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Spectors Trade Rumors 02/17/06


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#41 thefiestygoat

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 06:52 PM

And give up what exactly. They have the perfect team chemistry. I wouldn't mess with it too much with the exception of acquiring an extra defenseman.

Just trying to create conversation based on their reported interest.
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#42 Triumph

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 06:54 PM

Manta, you do realize that the coach of the year award is the sh!ttiest team award, right? It's awarded to the coach thought to get the most out of a mediocre squad. Therefore, having the 'Coach of the Year' is not an asset, but a detriment, because it proves that those teams were weak.

Let's look at the 99 Coyotes - a defense of Numminen, Lumme, Tverdovsky, Carney, Daigneault, Neckar. Some real winners there. You mention Shane Doan - he was young. You mention Rick Tocchet - he was old. The defense was soft and unremarkable, and the Coyotes tended to get players like Reichel and Janney for the 2nd line. Khabibulin was their goaltender but he was enigmatic - he could steal a game but he could definitely lose it as well. Oh, and which team is Bobby Francis the head coach of now, I forget.

Now let's look at the 2001 Blues. First of all, players brought in to help team scoring in the playoffs usually do not. For examples, you can look at Amonte with the Flyers, Gilmour and Mogilny with the Devils, and there are many others through the years.

The Blues defense was MacInnis, Pronger, Khavanov, Hill, Finley, Salvador, with Gusarov for the playoffs. MacInnis and Pronger - great defenders, both will be in the HOF. The rest of the guys are bad to worse - Salvador is being exposed as awful this year as his +/- continues to go down, Hill had a horrible season and ended up back in Carolina, and Finley and Gusarov are outright terrible.

Meanwhile at forward, they had Pierre Turgeon who is okay but not great, Scott Young who played way above his head all that season, Cory Stillman who was a healthy scratch in the Stanley Cup Finals in 04, Pavol Demitra who has 44 points in 63 playoff games, and 576 points in 603 NHL games, and some assorted other dreck.

The point is - these teams never had the kind of secondary scoring or strong defense to go very far in the playoffs. They relied on below-average defensemen and finesse scorers to have strong regular seasons, only to tank in the playoffs because the whole team other than a few guys was dreck. I believe it was 2000 I predicted the President's Trophy winning Blues to exit first round - those Blues squads were always full of holes both in net and on defense.

Keith Tkachuk would be perfect for the Devils - he would give them the second line scoring they desperately need. He would give them the power play presence they've needed all year. I don't think they would demand a top prospect - getting his contract off the books would save the Blues around 1.5 million, and the market for him will not be large, considering that most contending teams are up to the cap. I think Suglobov and a 2nd or Suglobov and a 1st could spring him.

Edited by Triumph, 17 February 2006 - 06:55 PM.

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#43 Lateralous

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 07:14 PM

No way St. Louis does that. They'd ask for a top prospect such as Zajac.



They may ask for a top prospect, but I doubt they get one for a guy that is a rental with baggage and a history of underperforming in the playoffs.

If it becomes a bidding war where the price becomes a Zajac type of player, we should pass.
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#44 Don

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 07:17 PM

I didn't realize we had a weak team in '94.
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#45 Triumph

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 07:19 PM

I didn't realize we had a weak team in '94.


Is it really necessary to do this? Fine - it's the weakest team or largest gain award. The Jack Adams is awarded to either the team that makes the biggest strides in one season, or wins the most games with what appears to be a subpar squad.
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#46 Don

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 07:22 PM

Is it really necessary to do this? Fine - it's the weakest team or largest gain award. The Jack Adams is awarded to either the team that makes the biggest strides in one season, or wins the most games with what appears to be a subpar squad.


Probably not. But that is more accurate. :) It also applies to the '99 Senators & Martin.
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#47 Voros19

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 08:14 PM

This might have been mentioned already, but Tkachuk has a $3.8 Million Option for next season. That is a massive bargain. If we can snag Tkachuk, and don't have to give up Parise, Zajac, Bergfors, or Tallackson, I wouldn't hesitate.

Edited by Voros19, 17 February 2006 - 08:16 PM.

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#48 Risky

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 09:45 PM

I'm intkachtrigued by the possibilities. He sure seems to have great chemistry with Gomez and Gionta.

The Good To Go line?

The American Legion?

The United Skates?

The U.S. of Aim?

The Red, White and Food?

The possiblities are endless!
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#49 sundstrom

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 10:44 PM

i'll throw my opinion in on this as well. as usual, i agree 100% with Triumph in that Tkachuk would be a good addition. He brings things that would help this team. I don't buy the clubhouse cancer thing as far as a rental goes. he's the new guy and there's enough presence here where he's not rocking the boat anytime soon.

now if you told me i had to give him an extension (even at a fair number) beyond next year's option, then I wouldn't take him AND a 1st rounder for Mcgillis. but if all i had to do was pick up next year's 3.8 and it didn't affect my ability to keep elias i would deal anyone not named bergfors, parise, or zajac as far as prospects and i'd give the 2nd rounder too.
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#50 jursylegnd

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 12:16 PM

Id' take Keith for a playoff run but thats it.
The guy who I would much rather see in a Devils uniform is Owen Nolan.
He would fit in nicely. The bigger issue is getting a talented big center in the draft. We need a center and a defenseman in the early rounds.

