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French and German papers run Danish Islam cartoons ... Muslims pissed.


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#21 HelenaHandbasket

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 09:13 AM

BTW it is lame to complain about the cartoon, wasn't the cartoon of ONE person? How does that paint the whole religion with a brush?

It was the Prophet Mohammed, which is a little bigger than some random dude.
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#22 Swede

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 09:43 AM

hmm, a couple of years ago an artist in sweden had her paintings out on display. She called them ecce ++++ and portraied jesus as a homosexual... there was a LOT of complaints on that one an people are still talking about it
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#23 Triumph

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 09:53 AM

It's okay to say Ecce ++++ Swede, that was the title of a Nietschze work. Oops, it edits that out. Ha ha.

As for the Prophet Mohammed, you're not even allowed to see him. All iconography is wrong to the Muslim faith. Now if the Muslim world is going to enter into the modern economy and the tradition of liberal democracy, this sort of rigor in religion will have to fall away - but it hasn't yet. Christianity has melted away and allowed itself to be compatible with democratic ideals.

The Muslim faith has many ties to the Jewish faith - you will not see mockery of the Jewish faith or major characters in the Jewish faith like Abraham, since he is just as important to the Muslims. The example set forth in this thread is therefore a false analogue.

Edited by Triumph, 02 February 2006 - 09:54 AM.

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#24 RowdyFan42

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 10:11 AM

Perhaps if "the Muslim world" was a little more vocal in denouncing terrorists who supposedly act in the name of Islam, the rest of the world wouldn't be so quick to assume that Muslims as a whole condone such behavior.
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#25 Triumph

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 10:27 AM

Perhaps if "the Muslim world" was a little more vocal in denouncing terrorists who supposedly act in the name of Islam, the rest of the world wouldn't be so quick to assume that Muslims as a whole condone such behavior.


The Muslims aren't on display - they're people. By saying such a thing, you've already assumed a great deal - 1. that Muslims in general care what you think about them (they shouldn't) and 2. that Muslims should care so much about the perception of them that major leaders should come out and denounce terrorism every time.

If they denounce terrorism, they'd be called liars - if they don't, they're complicit. Well, as long as they're guilty either way.

I think brylin18 put it very well in this thread. By and large, the majority of people want the same things.
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#26 Swede

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 12:26 PM

It's okay to say Ecce ++++ Swede, that was the title of a Nietschze work. Oops, it edits that out. Ha ha.



but it was based on her artwork on the theme, with classical religous works remade.
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#27 MaddDog

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 01:54 PM

:noclue:

Perhaps if "the Muslim world" was a little more vocal in denouncing terrorists who supposedly act in the name of Islam, the rest of the world wouldn't be so quick to assume that Muslims as a whole condone such behavior.


Rowdy, that's what I've been saying all along. There's a deafening silence from much of the Muslim world when innocent civilians get beheaded or murdered, yet a cartoon evokes this sort of outrage??


I did not say that I personally approved of the Muhammad cartoons. However, they were published in NON-MUSLIM countries and the laws permit it. Europe is comprised of Western DEMOCRACIES and they are NOT Islamic theocracies. So, I fail to see why they should adhere to Sharia law or the rules and social norms of Arab nations. No one is coercing the Muslims or Muslim immigrants to stay there if they don't like it; they are free to emigrate back to their native home lands or relocate to another country if they choose.

As for Muhammad depictions being a violation of Islam, I found this web site that claims Muhmmad HAS been depicted in Islamic artwork countless times. If this is the case, why are they so offended? Is it because "infidels" drew him?? :blink: Site is below:

Muhammad in art


I don't understand why some of you are so upset over this yet do NOT really address my point that anti-Jewish and anti-Western cartoons are a REGULAR occurrence in the Middle East and North Africa. Where on earth is the moral outrage from those Muslim countries when it comes to Jews being depicted as rats and bloodthirsty murderers?? :noclue:

Check these cartoons out in the link below and tell me they are NOT extremely anti-Semitic and anti-American:

Arab Cartoons

They were published in Palestinian papers along with newspapers in Jordan, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Egypt. Yeah, those are cartoons depicting bunnies hopping over rainbows, huh?? :lol: If Muslim citizens were truly against these cartoons, I'd imagine they'd bombard the papers with complaints and the cartoons would not be so abundant. The fact that they recurrently get published makes me wonder if many Muslims condone the content.

