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#1 LOULAM1

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Posted 06 August 2005 - 09:47 PM

http://www.voanews.c...08-04-voa76.cfm


Close to three hundred thousand people died when the bombs were dropped. One million American servicemen were spared death due to the surrender of the Japanese Empire and no invasion.

There are scholars that say Japan would have surrendered anyway and it was not necessary to drop even the first of the two bombs.

Truman understood American sentiment at the time and saved American lives. You now have people stating that Truman was a criminal and the poor Japanese did not have a chance to die honorably when the bombs were dropped.

What of those who died on December 7th, 1941 and is it not amazing how history becomes twisted due to leftist academia. Imagine if the Japanese had the bomb in 1945?
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#2 David Puddy

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Posted 06 August 2005 - 11:56 PM

It's not just "scholars", it's from Japanese documents from the time. The bombs basically gave Japan a way to surrender without completely losing face.


US atomic bombs were ‘God’s gift’

WASHINGTON: The US atomic bombings and the Soviet Union’s entry into World War II that led to Japan’s surrender were “God’s gifts,” the Japanese navy minister at that time was quoted saying in documents released Friday by the National Security Archive.

Yonai told an adviser to the Japanese ruling elite that the two events provided a good excuse to surrender at a time when local hostility to Emperor Hirohito and his government was increasing rapidly.

The conversation was among the first published complete translations from the Japanese of accounts of key high level meetings and discussions in Tokyo leading to the end of the war, the Security Archive said.

They were released on the 60th anniversary Friday of the bombing of Hiroshima as part of a comprehensive on-line collection, including declassified US government documents, on the first use of the atomic bomb and the end of the war in the Pacific.

“It may be inappropriate to put it in this way, but the atomic bombs and the Soviet entry into the war are, in a sense, God’s gifts,” Yonai said nearly a week after an American B-29 dropped the world’s first atomic bomb on Hiroshima on August 6, 1945.

Three days later another bomb was dropped on Nagasaki. The twin bombings killed some 210,000 people. “Now we can end the war without making it clear that we have to end the war because of the domestic situation,” said Yonai, who was among the six-member inner cabinet led by Prime Minister Kantaro Suzuki. “I have long been advocating the conclusion (of the war), not because I am afraid of the enemy’s attacks or because of the atomic bombs or the Soviet participation in the war,” he said. “The most important reason is my concern over the domestic situation.” afp
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#3 David Puddy

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 12:01 AM

http://www.guardian....1543754,00.html

The bomb didn't win it

Dominick Jenkins
Saturday August 6, 2005
The Guardian

The idea that it was militarily necessary to drop the atomic bomb in 1945 is now discredited. The first exhaustive examination of Japanese, Soviet and US archives, by Tsuyoshi Hasegawa, confirms the argument that Truman went ahead in order to get Japan to end the war quickly before the Soviet Union came into the Pacific war and demanded a say in Asia.

The use of atomic weapons against Hiroshima and Nagasaki did not provide the US with the free hand it had wanted and has proved disastrous for the world.

It did not bring about surrender. With 62 Japanese cities destroyed by firebombs and napalm, Japan was not overwhelmed by the destruction of one more. The army minister, General Korechika Anami, told the supreme war council that he would fight on. What actually brought about surrender was the combination of the Soviet Union's entry into the war on August 8 and the US decision to let Japan retain the emperor.

The use of the bomb led to an atomic arms race. Truman had been warned that the Soviet Union would interpret the use of the bomb as a threat but went ahead. After Stalin heard about the bomb from Truman at Potsdam, he said the US would try to use its atomic monopoly to force the Soviet Union to accept its plans for Europe, adding: "Well, that's not going to happen." The USSR exploded the atomic bomb in 1949 and the hydrogen bomb in 1953, far more quickly than Truman had believed possible.

Truman also helped to start the cold war. With a working atomic bomb, he believed that the US no longer needed Soviet help in Europe to make sure there was no re-emergence of a German threat, and went ahead with rearming the former Nazi state. All of which took America and Russia a further step from wartime cooperation to the cold war.

Max Hastings, on these pages last week, gave the impression that most of Truman's contemporaries thought he did the right thing. Eisenhower urged Henry Stimson, the secretary of state, not to use the bomb on the basis of his belief "that Japan was already defeated and that the dropping of the atomic bomb was completely unnecessary". Other commanders made similar statements. The men in command and on the ground did not share Hastings's argument that the "inexorable logic of war" meant the US had to drop the bomb.

What can we learn from this history? It is not one of damning Truman. What this history shows is that George Bush's dream of dominating the world through massive investments in new nuclear weapons repeats a failed project. It is no alternative to the hard work of developing political solutions to problems such as Iran and North Korea, or to building up disarmament treaties.

The end of the cold war has given us a second chance. Preparations at Aldermaston to build a nuclear weapon to replace Trident should stop, and the government should support Jack Straw's initiative to save the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and restart nuclear disarmament.

· Dominick Jenkins is Greenpeace UK's disarmament campaigner and author of The Final Frontier: America, Science and Terror
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#4 LOULAM1

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 08:58 AM

http://www.voanews.c...08-04-voa76.cfm


Close to three hundred thousand people died when the bombs were dropped.  One million American servicemen were spared death due to the surrender of the Japanese Empire and no invasion.

There are scholars that say Japan would have surrendered anyway and it was not necessary to drop even the first of the two bombs.

Truman understood American sentiment at the time and saved American lives.  You now have people stating that Truman was a criminal and the poor Japanese did not have a chance to die honorably when the bombs were dropped. 

