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#41 '7'

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 03:18 PM

If enough people bitch about, something will get done about it.

so let's keep bitching!
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#42 LZZo

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 03:24 PM

That's all a matter of wording... I've seen dozens of penalty shots where the player coming in dropped the puck back a few inches to keep the puck from getting to far ahead of him. It's part of stick handling.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I agree, the spirit of the rule is so plays don't start doing circles with the puck. It would be something to see a late season shootout win overturned on a technicality like this though. I wonder if the league will amend the rule or make a statement as to exactly how it should be interpreted.
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#43 Derek21

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 04:17 PM

The shootout now takes away the excitedness that i get for a penalty shot... i used to love seeing a penalty shot and the other day when we got one.. i was still excited we had the opportunity but watching it didnt do anything special for me..sicne i see it every week.

4 on 4 is more exciting in my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I disagree. A penalty shot is still the most exciting play in hockey and it's earned during a game before the artificial aspect of a shootout.

You can't have 4-on-4 forever. I'd have recommended 2:00 of 3-on-3 before the shootout.
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#44 Derek21

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 04:20 PM

That's all a matter of wording... I've seen dozens of penalty shots where the player coming in dropped the puck back a few inches to keep the puck from getting to far ahead of him. It's part of stick handling.

As for the shoot-out, don't people get tired of this same debate every 2 or 3 days?!?! If you don't like it, don't watch it. I don't like it, I don't watch it, and I don't feel the need to bitch about it every few days.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Agree 100 percent.
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#45 annabelle

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 05:10 PM

I actually like the shootout for reg season..but not to decide playoff games. If it was Devils/Flyers or something it would have been exciting..but the two teams that were playing just do not interset me in the least..booo
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#46 LOTCB

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 07:50 PM

Yeah, I REALLY miss regular season ties....that rush that I used to get hearing the buzzer sound and seeing little emotion from the players, and then walking out to the concourse of an arena hearing the chatter of people, not much emotion...trying to remember where they parked....oh that rush was AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEAH TIES!!!!!!!!!!! HIGH FIVE BABY!!!! :doh1:

Think back to all the memorable ties....oh man the chills I get thinking about some classic 2-2 Sabres/Hartford ties....wow I get pumped up.....who will remember that Malik goal, even though it was a long shootout?? Forget that, bring back all the memories of ties past!! :boogie:

(Sarcasm Off)

Edited by LOTCB, 27 November 2005 - 07:53 PM.

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#47 thefiestygoat

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 08:11 PM

I must say that I agree with ya 100% LOTCB. I was against shoot outs but they are so much better than ties.
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#48 Triumph

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 08:17 PM

Yeah, I REALLY miss regular season ties....that rush that I used to get hearing the buzzer sound and seeing little emotion from the players,  and then walking out to the concourse of an arena hearing the chatter of people, not much emotion...trying to remember where they parked....oh that rush was AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!  YEAH TIES!!!!!!!!!!!  HIGH FIVE BABY!!!!  :doh1:

Think back to all the memorable ties....oh man the chills I get thinking about some classic 2-2 Sabres/Hartford ties....wow I get pumped up.....who will remember that Malik goal, even though it was a long shootout??  Forget that, bring back all the memories of ties past!!  :boogie:

(Sarcasm Off)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


This argument has not been refuted by anyone on this board. Playing sudden death is completely unfeasible - the players don't want it, the coaches don't want it, and the fans don't want it. I'd rather have ties back than sudden death.

Anyway, I'm sure shootouts will be gone soon. Fans only give a standing O when they're coming and make more noise than they've made all game - NHL execs hate seeing fans excited. All you marketing geniuses on the message boards are sure to come up with better solutions - I suggest most you begin working on the flux capacitor immediately, because your fix seems to involve a time machine.
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#49 '7'

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 08:19 PM

Yeah, I REALLY miss regular season ties....that rush that I used to get hearing the buzzer sound and seeing little emotion from the players,  and then walking out to the concourse of an arena hearing the chatter of people, not much emotion...trying to remember where they parked....oh that rush was AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!  YEAH TIES!!!!!!!!!!!  HIGH FIVE BABY!!!!  :doh1:

Think back to all the memorable ties....oh man the chills I get thinking about some classic 2-2 Sabres/Hartford ties....wow I get pumped up.....who will remember that Malik goal, even though it was a long shootout??  Forget that, bring back all the memories of ties past!!  :boogie:

(Sarcasm Off)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


so, I guess there haven't been any exciting 5-5 ties with end to end action for 65 minutes in the history of the NHL (sarcasm off)

I'd take a 2-2 tie anyday over some phony 3-2 "victory" that degenerated into some worthless pond hockey shootout relay that has nothing to do with the game itself. Do you actually think you saw a team win a game last night?
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#50 NJD Jester

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 08:23 PM

I actually like the shootout for reg season..but not to decide playoff games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Right...so just to help decide who makes the playoffs, but not actually in the playoffs.