Frankly, I don't care if they want to boycott Danish goods. I do think it's getting out of control when countries CLOSE their friggin embassies over this, or when gunmen in Gaza burst into the EU office and threaten people's lives.. or tell all Danes and Swedes-Norwegians to leave Gaza or they will be KILLED. Such tolerance and what a completely irrational response that is out of proportion to the situation! :blink:

Someone should remind them that these European nations are NOT Muslim and therefore are NOT required to abide by Islamic laws. I recall reading how Muslims want the Danish government to bring criminal charges against this independently owned newspaper for the Muhammad cartoons. WHY should they?? It's not a criminal offense in DENMARK!! I don't see Muslim nations completely changing their laws to permit all the freedoms of Western culture in order to make Europeans and Americans happy, do you? I was under the impression that you can't even display a cross in Saudi Arabia and it is prohibited by law to bring a BIBLE (!!) into the country.

I never even felt that Muslims shouldn't be offended or upset by these cartoons. I just wonder where this outrage and anger is when it comes to slandering or slaughtering the "infidels" and 'Zionists". When the shoe is on the other foot, they don't like it so much. I also don't appreciate the Muslims that are attempting to IMPOSE their Islamic laws onto NON-Muslim countries. If that makes me "racist", Don, then so be it. Using that definition, Muslim nations seem more racist than Western cultures since they often force others to totally conform to Islamic law.



The Muslims aren't on display - they're people. By saying such a thing, you've already assumed a great deal - 1. that Muslims in general care what you think about them (they shouldn't) and 2. that Muslims should care so much about the perception of them that major leaders should come out and denounce terrorism every time.

If they denounce terrorism, they'd be called liars - if they don't, they're complicit. Well, as long as they're guilty either way.

I think brylin18 put it very well in this thread. By and large, the majority of people want the same things.



The problem is that the vast majority of Muslims around the world don't seem to say anything against terrorism, even if they privately disagree with it. Their silence is deafening. So the assumption is that they support terrorist activity, OR they don't and are afraid to say anything for fear of their head being chopped off. If they continue to remain silent, the rest of the (non-Muslim) world will get the impression that Muslims don't see anything wrong with terrorist scum. Look at how many people in the U.S. and other Western countries are bitching about Bush, Iraq war, Guatanamo, etc. and compare that to the number of Muslims protesting decapitations and homicide bombings.

Btw, Muslims SHOULD care about how other people perceive them. Islam is NOT perceived in a positive light in much of the world, and it's because sociopathic extremist murderers have hijacked their religion.

Edited by MaddDog, 02 February 2006 - 02:01 PM.

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#28 MaddDog

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 02:56 PM

the latest news... gunmen threatening to kidnap Westerners over friggin CARTOONS or Muslims chanting "DEATH TO (Western country)" or sending death threats? Nawwwww, no irrational hatred here. Where are the protests in those countries when the kidnapped foreigners get excecuted?


Rage at Drawings Spreads in Muslim World

Rage at Drawings Spreads in Muslim World By IBRAHIM BARZAK, Associated Press Writer

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Armed militants angered by a cartoon drawing of the Prophet Muhammad published in European newspapers surrounded EU offices in Gaza on Thursday and threatened to kidnap foreigners as outrage over the caricatures spread across the Islamic world.

More than 300 students demonstrated in Pakistan, chanting "Death to France!" and "Death to Denmark!" two of the countries where newspapers published the drawings. Other protests were held in Syria and Lebanon.

Officials in Afghanistan, Iran and Indonesia condemned the publication. In Paris, the daily France Soir fired its managing editor after it ran the caricatures Wednesday.

