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#1 Motor City Devil

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 09:05 AM

I'm sure after reading this article, you will do the right thing and flame EJ Hradek for this article. He obviously put less than 10 minutes of thought into most of these trophies... How can anyone vote for Rod Brind'Amour or Kris Draper for the Selke? Oh, I know - because that's the "fashionable" media pick for best defensive forward.

There are like 10 other guys that are more deserving than his picks for the Selke - Drury, Lehtinen, Pandalfo, Kyle Calder just to name a few.

Obviously he picks Luongo over Marty for the Vezina, and said he would even take him for the Hart before he took Brodeur. What a flake. :noclue:

Dumb Ass :rofl:
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#2 LOTCB

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 09:32 AM

Hradek < (N)Єverson

That idiot was the guy who reported the lockout was over, and it was all over E$PN, and then his reports were false...you think he would ever say anything about his bad report? Nah...swept under the rug...I won't even click the link I hate Hradek so much
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#3 Devils731

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 09:42 AM

EJ's point about Vezina and the 2 extra PP is trumped, IMO, by the fact that Marty plays in the East which has a lot more scoring talent than the West does.
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#4 PeteyNice

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 09:56 AM

Who cares what this assclown thinks. He doesn't get a vote so his opinion is meaningless.
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#5 sabamaha

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 10:24 AM

Scott Burnside is a fool too. It's real hard to read most of those guys on E$PN.... Buccigross is cool though. :koolaid:
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#6 Motor City Devil

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 10:30 AM

Scott Burnside is a fool too. It's real hard to read most of those guys on E$PN.... Buccigross is cool though. :koolaid:


Bucci is great... The only other thing E$PN is good for is the Mullet-man's podcast. That's pretty fun to listen to. I like their boxscores as well, for some reason they are easier to read than NHL.com or TSN.ca
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#7 sabamaha

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 10:38 AM

Bucci is great... The only other thing E$PN is good for is the Mullet-man's podcast. That's pretty fun to listen to. I like their boxscores as well, for some reason they are easier to read than NHL.com or TSN.ca


Agreed - ESPN is great for stats and scores but some of those writers are just so obviously biased that it's painful to read sometimes.
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#8 emptynet

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 12:15 PM

Predicted winner: Luongo will edge Brodeur in a very close vote by the GMs. If you're looking for a way to separate the two goalies with near identical stats, you might want to consider this fact. On average, the Canucks take two more penalties per game than the Devils. That means there's usually a little more pressure on Luongo. If this vote were to end in a dead heat between Luongo and Brodeur, it would be more than fair.


If this is the case then shouldnt Biron win because he has to endure playing on the worst team in the league.

What a tool...

Edited by emptynet, 05 April 2007 - 12:15 PM.

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#9 LizDevil30

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 01:55 PM

And how many one goal games does Luongo have to win?
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#10 NJD Jester

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 02:24 PM

Wow, that Selke field couldn't be more awful. Even if you're not going put Pandolfo as a finalist (and he should be...just ask Jagr), the Brind'Amour selection reeks of good 'ol boy networking.

As for the Jack Adams...look, I've made my feelings on Michel Therrien quite public, but let me add something here: If Therrien gets coach of the year, then Crosby can't win the Hart. To me, the Penguins are a team whose players have carried them over the last three months; anyone could have been behind the bench for this run. I've yet to have anyone explain to me what Michel Therrien has done to facilitate their success in the second half.

Alain Vigneault wins the Adams in a walk. To claim that he's simply riding Luongo is ill-informed and, more importantly, invalidates Therrien's candidacy if you're going to go with the "riding a player" theory.

And can someone remind me why Mike Babcock shouldn't get a truckload of praise for leading a team to the President's Trophy after losing Steve Yzerman and Brendan Shanahan?

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#11 NJDevs4978

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 03:37 PM

Wow, that Selke field couldn't be more awful. Even if you're not going put Pandolfo as a finalist (and he should be...just ask Jagr), the Brind'Amour selection reeks of good 'ol boy networking.

As for the Jack Adams...look, I've made my feelings on Michel Therrien quite public, but let me add something here: If Therrien gets coach of the year, then Crosby can't win the Hart. To me, the Penguins are a team whose players have carried them over the last three months; anyone could have been behind the bench for this run. I've yet to have anyone explain to me what Michel Therrien has done to facilitate their success in the second half.