Edited by jursylegnd, 18 February 2006 - 12:16 PM.

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#51 MantaRay

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 12:21 PM

Tri,

You can apply this same argument:

"these teams never had the kind of secondary scoring or strong defense to go very far in the playoffs. They relied on below-average defensemen and finesse scorers to have strong regular seasons, only to tank in the playoffs because the whole team other than a few guys was dreck"

to rationalize why Anaheim, Carolina, Calgary and even Tampa should have been bounced in the first round of the playoffs, yet these teams managed to make it to the finals with alot less talent than those St. Louis teams.

The difference is leadership and character, which Tkachuk doesn't bring to the table.
He has never made these talented teams better nor elevated their standards.

On paper, Tkachuk is a very good player, but he lacks the intangibles that produces winning TEAMS.
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#52 NJDevs4978

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 12:26 PM

In what league were the Blues 'championship-caliber' the last few years? Not the NHL, not with the likes of Brent Johnson in net. They were never as good as Detroit, Colorado or Dallas in the last several years. The West was a bit stronger than the East over the last decade, we were the only Cup winner out of the East since '95 until Tampa in '04. They were a lot closer to being a championship team when they had Oates, Hull, CuJo etc, while Thachuk was in Phoenix.

Edited by Hasan4978, 18 February 2006 - 12:28 PM.

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#53 jursylegnd

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 12:30 PM

In what league were the Blues 'championship-caliber' the last few years? Not the NHL, not with the likes of Brent Johnson in net. They were never as good as Detroit, Colorado or Dallas in the last several years. The West was a bit stronger than the East over the last decade, we were the only Cup winner out of the East since '95 until Tampa in '04. They were a lot closer to being a championship team when they had Oates, Hull, CuJo etc, while Thachuk was in Phoenix.



EXACTLY RIGHT! :evil:
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#54 Derek21

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 12:59 PM

Tri,

You can apply this same argument:

"these teams never had the kind of secondary scoring or strong defense to go very far in the playoffs. They relied on below-average defensemen and finesse scorers to have strong regular seasons, only to tank in the playoffs because the whole team other than a few guys was dreck"

to rationalize why Anaheim, Carolina, Calgary and even Tampa should have been bounced in the first round of the playoffs, yet these teams managed to make it to the finals with alot less talent than those St. Louis teams.

The difference is leadership and character, which Tkachuk doesn't bring to the table.
He has never made these talented teams better nor elevated their standards.

On paper, Tkachuk is a very good player, but he lacks the intangibles that produces winning TEAMS.



You can't include Tampa with the first three because of their talent level. Plus they didn't exactly come from nowhere to win it all. The previous year, they pushed the Devils in the second round despite it only going five. Anaheim and Carolina were big time surprises. Calgary was a lot of people's darkhorses to make a run. Plus they had Iginla.
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#55 Triumph

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 01:09 PM

Tri,

You can apply this same argument:

"these teams never had the kind of secondary scoring or strong defense to go very far in the playoffs. They relied on below-average defensemen and finesse scorers to have strong regular seasons, only to tank in the playoffs because the whole team other than a few guys was dreck"

to rationalize why Anaheim, Carolina, Calgary and even Tampa should have been bounced in the first round of the playoffs, yet these teams managed to make it to the finals with alot less talent than those St. Louis teams.

The difference is leadership and character, which Tkachuk doesn't bring to the table.
He has never made these talented teams better nor elevated their standards.

On paper, Tkachuk is a very good player, but he lacks the intangibles that produces winning TEAMS.


No, the difference is goaltending quite simply - the teams you mention got great goaltending and fluked their way to the Finals. Calgary was also far grittier than any of those St. Louis teams. Anaheim had better depth from top to bottom on defense. Carolina too. What unifies those three teams is that they had defenders who weren't giving the puck away all the time - St. Louis never had that, with the awful Salvador and Finley getting regular minutes.

This really isn't an argument - you cannot show me any one of those Phoenix or St. Louis teams being great. You can't because they weren't - they got some good luck during the regular season and hit a bad patch during the playoffs because good teams stopped their top line scoring and they didn't have enough secondary scoring to compensate. Or let's not forget that Elias didn't make the Devils better with his 13 point performance in the 03 playoffs.
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#56 SueNJ97

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 01:10 PM

I'm intkachtrigued by the possibilities. He sure seems to have great chemistry with Gomez and Gionta.

The Good To Go line?

The American Legion?

The United Skates?

The U.S. of Aim?

The Red, White and Food?

The possiblities are endless!



I don't want NJ to get him but I'd have to vote for Red, White and Food. I wonder how KT would feel about being put through a workout by V. Bure?
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#57 NJDevs4978

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 03:10 PM

Thachuk might be worth acquiring for that moniker alone, I love the Red, White and Food :rofl:
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#58 Weekes Head

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 03:12 PM

Tka-Chuk
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...poster claims to have a friend whos father know Kovalchucks agent's close partner and he was told by his friends father that they are just sorting the details out.


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#59 NJDevs4978

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 03:14 PM

Yeah well if the man ever played any games for my fantasy team maybe I'd get the spelling right :lol: :P
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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#60 Weekes Head

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 03:28 PM

:P
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...poster claims to have a friend whos father know Kovalchucks agent's close partner and he was told by his friends father that they are just sorting the details out.


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