A Jordanian newspaper took the bold step of running some of the drawings, saying it wanted to show its readers how offensive the cartoons were but also urging the world's Muslims to "be reasonable." Hours later, the owners of the weekly, Shihan, said they had fired its editor and withdrawn the issue from sale, and the government threatened legal action.

Foreign journalists, diplomats and aid workers began leaving Gaza as gunmen there threatened to kidnap citizens of France, Norway, Denmark and Germany unless those governments apologize for the cartoon.

Gunmen in the West Bank city of Nablus entered four hotels to search for foreigners to abduct and warned their owners not to host guests from several European countries. Gunmen said they were also searching apartments in Nablus for Europeans.

Militants in Gaza said they would shut down media offices from France, Norway, Denmark and Germany, singling out the French news agency Agence France-Presse.

"Any citizens of these countries, who are present in Gaza, will put themselves in danger," a Fatah-affiliated gunman said outside the EU Commission's office in Gaza, flanked by two masked men holding rifles.

If the European governments don't apologize by Thursday evening, "any visitor of these countries will be targeted," he said.

The furor over the drawings, which first ran in the Danish paper Jyllands-Posten in September, cuts to the question of which is more sacred in the Western world freedom of expression or respect for religious beliefs. The cartoons include an image of Muhammad wearing a turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse.

Islamic law, based on clerics' interpretation of the Quran and the sayings of the prophet, absolutely forbids depictions, even positive ones, of the Prophet Muhammad in order to prevent idolatry.

The drawings have prompted boycotts of Danish goods, bomb threats and demonstrations against Danish facilities.

The Danish newspaper defended its decision to publish the caricatures, citing freedom of expression, but apologized to Muslims for causing offense.

France Soir and several other European papers reprinted the drawings in solidarity with the Danish daily. Jyllands-Posten also had put some of the drawings briefly on its Web site, and the images still can be found elsewhere on the Internet.

The Israeli newspaper Maariv published a tiny version of the Muhammad-bomb caricature Thursday, on page 16.

Foreign journalists were pulling out of Gaza on Thursday, and foreign media organizations were canceling plans to send more people in.

Norway suspended operations at its office in the West Bank town of Ram after receiving threats connected to publication of the cartoons by the Norwegian Christian newspaper Magazinet.

"There were threats from two Palestinian groups, the Popular Resistance Committees and the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, against Danish, French and Norwegian diplomats," Norwegian Foreign Ministry spokesman Rune Bjaastad said.

Jan Pirouz Poulsen, the Danish representative office's deputy head, said there were six Danes in Gaza and about 20 in the West Bank, and that all had been urged to leave.

Raif Holmboe, the head of Denmark's representative office in the West Bank town of Ramallah, said the office would be closed Friday and no decision has been made whether to reopen Monday. Holmboe said shots were fired at the Ramallah office earlier this week while the building was empty. No one was hurt.

Palestinian security officials said they would try to protect foreigners in Gaza, but police have largely been unable to do so in the past, with 19 foreigners kidnapped and released unharmed in recent months, mostly by Fatah gunmen.

Emma Udwin, a European Union spokeswoman in Brussels, said security measures have been taken in light of the threats.

Outgoing Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia condemned the caricatures, saying they "provoke all Muslims everywhere in the world." He asked gunmen not to attack foreigners, "but we warn that emotions may flare in this very sensitive issues."

Sami Abu Zuhri, a spokesman for the Islamic militant Hamas also demanded an apology from European countries. However, he said foreigners in Gaza must not be harmed.

Thursday's events began when a dozen gunmen with ties to Fatah approached the office of the EU Commission in Gaza. Three jumped on the outer wall and the rest took up positions at the entrance. The group demanded the apologies and urged Palestinians to boycott the products of Norway, Denmark, France and Germany.

A leaflet signed by a Fatah militia and the militant Islamic Jihad group said the EU office and churches in Gaza could come under attack and urged French citizens to leave Gaza. The gunmen left after about 45 minutes. Palestinian employees of the EU Commission had not come to work Thursday, and foreigners working at the office are based outside Gaza, and only visit from time to time.

In Multan, Pakistan, more than 300 Islamic students chanted "Death to Denmark!" and "Death to France!" and burned flags of both countries near an Islamic school.

