45 replies to this topic

[MantaRay]

You aware that Staal is a 100 point center right?

He was also -8 and 40% of his points came on the PP. His stats are paded, particularly early in the season while the ref's were still trying to understand the new rules. He also benefited by Lavilolettes aggressive offensive philosophy and tons more offensive talent then we have.

Staal is a great player, no doubt, but Gomer is a better all-around player and can do just as much with less talent around him. I don't think you can say the same about Staal....so far.

[bruins4777]

first off thornton isn't comparable to gomez. thornton had more assists than gomez had points. By gomez's age thornton already had a 100 point season in the old NHL

so gomez being better all around, while also being around 3 years older means that he is worth a defensively average 100 point center?

so only staal took advantage of the rules at the begining of the season? that means every other player who put up a large amount of points didn't take advantage of that? what did gomez just decide "i feel bad for the refs i won't pad my stats!"

so staal also plays in an offensive system? he also didn't have sergei brylin and zach parise as the following centers.

Edited by bruins4777, 11 July 2006 - 01:07 PM.

[Pepperkorn]

What I find amusing is how one guy can offer up Parent and friends for Gomez and then laugh at a Gomez for Staal straight up --- I mean where is the continuity of logic? The only through line in both thoughts I see is the Devils can f*ck themselves (out of necessity or whathaveyou) but no other team would ever be that stupid --- for that and that alone I say this thread is BS. I considered the original offer too...

[bostondevil11]

I didn't really mean to compair Thornton and Gomez as players but they were both teams #1 center.

[bruins4777]

legwand and parent for gomez is really good for the preds, but bad for the devs. The thing is, legwand is a very strong defensive center, but always injured. He has some killer wheels and has been on the verge of breaking out offensively for years now, but can't seem to do it. Granted he's young, but the time for him to put up points is rapidly fading.

Parent and Klein are both intriguing prospects. Parent isn't NHL ready, and will most likely need 1 or 2 years before he's really ready. Klein is ready, but only as a no.5. They're both very safe NHL prospects, and at the least each have no.4 potential, if not more. They could both help out the weak defensive prospect core of the devils.

Nonetheless it's a bad deal for the devils in the immediete future. Down the road if legwand breaks out the devils could easily win.

[metallidevils]

i remember legwand having like a 99 potential rating in i think nhl 2002

How much is Rafalski making a season? I think he is worth every penny; I would rather see Gomez go than him, but hopefully we can keep both, and Gionta.

[Pepperkorn]

Legwand sounds like a dyck



get it?

[MissionHockey]

first off thornton isn't comparable to gomez. thornton had more assists than gomez had points. By gomez's age thornton already had a 100 point season in the old NHL

so gomez being better all around, while also being around 3 years older means that he is worth a defensively average 100 point center?

so only staal took advantage of the rules at the begining of the season? that means every other player who put up a large amount of points didn't take advantage of that? what did gomez just decide "i feel bad for the refs i won't pad my stats!"

so staal also plays in an offensive system? he also didn't have sergei brylin and zach parise as the following centers.

I would reply but it would just be an echo of his statements.

Keep in mind, this is only if NJ absolutely has to trade Gomez. This package is better than what Edm got for Pronger, and worlds better than what Ottawa got for Havlat.

[bostondevil11]

Legwand sounds like a dyck



get it?

[rbdf]

Legwand sounds like a dyck



get it?

you always make me smile pk

[Triumph]

I would reply but it would just be an echo of his statements.

Keep in mind, this is only if NJ absolutely has to trade Gomez. This package is better than what Edm got for Pronger, and worlds better than what Ottawa got for Havlat.

No it isn't. Legwand's UFA in a year.

I don't like the trade as it addresses none of our needs, creates a gaping hole at 1st line center, and basically destroys our offense since Gionta is dependent on Gomez. Last year was a fluke for him - you take Gomez out of this offense and Gionta's a 30 goal scorer.