What of those who died on December 7th, 1941 and is it not amazing how history becomes twisted due to leftist academia.  Imagine if the Japanese had the bomb in 1945?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



"It's not just "scholars", it's from Japanese documents from the time. The bombs basically gave Japan a way to surrender without completely losing face.


US atomic bombs were ‘God’s gift’

WASHINGTON: The US atomic bombings and the Soviet Union’s entry into World War II that led to Japan’s surrender were “God’s gifts,” the Japanese navy minister at that time was quoted saying in documents released Friday by the National Security Archive."

Very interesting points made. There is also a great read in the Post today... Post Opinion "Truman's Dilemma". My point is that you will never hear the mainstream press refer to "the Bombs" dropped as "God's Gifts". You will only see the History Channel showing a poor woman crying about the awful atrocity committed by Truman and the United States.

You will never hear of the atrocities committed for 6 weeks in China that bordered on the most outrageous of all mankind... Nanking. Why do we not hear more of this on the anniversery from the likes of the History Channel (looks like I have a serious gripe against the History Channel)?

Thanks for the great info Dave, and if you get the chance read Richard B Frank in this Sunday's Post.
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#5 Triumph

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 11:05 AM

http://www.voanews.c...08-04-voa76.cfm


Close to three hundred thousand people died when the bombs were dropped.  One million American servicemen were spared death due to the surrender of the Japanese Empire and no invasion.

There are scholars that say Japan would have surrendered anyway and it was not necessary to drop even the first of the two bombs.

Truman understood American sentiment at the time and saved American lives.  You now have people stating that Truman was a criminal and the poor Japanese did not have a chance to die honorably when the bombs were dropped. 

What of those who died on December 7th, 1941 and is it not amazing how history becomes twisted due to leftist academia.  Imagine if the Japanese had the bomb in 1945?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



"It's not just "scholars", it's from Japanese documents from the time. The bombs basically gave Japan a way to surrender without completely losing face.


US atomic bombs were ‘God’s gift’

WASHINGTON: The US atomic bombings and the Soviet Union’s entry into World War II that led to Japan’s surrender were “God’s gifts,” the Japanese navy minister at that time was quoted saying in documents released Friday by the National Security Archive."

Very interesting points made. There is also a great read in the Post today... Post Opinion "Truman's Dilemma". My point is that you will never hear the mainstream press refer to "the Bombs" dropped as "God's Gifts". You will only see the History Channel showing a poor woman crying about the awful atrocity committed by Truman and the United States.

You will never hear of the atrocities committed for 6 weeks in China that bordered on the most outrageous of all mankind... Nanking. Why do we not hear more of this on the anniversery from the likes of the History Channel (looks like I have a serious gripe against the History Channel)?

Thanks for the great info Dave, and if you get the chance read Richard B Frank in this Sunday's Post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Such typical reactionary thinking. Why do we not hear more about Nanking? We weren't involved! It was between Japan and China! The Rape of Nanking is one of the greatest atrocities of the Century of Atrocities.

What of those who died on December 7th? There were 2,000 of them that died in several blasts, as opposed to 60,000 who died from one bomb. Why don't we hear more about the firebombing of Dresden?

It sounds like you treat your country like it's a sports team you root for. That's very dangerous.
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#6 Voros19

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 12:14 PM

Very interesting points made. There is also a great read in the Post today... Post Opinion "Truman's Dilemma". My point is that you will never hear the mainstream press refer to "the Bombs" dropped as "God's Gifts". You will only see the History Channel showing a poor woman crying about the awful atrocity committed by Truman and the United States.


Coincidently, the history channel had a show at 1:00 AM last night on this very issue. :blink:

EDIT: nevermind, I just realized it was the anniversary... :rolleyes:

Edited by Voros19, 07 August 2005 - 12:19 PM.

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#7 Jimmy Leeds

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 12:41 PM

What of those who died on December 7th?  There were 2,000 of them that died in several blasts, as opposed to 60,000 who died from one bomb.  Why don't we hear more about the firebombing of Dresden?

It sounds like you treat your country like it's a sports team you root for.  That's very dangerous.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The difference here is that Pearl Harbor was a sneak attack againt a country not yet an enemy.....propelling us into war. The Hiroshamo & Nagasaki's ended the war, saving hundreds of thousands of our soldiers from death.

An I DO root for the US like I do my sports teams. Makes sense to me.
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#8 David Puddy

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 12:42 PM

Very interesting points made.  There is also a great read in the Post today... Post Opinion "Truman's Dilemma".  My point is that you will never hear the mainstream press refer to "the Bombs" dropped as "God's Gifts".  You will only see the History Channel showing a poor woman crying about the awful atrocity committed by Truman and the United States. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Whoa, I don't think you get why he called them "God's Gifts". It was because it gave Japan a way out of the war without revealing the real reason they had to surrender... which was because of the domestic situation, not because of the awesome military might of the USA.
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#9 LOULAM1

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 07:24 PM

Very interesting points made.  There is also a great read in the Post today... Post Opinion "Truman's Dilemma".  My point is that you will never hear the mainstream press refer to "the Bombs" dropped as "God's Gifts".  You will only see the History Channel showing a poor woman crying about the awful atrocity committed by Truman and the United States. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Whoa, I don't think you get why he called them "God's Gifts". It was because it gave Japan a way out of the war without revealing the real reason they had to surrender... which was because of the domestic situation, not because of the awesome military might of the USA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Ok, understand the domestic situation with Japan at the time but my real point is with the media. Do you agree with me that history is being re-written in the hopes that Truman will end up looking like Hitler? Here is a prime example from the San Fran Chronical (new I could find what I was looking for in this lefty paper).

http://journals.aol....og/entries/3261
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