Iraqi Islamic leaders called for demonstrations from Baghdad to the southern city of Basra following prayer services Friday.

Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai condemned the images, calling the publication an "insult ... to more than 1 billion Muslims."

Indonesian Foreign Ministry spokesman Yuri Thamrin said that while his country upholds free expression, "such freedom cannot be used as a pretext to insult a religion." The Indonesian newspaper Rakyat Merdeka put the Muhammad-bomb caricature on its Web site to illustrate its story about the uproar but covered his eyes with a red banner to avoid making the image "vulgar," a caption said.

Iran summoned Austrian Ambassador Stigel Bauer, representing the European Union, to protest the publication, the Islamic Republic News Agency reported. Bauer expressed "sorrow" and promised to convey Iran's protest to his government and other EU countries, IRNA said.

The Jordanian newspaper Shihan reprinted three of the caricatures to show readers "the extent of the Danish offense." Next to the drawings, the weekly said: "This is how the Danish newspaper portrayed Prophet Muhammad, may God's blessing and peace be upon him."

Later, its owner, the Arab Publishers Co., fired editor Jihad al-Momani, saying he had caused a "shock to the firm and those responsible for it," the official Petra news agency reported. It said the issue was withdrawn from the market and opened an investigation to determine if other staff were involved. A spokesman for the publisher confirmed the report.

Government spokesman Nasser Judeh said Shihan committed a "big mistake" by reprinting the drawings.

"The government strongly denounces this issues, which it considers extremely harmful, and demands an immediate apology from the newspaper," Judeh said. He said the state is reviewing "all options, especially legal action" against Shihan.

Al-Momani declined comment. Earlier, he had told The Associated Press he decided to run the cartoons to "display to the public the extent of the Danish offense and condemn it in the strongest terms."

"But their publication is not meant in any way to promote such blasphemy," al-Momani added.

An editorial signed by al-Momani and titled "Muslims of the world, be reasonable," noted that the Danish paper had apologized, "but for some reason, nobody in the Muslim world wants to hear the apology."

The director of media rights group Reporters Without Borders, Robert Menard, called for calm. "We need to figure out how to reconcile freedom of expression and respect of faith," he said.

Vebjoern Selbekk, editor of Norway's Magazinet, said he had received thousands of hate e-mails, including 20 death threats, since printing the drawings and was under police protection.
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#29 Triumph

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 10:44 PM

:noclue:
The problem is that the vast majority of Muslims around the world don't seem to say anything against terrorism, even if they privately disagree with it. Their silence is deafening. So the assumption is that they support terrorist activity, OR they don't and are afraid to say anything for fear of their head being chopped off. If they continue to remain silent, the rest of the (non-Muslim) world will get the impression that Muslims don't see anything wrong with terrorist scum. Look at how many people in the U.S. and other Western countries are bitching about Bush, Iraq war, Guatanamo, etc. and compare that to the number of Muslims protesting decapitations and homicide bombings.

Btw, Muslims SHOULD care about how other people perceive them. Islam is NOT perceived in a positive light in much of the world, and it's because sociopathic extremist murderers have hijacked their religion.


Gee, I wonder why they don't speak out against terrorism. Maybe they don't want to be beheaded too. You do know that the concept of free speech is a foreign one amongst these nations, correct?

I don't know why it is incumbent upon them to speak out against terrorism. We can see the same thing on the board - every time Leeds finds some crazy left-wing loon, he posts it on here and tells the liberals 'why don't you condemn this?' And when a person is between agreeing with the infidels who bomb his countrymen and the Muslims who bomb his countrymen, it's a difficult choice. We see the same thing when Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson begin speaking about some perceived racism - 'why don't you speak out about black on black crime or serious racial issues?'

Terrorism is not justified. Barbarism is not justified. They are, however, understandable. You cannot compare our society to theirs - you cannot say how many people protest torture and freedom here and how few Muslims protest terrorism there. Americans are used to thinking for themselves and not fearing for their lives - uneducated people are used to listening to orders and living in fear. Educated Muslims know what the right course is - unfortunately there are far too few of them.

