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Verizon / Cablevision MSG HD FCC fight continues...


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#41 section 110

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 09:57 PM

reviving this thread because I'm moving to an area where I can choose Cablevision or Fios for TV service. I'm leaning toward fios because all my sources say the picture quality is better, the internet service faster plus the thought of paying the Dolans over $100 each month sickens me (I guess if they sold the MSG properties it wouldn't be as big of a deal). Of course, I'm not too thrilled about going back to watching the Devils in SD after having HD for a couple years.

There's no timeline for Fios getting MSG HD. Does anyone know if any of our games were on the Center Ice HD channel or NHL Network HD channel last year (and not blacked out)? That would help.

Anyone have recent experiences with Fios vs. cablevision?
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#42 Colin226

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 11:36 PM

I know a lot about FiOS as I researched the technology and stuff before getting it, but the basic review for me is... well to be honest it's hard to put in words..

FiOS is like a whole new world of TV and Internet.. The picture and sound quality on TV is unreal.. You think HD is good with your current provider and then you watch FiOS in HD and it blows you away.. I remember my picture on Comcast used to have shadows and blocks, but FiOS is just smooth viewing.. Even fast paced sports looked superb.. The surround sound quality is also far superior in my book and I recommend getting a 5.1 system...

Internet is just FAST.. I mean I remember getting cable internet and thinking it just couldn't get faster, but with FiOS it can.. FiOS is also higher bandwidth so multiple people can be on the Internet while watching TV and you won't have a single problem..

The installation is also a very cool process too and the installer guys are generally very friendly from what I hear.. My guy rewired all my stuff for free because he wanted to make it look nice.. He kept talking tech specs with me about FiOS and conveyed a sense of enthusiasm I just never saw with Comcast..

In general, FiOS is 100% worth it.. Cable companies keep trying to pump more data through the very old technology of cable wiring, but FiOS (bringing the fiber optic cable straight into your home rather than just using it for long distance networking as was its previous use) is just better.. People even say that Verizon has barely tapped into their fiber lines' potential so it can only get better..

Yes, it sucks not watching the Devils in HD, but honestly the standard def picture is so much clearer and more colorful than with cable (yes, even standard def on FiOS is superior) that I think it's a small loss when you look at all the other pluses it has
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#43 Bulletproof

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 09:25 AM

Just to tack on to what Colin wrote, the difference between cable SD and FIOS SD is remarkable. The HD difference is also noticable, especially on large screens, but the SD is unreal...none of the "blocking" or pixelation you get with cable. I imagine if you have a home theater amp that upconverts video sources to 1080i, the FIOS SD would be more than good enough to watch MSG and MSG +.

The only thing I've noticed with FIOS is that it's a pain to hook up TIVO to. Since FIOS requires you to have a cable box, you need to get a cable card for it work, which, from what I've read, is tough to get from Verizon...they want you pay $15 a month for their DVR!

On top of that, if you want the ability to do two things at once with your TIVO (record a show and watch another live), you're going to need a dual tuner TIVO with two cable cards, and even then you have to be careful as older TIVOs don't accept purely digital signals. Series 2 TIVO's have two tuners, but, for some odd reason, one accepts analog only and one accepts digital.

So if you have a TIVO and you use all the extra stuff TIVO does (Recommendations, streaming from PC's, Amazon On-Demand, etc), you may want to think twice before going with FIOS. Most companies charge you for the cable cards (typically $3 a month), you still have the TIVO subscription on top of that and you really need a brand new TIVO (Series 3) for everything to work properly. Then again, if you just use TIVO as a DVR, I would switch to FIOS and just get their DVR. While it's not as slick as the TIVO and doesn't have as much space, it's fine for the casual DVR user, and the cost works out to be the same.
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#44 njdevil26

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 09:35 AM

They haven't set Clark up for FIOS yet but we are seriously considering switching once they do. Comcast is horrible on so many levels.

And add to that the guilt that we are supporting Pennsylvania's economy with Comcast. Makes me sick.
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#45 section 110

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 01:12 PM

Thanks, Bullet - but if I use the Fios DVR instead of TiVO, I should not have any of the issues you list, correct?
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#46 PeteyNice

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 01:30 PM

Just to tack on to what Colin wrote, the difference between cable SD and FIOS SD is remarkable. The HD difference is also noticable, especially on large screens, but the SD is unreal...none of the "blocking" or pixelation you get with cable. I imagine if you have a home theater amp that upconverts video sources to 1080i, the FIOS SD would be more than good enough to watch MSG and MSG +.

The only thing I've noticed with FIOS is that it's a pain to hook up TIVO to. Since FIOS requires you to have a cable box, you need to get a cable card for it work, which, from what I've read, is tough to get from Verizon...they want you pay $15 a month for their DVR!