I think the Devils will waive Jason Wiemer, they will trade Sergei Brylin, Vladimir Malakhov, and Alexander Mogilny, and they'll have room to sign the 2nd line center they need, if they can find him on the open market.

I can't remember the last time Lou traded for a prospect in a deal like this - usually he's adding one.

[rbdf]

I would reply but it would just be an echo of his statements.

Keep in mind, this is only if NJ absolutely has to trade Gomez. This package is better than what Edm got for Pronger, and worlds better than what Ottawa got for Havlat.

my point, with the names i tossed out there, was that gomer is a #1 center, behind him we have nothing better than a mediocre #3 and some hope for a couple of guys that may some day develop into solid #2's (if parise was a solid #1 candidate he would have shown us more last season - i'm not counting him out, but based on his rookie year, i'm projecting solid #2 for him, and after him, prospects are just that, "prospects", until they suit up and bring it to the nhl level, you can't know what they'll be (see past top 5 pick busts that are too numerous to list out))

So, by throwing out the names I threw out there, I was basically saying we need a home run deal in order to part with gomer - and it would be a net zero or negative payroll impact then, not to mention that none of those guys mentioned, or other comparables, are on the auction block to begin with.

SO, it means you deal with arbitration, pay gomer what you're told to for the one year, and six months from now when your allowed to renegotiate the deal with him (Jan. '07 I believe) you lock him up for 5 years - If you can't do so before the trade deadline, then you may have to consider moving him since he could walk away, although, we certainly ran that risk with Patty this summer and although I fully believed he was a gonner, here he is in Red and Black for his career.

Basically, you trade away whoever you have to in order to make enough room for gomer to feed elias for the next 5 years. If that means gio goes, well, so be it. If it means pando, oh well. Brylin? hey, a devil for the history books, but you know what, if he ain't got the ability to put up 50 or more helpers in a season, it's time to move along.

Like someone else said, we can't keep rolling out 3 lines of guys who just plod along. Gomer has speed and hands and puck carrying/passing skills that we absolutely need in this day and age. I'd hate to put this out there, but I'd be more willing to give up Maddog, and try to shore up the defense and get a cheaper pk specialist, than I would be willing to give up gomer and his offensive potential in this new NHL.

Besides, gomer has a great attitude and is always good for an entertaining interview - he's one of very few personalities on this team now that dano retired and Jim McKenzie went away.

[rbdf]

btw, Pronger is overrated and the deal for Havlet actually looks pretty good for Ottawa considering their roster and pipeline of talent coming through the system. You've got to consider the difference between any NJ deal involving Gomer and Ottawa doing anything with their forwards - NJ would be dealing from a position of weakness, Ottawa was dealing from a position of Stregnth. So they give up havlet, they still have spezza, alfredson, heatley and about 4 other guys who have shown an outstanding ability to put the puck in the net/on the sticks of others who put the puck in the net. NJ has about 3 of that type of player, and you're proposing trading one of them - ouch.

[MissionHockey]

No it isn't. Legwand's UFA in a year.

I don't like the trade as it addresses none of our needs, creates a gaping hole at 1st line center, and basically destroys our offense since Gionta is dependent on Gomez. Last year was a fluke for him - you take Gomez out of this offense and Gionta's a 30 goal scorer.

I think the Devils will waive Jason Wiemer, they will trade Sergei Brylin, Vladimir Malakhov, and Alexander Mogilny, and they'll have room to sign the 2nd line center they need, if they can find him on the open market.

I can't remember the last time Lou traded for a prospect in a deal like this - usually he's adding one.

The idea is not to get a player who is a legitimate 1st line center, but somebody who wouldn't look out of place for the time being. The Devils would be EXTREMELY lucky if they can add another player at all, much less a second line center. Legwand only makes 1.5 million, and is doubtful that he would get a much higher raise. Plus he does have offensive skills. I truly believe the Devils can survive this season with somebody like Legwand centering Elias.