Edited by Triumph, 02 February 2006 - 10:45 PM.

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#30 '7'

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 11:03 PM

I'm torn on this, one one hand the paper should've been more sensitive...but come on already, to respond with bomb threats, kidnap threats, the whole shebang over some cartoons? Just shut up and deal with it. They can't though.

I sense that this might be the first step in a possible movement, of Europe trying to fight back against Eurabia.

They're just not being integrated into the population, say what you will about weak Europe, but they will not stand for sabre rattling by these Muslim groups

Edited by '7', 02 February 2006 - 11:14 PM.

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#31 pattyelias

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 10:16 AM

http://www.tomgrossm...rabCartoons.htm

Just a sampling of some of the lovely cartoons to come out of the Middle East.
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#32 brylin18

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 06:18 PM

although i don't condone those cartoons, none of them involve religious figures. they are all purely political.
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#33 LOULAM1

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 09:40 PM

I think it's great, as Europe will finally realize what sick bastards they're up against! We're talking about some cartoons here people... F'in South Park! Yes, I do understand the fact that the Muslim world has been void of any news or entertainment for close to 100 years (the Ottomans had a blast) but that is no excuse!

Cartoons people! Cartoons!
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#34 Derek21

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 10:13 PM

Exactly LouLam. I can't understand why every one of these threads always turns into the same pissing match.
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#35 LOULAM1

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 10:39 PM

Exactly LouLam. I can't understand why every one of these threads always turns into the same pissing match.


Because the second you bring some reality into the situation:

http://michellemalki...ives/004440.htm

Libs cry!

THE COWARDLY AMERICAN MEDIA (VIDEO ADDED)
By Michelle Malkin February 02, 2006 08:03 PM
***scroll for updates***

Read this CNN report very carefully:

The international storm over cartoon drawings of the Prophet Mohammad published in European media gathered pace across the Islamic world Thursday with angry demonstrations and the shutting down of the EU office in Gaza City.
In Paris, the daily newspaper France Soir fired its managing editor after it republished the caricatures Wednesday, and in Pakistan protesters marched chanting "Death to Denmark" and "Death to France."

Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan was quoted as saying the cartoons -- one depicting the founder of Islam wearing a turban resembling a bomb --showed press freedom should have its limits.

Muslims consider it sacrilegious to produce a likeness of the Prophet Mohammad. CNN has chosen to not show the cartoons in respect for Islam.


Unbelievable. The news network reports on an international controversy, but refuses to show readers what the news is actually about and let them judge the cartoons for themselves.

Even more galling is CNN's newfound respect for religion.

Where was that deference when Ted Turner was calling Catholics "Jesus Freaks?"

Where was the sensitivity about offensive religious imagery when Jeanne Moos was mocking images of Jesus Christ or Jonathan Mann was reporting on the Virgin Mary covered in dung?

Why is it that American media, including CNN, have absolutely no qualms about splashing Kanye West-as-Christ all over the airwaves and Internet...
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#36 RowdyFan42

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 10:43 PM

Didja think, LL, that maybe CNN doesn't feel like making itself a target for terrorist bombings?
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#37 LOULAM1

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 10:48 PM

Didja think, LL, that maybe CNN doesn't feel like making itself a target for terrorist bombings?


Rowdy, I'm on a diet right now and those eggs look so damn good! Don't post! :D

Seriously, then CNN should not be in the business!
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#38 Zamode

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 11:35 PM

Christianity has melted away and allowed itself to be compatible with democratic ideals.


What? News to me.....







This turned into a disgusting thread.
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#39 '7'

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 01:57 AM

What? News to me.....
This turned into a disgusting thread.


I think he means Christianity has allowed itself to be manipulated at the whim of political parties. Conformed to fit our capitalistic lifestyles? :noclue:
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#40 LetsGoDevils

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 04:24 PM

I think he means Christianity has allowed itself to be manipulated at the whim of political parties. Conformed to fit our capitalistic lifestyles? :noclue:

How so?
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