Alain Vigneault wins the Adams in a walk. To claim that he's simply riding Luongo is ill-informed and, more importantly, invalidates Therrien's candidacy if you're going to go with the "riding a player" theory.

And can someone remind me why Mike Babcock shouldn't get a truckload of praise for leading a team to the President's Trophy after losing Steve Yzerman and Brendan Shanahan?


I don't know what you have against Therrien but you've made the comment that he 'only watched Oilers v2.0 develop ahead of schedule', so he had nothing at all to do with them developing ahead of schedule? They're almost entirely a young team playing like vets, and they're also winning without any defense to speak of other than Ryan Whitney (unless you count Gonchar, a forward playing on defense), and Fleury's not close to being a top tier goalie like Luongo.

I don't see why you're so high on Vigneault, Vancouver's improved by what, ten points and pretty much all of that's due to upgrading from Auld to Luongo. It is much, much, much easier to ride a great goalie (and very good defense) than it is to ride one great offensive player and a few other good ones. Plus, Pittsburgh's improved by like forty points and Crosby was on the team last year.

Babcock gets no credit because the Wings still have 'some' top-end talent (Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Hasek, etc) and because they play in a crappy division.

Edited by Hasan4978, 05 April 2007 - 03:45 PM.

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#12 Motor City Devil

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 04:46 PM

And can someone remind me why Mike Babcock shouldn't get a truckload of praise for leading a team to the President's Trophy after losing Steve Yzerman and Brendan Shanahan?


Bab-cock gets no credit because he is the coach of a really over-rated team. The Wings overachieve in the regular season, and under-perform in the play-offs (most of the time). Weakest division in hockey, they have loads of talent on the blue line, and plenty of goal scoring upfront. I also think Red Wings teams are the product of a system (much like the Devil's). Consider that Jimmy Devalano and Ken Holland have been together forever, and Jimmy D is the second godfather of the NHL (just behind LL). Hell, Dave Lewis is the worst coach in the league and he did fine in Detroit.

On a side note - a lot of Detroit fans hold Mike Bab-cock responsible for Yzerman retiring, especially towards the end. Steve wanted to come back, Mike was playing him on the THIRD LINE and would not play him more than 8 - 10 minutes per game. All Steve ever said was his knee felt great, he was in the best shape of his life, and he was scoring at about 0.75 points per game (on a third line). Most fans in Detroit agree that he's the main reason Steve didn't come back. :rant:

For that alone he should be banned from hockey!
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#13 NJD Jester

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 06:03 PM

I don't see why you're so high on Vigneault, Vancouver's improved by what, ten points and pretty much all of that's due to upgrading from Auld to Luongo. It is much, much, much easier to ride a great goalie (and very good defense) than it is to ride one great offensive player and a few other good ones. Plus, Pittsburgh's improved by like forty points and Crosby was on the team last year.


Yeah, no way the Penguins are better having added Malkin's 90 points and Jordan Staal's 30 goals, to go along with the maturation of players like Whitney and Fleury...

Vigneault's team, on the other hand, lost Bertuzzi's 71 points, Anson Carter's 33 goals and Ed Jovanovski. His merit-based style of coaching has made the overall team work despite those losses -- he's gotten 22 goals out of Taylor Pyatt, for god's sake.

Babcock gets no credit because the Wings still have 'some' top-end talent (Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Hasek, etc) and because they play in a crappy division.


Crappy division, I'll give you; but how on Earth can you give Therrien credit when he's rolling Crosby, Malkin, Recchi, Staal, Armstrong, Gonchar and Fleury but Babcock gets "no credit" because he's playing with a full deck, too?

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#14 NJDevs4978

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 06:39 PM

Yeah, no way the Penguins are better having added Malkin's 90 points and Jordan Staal's 30 goals, to go along with the maturation of players like Whitney and Fleury...

Vigneault's team, on the other hand, lost Bertuzzi's 71 points, Anson Carter's 33 goals and Ed Jovanovski. His merit-based style of coaching has made the overall team work despite those losses -- he's gotten 22 goals out of Taylor Pyatt, for god's sake.
Crappy division, I'll give you; but how on Earth can you give Therrien credit when he's rolling Crosby, Malkin, Recchi, Staal, Armstrong, Gonchar and Fleury but Babcock gets "no credit" because he's playing with a full deck, too?