The other players I had in mind were Kyle Calder and Jarret Stoll.

my point, with the names i tossed out there, was that gomer is a #1 center, behind him we have nothing better than a mediocre #3 and some hope for a couple of guys that may some day develop into solid #2's (if parise was a solid #1 candidate he would have shown us more last season - i'm not counting him out, but based on his rookie year, i'm projecting solid #2 for him, and after him, prospects are just that, "prospects", until they suit up and bring it to the nhl level, you can't know what they'll be (see past top 5 pick busts that are too numerous to list out))

Which is exactly why the Devils need a center in return for the trade. Nobody will give up a player with the calibur of Gomez, especially with the bind we are in moneywise. Parise and Brylin might be able to pull off playing the 2nd line center.

So, by throwing out the names I threw out there, I was basically saying we need a home run deal in order to part with gomer - and it would be a net zero or negative payroll impact then, not to mention that none of those guys mentioned, or other comparables, are on the auction block to begin with.

But don't you see that no homerun deal will be coming? It would be a different situation if the Devils were in such bad shape capwise, Gomez would probably be untouchable, but thats just not the era the Devils are in now.

SO, it means you deal with arbitration, pay gomer what you're told to for the one year, and six months from now when your allowed to renegotiate the deal with him (Jan. '07 I believe) you lock him up for 5 years - If you can't do so before the trade deadline, then you may have to consider moving him since he could walk away, although, we certainly ran that risk with Patty this summer and although I fully believed he was a gonner, here he is in Red and Black for his career.

1. Gomez is not Elias. The Devils organization was very loyal and supportive of Patrik when he was in a time of need. It is my personal opinion that he felt he owed them something.

2. I would think that if Gomez doesn't get a long term contract now, he is almost certain to test the FA waters next offseason. When some dumb bloke GM could blow him away with a 7million dollar offer, in which case the Devils might even walk away from him.

Like someone else said, we can't keep rolling out 3 lines of guys who just plod along. Gomer has speed and hands and puck carrying/passing skills that we absolutely need in this day and age. I'd hate to put this out there, but I'd be more willing to give up Maddog, and try to shore up the defense and get a cheaper pk specialist, than I would be willing to give up gomer and his offensive potential in this new NHL.

I understand that the way Gomez breaks the trap makes life a hell of a lot easier. I wouldn't say he's an expendable asset, but at the same time I just don't think its the most vital. NJ might be one of the only teams in the league where the "3rd line" is more valuable than the first. They play the most minutes. I don't think we can afford giving up Madden with out a huge drop in the standings.


Gomez is my favorite player next to Elias, but I just don't think the money is there.

[Triumph]

Giving up Madden is impossible - Mission's right. That's a *huge* hole - it'd be hard to find another guy who could play 20 minutes.

Legwand would look out of place. He's not very good. He was drafted #2 overall - that's about it. He'll be 26, and has had 3 30 assist seasons and no seasons with more than 20 goals. He's a marginal 2nd line center who is injury-prone - he'll probably have to re-invent himself a la Rob Niedermayer to be a valued member of a decent squad.

As rdbf very acutely noted, Ottawa is dealing Havlat from a position of strength - they won the Conference basically without him, so I think the Havlat comparison is unwarranted. The Devils have nothing even close to Gomez. My point here is that the Devils are already weak down the center - to deal a center and get a worse one back makes a bad situation worse. If the Devils are going to make this kind of move they should consider dealing Brian Rafalski - but I don't think they will because that's almost equally as foolish. They will find a taker for Malakhov and/or Mogilny's contract, and when they do, they will actually be in quite a good cap situation all things considered.

I feel fairly confident that Lou L. would not lock up Jamie Langenbrunner at 5/14.5 if he thought he would have to deal Gomez. If we were to deal Gomez, I'd much rather have us do it in a Pronger to Anaheim way where we get a very solid prospect back, as well another mid-range prospect, rather than get a guy who won't be in New Jersey in a year anyway.