On top of that, if you want the ability to do two things at once with your TIVO (record a show and watch another live), you're going to need a dual tuner TIVO with two cable cards, and even then you have to be careful as older TIVOs don't accept purely digital signals. Series 2 TIVO's have two tuners, but, for some odd reason, one accepts analog only and one accepts digital.

So if you have a TIVO and you use all the extra stuff TIVO does (Recommendations, streaming from PC's, Amazon On-Demand, etc), you may want to think twice before going with FIOS. Most companies charge you for the cable cards (typically $3 a month), you still have the TIVO subscription on top of that and you really need a brand new TIVO (Series 3) for everything to work properly. Then again, if you just use TIVO as a DVR, I would switch to FIOS and just get their DVR. While it's not as slick as the TIVO and doesn't have as much space, it's fine for the casual DVR user, and the cost works out to be the same.



That is not really true. They have MultiStream (M-Stream) cable cards which can translate two streams on one card. Of course you still won't get on demand or pay per view but you will get all of the Tivo features.

Also, unless you are happy with just getting analog, you would need cable cards to take full advantage of a Tivo HD whether you went with cable or Verizon. I don't think Series 2 Tivos are even worth discussing since they aren't HD.

Cablevision vs Verizon is a much more difficult choice than Comcast vs Verizon. FIOS is awesome but Cablevision isn't bad either. I would price them out and see which comes out to be less. Remember that there is a special place in hell reserved for Verizon's billing department.
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#47 Jimmy Leeds

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 01:41 PM

I called Cablevision telling them I was switching to FIOS ( I wasn't)

They credited me $70 and lowered my monthly about $23
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#48 njdevil26

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 01:50 PM

I called Cablevision telling them I was switching to FIOS ( I wasn't)

They credited me $70 and lowered my monthly about $23


Yeah we did the same thing to Comcast and they lowered our bill 50$ per month. It's still expensive because we have 1 DVR HD box, 2 HD boxes, and 2 Digital boxes along with internet and phone.
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#49 Bulletproof

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 02:10 PM

That is not really true. They have MultiStream (M-Stream) cable cards which can translate two streams on one card. Of course you still won't get on demand or pay per view but you will get all of the Tivo features.

Also, unless you are happy with just getting analog, you would need cable cards to take full advantage of a Tivo HD whether you went with cable or Verizon. I don't think Series 2 Tivos are even worth discussing since they aren't HD.

Cablevision vs Verizon is a much more difficult choice than Comcast vs Verizon. FIOS is awesome but Cablevision isn't bad either. I would price them out and see which comes out to be less. Remember that there is a special place in hell reserved for Verizon's billing department.

Thanks for the clarification, Petey. In actuality, I've just started researching TIVO recently as my mom has an ancient TIVO and just switched to FIOS. She is as low tech as it gets...regular TV, no HD, etc, etc. Her TIVO is a hand me down Series 1 which, with the FIOS, works as a glorifed VCR...you can't change channels while it's recording, etc, etc. I've been trying to find the cheapest TIVO option for her as she doesn't need HD, yet would like to watch live TV and record at the same time. Any advise would be appreciated!

Also, Petey's right on the Cablevision vs FIOS issue. I have Cablevision and it's not that bad, especially since MSG and MSG + come in HD. I had FIOS for about 2 months when I lived in Little Ferry, but the other option there was Time Warner, which stunk, so my options may be too biased on that.

By the way, section, if you go with the FIOS equipment, it works seemlessly. No problems at all!
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#50 PeteyNice

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 02:28 PM

Thanks for the clarification, Petey. In actuality, I've just started researching TIVO recently as my mom has an ancient TIVO and just switched to FIOS. She is as low tech as it gets...regular TV, no HD, etc, etc. Her TIVO is a hand me down Series 1 which, with the FIOS, works as a glorifed VCR...you can't change channels while it's recording, etc, etc. I've been trying to find the cheapest TIVO option for her as she doesn't need HD, yet would like to watch live TV and record at the same time. Any advise would be appreciated!

Also, Petey's right on the Cablevision vs FIOS issue. I have Cablevision and it's not that bad, especially since MSG and MSG + come in HD. I had FIOS for about 2 months when I lived in Little Ferry, but the other option there was Time Warner, which stunk, so my options may be too biased on that.

By the way, section, if you go with the FIOS equipment, it works seemlessly. No problems at all!



I think the FIOS DVR is your best option. Tivo service is expensive plus you have the upfront costs to buy the Tivo AND you lose On Demand and PPV which may or may not be a deal breaker for you.