Makes sense...or not.

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#51 '7'

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 08:28 PM

This argument has not been refuted by anyone on this board. Playing sudden death is completely unfeasible - the players don't want it, the coaches don't want it, and the fans don't want it. I'd rather have ties back than sudden death.

Anyway, I'm sure shootouts will be gone soon. Fans only give a standing O when they're coming and make more noise than they've made all game - NHL execs hate seeing fans excited. All you marketing geniuses on the message boards are sure to come up with better solutions - I suggest most you begin working on the flux capacitor immediately, because your fix seems to involve a time machine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


This standing O will put any "exciting" shootout to shame

http://www.thatvideo...m/view/557.html

so how about we settle ties this way? look at the crowd go crazy.

Since when does it matter how excited the fans get, what they're cheering for has nothing to do with the game itself. You think the NBA fans wouldn't cheer a free throw competition like crazy, can you imagine a walk off home run derby shot in baseball, the fans would go nuts. Everybody knows this, so why don't the other sports basterdize there games for some cheap applause? They must be idiots or something. The NHL execs are brilliant.

It''s because the sport is sacred remember? The right thing for the NHL to do is to end the game in a tie.

To maintain the integrity of the game you need to have uniformity in the regular season and playoffs. Otherwise it loses all credibility, you can not hand out points based on an unnearned shootout derby. That disgraces the game.

Edited by '7', 27 November 2005 - 08:31 PM.

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#52 Triumph

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 08:28 PM

Right...so just to help decide who makes the playoffs, but not actually in the playoffs.

Makes sense...or not.

<JESTER>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


There are no tie games in the playoffs.

All of you yammering for sudden death in the regular season - wouldn't that destroy the excitement caused by sudden death in the playoffs? I think it would make it less special, for sure - sudden death in hockey is the best part about it, and I'd hate to see it cheapened by being used in Washington-Anaheim games in mid-December.

Either way, it's irrelevant - the shootout is here to stay. And as I've said throughout the whole process, I don't like the shootout that much - but it clearly beats the alternatives. It's also interesting to see what kind of moves guys have developed.
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#53 Triumph

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 08:32 PM

I might just end my involvement in shootout topics right here - any more mentions of home run derby contests and free throw shooting competitions have NO BASIS in this discussion. They are not the only way to score in their respective sports - the only way to score in hockey is to get a puck by the goaltender.

Furthermore, as Blueskirt has pointed out on numerous occasions, those sports have no issues with a deteriorating playing surface - as a result, those games can often be settled in little time with little injury risk.

Edited by Triumph, 27 November 2005 - 08:33 PM.

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#54 LZZo

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 08:33 PM

The shootout debates are more entertaining than the shootouts themselves.
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#55 '7'

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 08:38 PM

I might just end my involvement in shootout topics right here - any more mentions of home run derby contests and free throw shooting competitions have NO BASIS in this discussion.  They are not the only way to score in their respective sports - the only way to score in hockey is to get a puck by the goaltender.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


you're dancing around the issue here triumph. You have to score by playing as a team on the ice, and going through a defense. A penalty shots happen for a reason. In the shootout, they happen for no reason.

The NHL now awards points for not even playing the damn game in OT. Think about how silly it is. HOCKEY STOPS, they start playing a completely different game and award points on that game.

It's like if you and I played chess. We come to a stalemate, then start playing checkers. You win the checkers game and automatically get credit for winning the chess game as well. Does that make sense? Because that's exactly what the NHL is doing.
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#56 Triumph

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 08:42 PM

you're dancing around the issue here triumph. You have to score by playing as a team on the ice, and going through a defense. A penalty shots happen for a reason. In the shootout, they happen for no reason.