[Voros19]

I don't like the trade as it addresses none of our needs, creates a gaping hole at 1st line center, and basically destroys our offense since Gionta is dependent on Gomez. Last year was a fluke for him - you take Gomez out of this offense and Gionta's a 30 goal scorer.

I don't think so. Lines were being shuffled nightly earlier in the year. Gionta produced with whoever he was paired with - whether it was Parise, Kozlov, or Gomez. Gomez pretty much sucked until late December, while Gionta was carrying the team. Obviously he benefits from being with Gomer, but he would certainly be more than a 30 goal scorer without him.

Edited by Voros19, 11 July 2006 - 04:33 PM.

[Triumph]

I don't think so. Lines were being shuffled nightly earlier in the year. Gionta produced with whoever he was paired with - whether it was Parise, Kozlov, or Gomez. Gomez pretty much sucked until late December, while Gionta was carrying the team. Obviously he benefits from being with Gomer, but he would certainly be more than a 30 goal scorer without him.

That was the fluke part of it. Gionta is not a 40 goal scorer 'on his own'. He succeeded when the rules were most tight, and he was on a hot streak as well - got a lot of bounces during that stretch.

I'd put the O/U of Gionta's goals this season at 39 pro-rated (minimum 25 games).

[coldply123]

If Lou trades Gomez, hes sure as heck going to get more in return than Legwand and a defense prospect.

[MissionHockey]

Giving up Madden is impossible - Mission's right. That's a *huge* hole - it'd be hard to find another guy who could play 20 minutes.

Legwand would look out of place. He's not very good. He was drafted #2 overall - that's about it. He'll be 26, and has had 3 30 assist seasons and no seasons with more than 20 goals. He's a marginal 2nd line center who is injury-prone - he'll probably have to re-invent himself a la Rob Niedermayer to be a valued member of a decent squad.

As rdbf very acutely noted, Ottawa is dealing Havlat from a position of strength - they won the Conference basically without him, so I think the Havlat comparison is unwarranted. The Devils have nothing even close to Gomez. My point here is that the Devils are already weak down the center - to deal a center and get a worse one back makes a bad situation worse. If the Devils are going to make this kind of move they should consider dealing Brian Rafalski - but I don't think they will because that's almost equally as foolish. They will find a taker for Malakhov and/or Mogilny's contract, and when they do, they will actually be in quite a good cap situation all things considered.

I feel fairly confident that Lou L. would not lock up Jamie Langenbrunner at 5/14.5 if he thought he would have to deal Gomez. If we were to deal Gomez, I'd much rather have us do it in a Pronger to Anaheim way where we get a very solid prospect back, as well another mid-range prospect, rather than get a guy who won't be in New Jersey in a year anyway.

The whole point of the deal is that Legwand is temporary. Next year when the Devils have tons of cap space they can sign another center. I whole heartedly believe that Legwand could produce 60 points playing with the Devils, then the Devils can let him go and look for an upgrade during the offseason. Hell, if Gomez only signs a one year deal, they can go back and get him! You made a good point about Langenbrunner which I had never thought of.

Jarret Stoll also had 68 points with Edm, and will probably get 2 million from the arbitrator. He is another option.

[coldply123]

The whole point of the deal is that Legwand is temporary. Next year when the Devils have tons of cap space they can sign another center. I whole heartedly believe that Legwand could produce 60 points playing with the Devils, then the Devils can let him go and look for an upgrade during the offseason. Hell, if Gomez only signs a one year deal, they can go back and get him! You made a good point about Langenbrunner which I had never thought of.

Jarret Stoll also had 68 points with Edm, and will probably get 2 million from the arbitrator. He is another option.

You dont make trades for the sake of making trades.

Gomez is far more valuable to the Devils than Stoll or Legwand would or ever could be and I fully believe that Gomez is worth more in trade value than them both, especially Legwand.

While I have been critical of Gomez at times, he is a supremely talented player and is held in high regard by many GMs.