas Aces

Las Vegas Chips*

 

*I really hope its this one

 

I think they alreayd have (or had) a minor league team named the Las Vegas Wranglers.  That would be my bet for a team name.


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#53 RunninWithTheDevil

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 02:01 PM

what about the Las Vegas Bats?

 

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#54 Derek21

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 02:14 PM

Las Vegas was building a new arena last year. I'm not surprised they are in the mix for expansion. Seattle is logical. I always felt they'd have to add 2 teams to balance out the realigned conferences. My guess was they'd expand to 32. Not 34. It doesn't add up. I can go along with bringing hockey back to Quebec. Toronto is large enough to have 2 teams. I just wonder what happens if the Leafs continue to struggle. Their fans will go nuts. Haha. I would rather see Florida relocate along with another team than see the league go to 34. But that'll never happen. I'd imagine the players aren't opposed to it because it'll create more jobs.

 

Adding more teams makes the current divisions and playoff format unrealistic. They may as well go back to 6 divisions or expand the playoffs. Give the teams with best records byes. Have real wildcard series. Best of 3 or 5. The only hindrance is the schedule. You can't have postseasons extending into July. I have always been an advocate of starting seasons earlier. Either that or drop down from 82 to 70. I know these are radical suggestions which probably won't happen. But if they go to 34, is 16 realistic for playoffs?


Edited by Derek21, 27 August 2014 - 02:15 PM.

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#55 dmann422

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 02:50 PM

But if they go to 34, is 16 realistic for playoffs?

yes, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Even non hockey fans agree that the nhl playoffs is one of the most exciting sporting events. Diluting it down in any way can only hurt it. It's silly enough as it is that the league plays 1230 games a year to only eliminate half the teams.
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#56 BlueSkirt

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:19 PM

When I want reliable news about the NHL, the last sources I would ever go to are "Sports Illustrated" and "The Sporting News".

 

If this story had any legs then Ontarians would have the inside story...like a security guard at Copps Coliseum


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#57 Daniel

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:32 PM

When I want reliable news about the NHL, the last sources I would ever go to are "Sports Illustrated" and "The Sporting News".

 

If this story had any legs then Ontarians would have the inside story...like a security guard at Copps Coliseum

 

Err. you might not care for SI's hockey coverage in general, but they're not like hockeyyinsiderr in that they don't make up sources. 


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#58 Devils731

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:34 PM

Err. you might not care for SI's hockey coverage in general, but they're not like hockeyyinsiderr in that they don't make up sources.


In this case, isn't it SI just reporting on someone else's report?
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#59 MadDog2020

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:43 PM

what about the Las Vegas Bats?

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#60 Daniel

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:56 PM

In this case, isn't it SI just reporting on someone else's report?

 

That's true.  Although it still seems like something that SI wouldn't regurgatate willy nilly.  So it's not something you can dismiss.


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