The NHL now awards points for not even playing the damn game in OT. Think about how silly it is. HOCKEY STOPS, they start playing a completely different game and award points on that game.

It's like if you and I played chess. We come to a stalemate, then start playing checkers. You win the checkers game and automatically get credit for winning the chess game as well. Does that make sense? Because that's exactly what the NHL is doing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


It's so silly that Olympic medals have been won and lost on them.

You're winning the logical argument but failing to provide alternatives. You can shout about how silly it is, but sellout crowds standing in anticipation isn't very silly to NHL executives and owners.

Provide an alternative. It cannot be a tie. It cannot be sudden death overtime. Have fun coming up with one.
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#57 Z-Man

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 08:45 PM

To maintain the integrity of the game you need to have uniformity in the regular season and playoffs. Otherwise it loses all credibility, you can not hand out points based on an unnearned shootout derby. That disgraces the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You're argument is VERY flawed, 7.

So we should have ties in playoff games, too? Devils win the series in 12 games, 4 wins, 3 losses, 5 ties.

The NHL NEVER had uniformity in the regular season and the playoffs. Look in the record books and find all those 3 and 4 overtime regular season games.
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#58 hattrick

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 08:52 PM

If enough people bitch about, something will get done about it.

so let's keep bitching!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well...enough people bitched for the shoot out and now we have it for at least one season.

I love it. :boogie:
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#59 '7'

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 08:52 PM

It's so silly that Olympic medals have been won and lost on them.

You're winning the logical argument but failing to provide alternatives. You can shout about how silly it is, but sellout crowds standing in anticipation isn't very silly to NHL executives and owners.

Provide an alternative. It cannot be a tie. It cannot be sudden death overtime. Have fun coming up with one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



true, and canada is still bitching about being robbed in 98, the czechs should not be recognized as champions and it's something the olympic federation must change, a gold medal won on a shootout will never be completely recognized as a true victory.

and besides, the NHL should not base its rules on what's done in international hockey.

You can't paint me in a corner here, it can end in a tie because we did have ties for 80 years and everybody was fine with it. When did ties become unacceptable? When the game itself became boring? Now if the 60 minutes are more entertaining, you don't need an artificial 5 minutes or so of fun that has nothing to do with hockey. I'd get rid of the 4 on 4 as well, you should never skate 4 on 4 unless two skaters are in the box.

The ONLY solution is a tie, make it a 7 or 10 minute OT, keep the point for getting to OT. Whatever you want, but keep the game the same in OT as in the previous 60 minutes. Otherwise we can do something crazy like have apple bobbing or shootout relays.....and the NHL chose to do something crazy and stupid.

You have to maintain the integrity of hockey, not alter the game for cheap applause. yes fans cheer shootouts, but it doesn't make them right. it's unfair.

Edited by '7', 27 November 2005 - 08:58 PM.

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#60 LOTCB

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Posted 27 November 2005 - 09:00 PM

so, I guess there haven't been any exciting 5-5 ties with end to end action for 65 minutes in the history of the NHL (sarcasm off)

I'd take a 2-2 tie anyday over some phony 3-2 "victory" that degenerated into some worthless pond hockey shootout relay that has nothing to do with the game itself. Do you actually think you saw a team win a game last night?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Well lets name all these memorable ties...and again, in your world there wont be any exciting shootouts? :noclue:

What if the Devils from this point on go 7-1 in shootouts and make the playoffs and then win the Cup because of the shootout rule? Will you be whistling a different tune at that point? Hmmm...

Bottom line: The good teams will get in the playoffs. The good teams wont. Period. If for example the Sabres fall 1 point short because they lost a shootout the last week of the season, oh well. You can trace back over several other games throughout a season to point out why a team misses the playoffs etc.

By no means am I saying i LOVE the shootout rule. There are drawbacks to any system. For example, on Thanksgiving Eve, the Sabres won a shootout at the Island over the Isles. And when the shootout started, I thought to myself, "damn, the Sabres have completely outplayed the Isles for the last 10 minutes of the 3rd and the 5 minute OT, if the Isles win the shootout its almost a shame"...in situations like that, I definately see your point.

There is no perfect system. But what the NHL has generated here with the shootout is good debates, and some PR for the league. Like it or not, for the regular season, I believe it helps the NHL. Dont love it, but it helps.
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