Really, these are your options:

- A series 2, dual tuner Tivo
- Series 2 Tivos are dirt cheap. However, you still have to pay for Tivo service and to use the dual tuner capability you need to rent TWO boxes from Verizon.

- A Tivo HD w/cable card
- When I had FIOS (~ two years ago) they charged me $2 a month for the M-Stream card. It was a pain in the ass to get but I chalk that up to it being new as much as anything else. Assuming Verizon has not upped the price substantially the monthly cost difference between the FIOS DVR and Tivo Service + Cable Card is not crazy.
- Tivo HDs are not cheap at $200 for a refurb up front
- As with either Tivo option you won't get On Demand and PPV
- Tivo HD is obviously HD ready when your mom is


- Verizon's DVR
- Not as slick as Tivo. No Netflix, etc
- One box that does everything - no worrying about getting the right card or having to re-seat it etc
- Provides access to On Demand and PPV

- Forthcoming Tivo
- If you can wait Tivo is said to be releasing a version with True2Way (which supports on demand and ppv) soon
- Price is unknown, but here is a hint it won't be cheap

If you don't have to have Tivo then I would go with FIOS DVR. If you need Tivo and not having On Demand is OK then I would spring for a refurb Tivo HD and a cable card.
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#51 section 110

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 02:32 PM

OK - so back to the hockey issue - are any of our games on the center ice HD channel or NHL Network HD?
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#52 PeteyNice

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 02:38 PM

OK - so back to the hockey issue - are any of our games on the center ice HD channel or NHL Network HD?


Games on Center Ice HD and NHL Network are all subject to the league's blackout policy. So the short answer is: if you live in the NY Metro area it doesn't matter.
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#53 section 110

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 02:49 PM

Games on Center Ice HD and NHL Network are all subject to the league's blackout policy. So the short answer is: if you live in the NY Metro area it doesn't matter.


thanks - so cablevision is my only HD option.
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#54 Bulletproof

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 03:03 PM

Thanks for info, Petey! That saves me a bunch of time searching and researching. One important piece of the puzzle is that my mom is connecting using my uncle's "Lifetime Subscription", whatever that is. Bascially, she's not paying the monthly fee, so all she needs is a new box and the cable cards, if she wants to stick with TIVO.

That being said, I was hoping to find them a solution for under $150...that way, you can justify the purchase by saving on the $15 a month Verizon charges for their DVR...pay up once, and you're good for a while. Doesn't look like that's going to happen, so I'll have to see what they think about spending upwards of $300 for the new TIVO box.

Anyway, thanks again for the info!

Edited by Bulletproof, 28 May 2009 - 03:13 PM.

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#55 PeteyNice

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 05:33 PM

Thanks for info, Petey! That saves me a bunch of time searching and researching. One important piece of the puzzle is that my mom is connecting using my uncle's "Lifetime Subscription", whatever that is. Bascially, she's not paying the monthly fee, so all she needs is a new box and the cable cards, if she wants to stick with TIVO.

That being said, I was hoping to find them a solution for under $150...that way, you can justify the purchase by saving on the $15 a month Verizon charges for their DVR...pay up once, and you're good for a while. Doesn't look like that's going to happen, so I'll have to see what they think about spending upwards of $300 for the new TIVO box.

Anyway, thanks again for the info!


I don't think it works that way. The lifetime subscription with Tivo is for the box itself. You can transfer it with the box to someone else but you can't use it on a new one. They may have changed the rules but that is what I remember.
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#56 oofrostonoo

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 12:20 PM

Just got fios. Internet is much faster, TV is very crisp. SD looks very good, and HD has a noticeable difference too. All the graphics on hd programming look very "vector" like. Which is good.
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#57 The Rock 07

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 11:57 AM

I'm considering switching from Cablevision to Fios now that they offer MLB Extra Innings, however, the only thing holding me back is that Fios does not offer the Devils in HD. Is Fios's SD so close to Cablevision's HD that it wouldn't matter, or should I stick with Cablevision?
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#58 DevilMinder

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 09:42 PM

While the FIOS SD is great... The SD broadcast of the Devils game is pretty bland.
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#59 95Crash

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 10:30 PM

I've been fairly happy with Cablevision's IO Triple Play package and can't see myself switching to Verizon FIOS just yet, especially seeing how they don't offer Devils games in HD. But I'm tempted to do what Jimmy did and see if Cablevision might lower my price.
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#60 Colin226

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 12:30 AM

I've been fairly happy with Cablevision's IO Triple Play package and can't see myself switching to Verizon FIOS just yet, especially seeing how they don't offer Devils games in HD. But I'm tempted to do what Jimmy did and see if Cablevision might lower my price.


Worth a shot..

So you guys would sacrifice much much better Internet and HDTV/SDTV with more channels for Devils games in better quality?
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