<JESTER>


Pyatt's 22 goals are as much of a fluke as Carter's 33, the common denominator is they've both played with the Sedin twins. Jovo always misses half seasons anyway, Bieksa's emergence has helped fill the void and Vancouver still has a solid D. Losing Bertuzzi was a minus offensively but a plus off-ice and probably a plus defensively too.

Fleury's had a nice year but I'm not sure he's even in the top half of the league in goalies yet, nor do I think Pittsburgh's defense is in the top half of the league talentwise. Armstrong hasn't done nearly as well as last year.

Their team doesn't have the defense or goaltending of Detroit and Vancouver. They have the third best offense in the league and are only +29 in goals. When you're +29 in goals and 21 games above .500 that means you're usually winning a lot of close games.
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#15 NJD Jester

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 10:37 PM

Pyatt's 22 goals are as much of a fluke as Carter's 33, the common denominator is they've both played with the Sedin twins. Jovo always misses half seasons anyway, Bieksa's emergence has helped fill the void and Vancouver still has a solid D. Losing Bertuzzi was a minus offensively but a plus off-ice and probably a plus defensively too.

Fleury's had a nice year but I'm not sure he's even in the top half of the league in goalies yet, nor do I think Pittsburgh's defense is in the top half of the league talentwise. Armstrong hasn't done nearly as well as last year.

Their team doesn't have the defense or goaltending of Detroit and Vancouver. They have the third best offense in the league and are only +29 in goals. When you're +29 in goals and 21 games above .500 that means you're usually winning a lot of close games.


See, this is where I guess I'm missing the point. You seem to be saying Vancouver's success has to do with Luongo, the Sedins, players filling voids for stars who left; you seem to be saying that Pittsburgh is winning despite defensive and goaltending problems, and while you haven't been specific about what he's done, you give Therrien credit for the team's turnaround.

I'm just the opposite. I think Vigneault has squeezed every ounce of offense from the Canucks, and put out a talented defense that's played well in front of an admittedly great Luongo. I think he deserves credit for their success. The Penguins, on the other hand, are a team that is winning with talent and talent alone, and I just don't see their coach making much of a difference either way.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree...and watch Nolan win the Adams. :puke:

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#16 Triumph

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 10:47 PM

Because Shanahan's goals were mostly empty and Yzerman was finished, plus Detroit added Hasek this year and he's magically stayed healthy? They still have plenty of leaders on the team in Chelios and Schneider as well as Draper and Maltby - they're like the Devils of the West at this point.

Why Therrien gets no credit from you is astounding considering his defenders are terrible and guys like Mark Recchi and Ryan Malone aren't exactly any good either. Sergei Gonchar isn't half the D man he was in Washington (and he was overrated there by those in the know), and the team's defenders are a faceless group of nobodies.
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#17 NJDevs4978

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 11:12 PM

See, this is where I guess I'm missing the point. You seem to be saying Vancouver's success has to do with Luongo, the Sedins, players filling voids for stars who left; you seem to be saying that Pittsburgh is winning despite defensive and goaltending problems, and while you haven't been specific about what he's done, you give Therrien credit for the team's turnaround.

I'm just the opposite. I think Vigneault has squeezed every ounce of offense from the Canucks, and put out a talented defense that's played well in front of an admittedly great Luongo. I think he deserves credit for their success. The Penguins, on the other hand, are a team that is winning with talent and talent alone, and I just don't see their coach making much of a difference either way.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree...and watch Nolan win the Adams. :puke:

<JESTER>


Vancouver's 21st in the league in goal-scoring now, how much worse would they be without 'great' coaching? If anything, Naslund and Morrison have underachieved though you could say that about them the last few years.

BTW I'm not even saying I'd pick Therrien for coach of the year. As I said a few weeks ago, it's a weak field as far as picking a coach of the year this year, I think he can get it because of the 45-point turnaround and he deserves 'some' credit for that and the maturation of a young roster, plus getting them to play at least enough D to be middle of the pack.

Personally I'd pick Jacques before I picked Therrien, the Wild have allowed the fewest goals in the league employing three different goalies and a defensive core that scares nobody at first glance - or second glance. Plus offensively, they survived another injury-plagued year from Gaborik and are still around middle-of the pack in goals in a tough division. That team has actually flown completely under the radar this year though so I'm not sure if he'll get it or not.

Edited by Hasan4978, 05 April 2007 - 11:38 PM.

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