28 replies to this topic

[wallerstein]

Stevens currently stands in sixth place in the ranking Best NHL defense man of all time on rankopedia. The leaders are Orr, Bourque and Lidstrom, in that order.

[MantaRay]

Stevens currently stands in sixth place in the ranking Best NHL defense man of all time on rankopedia. The leaders are Orr, Bourque and Lidstrom, in that order.

Lidstrom is a great player, but is NOT as impactful as Stevens. Lidstrom lived and died because he had Yzerman, Shanahan, et. al to make him look better.

Stevens shouldered the burden by himself.

Biggest difference: Stevens could turn a game, series, season by sheer will, Lidstrom could not.

[SatansDevils]

Lidstrom is a great player, but is NOT as impactful as Stevens. Lidstrom lived and died because he had Yzerman, Shanahan, et. al to make him look better.

Stevens shouldered the burden by himself.

Biggest difference: Stevens could turn a game, series, season by sheer will, Lidstrom could not.

Agreed. Stevens belongs in the top 3 of all-time.

[Pepperkorn]

Insane. i dont feel like taking the time to sort of get my head around the whole thing but this list was made by youngsters who watched tape not the actual players -- or else the old farts have short memories. or people who read up on things and get a general feel -- the list just feels ill considered and uninformed -- as most do.

What sucks is that this tells me time does not tell a thing... word of mouth pretty much says it all -- and that comes down to hype, personal awards and mile stones reached.


EDITTED IN LATER
well OK... See I feel like yeah -- i missed Coffey's heyday but I just dont care for him. i dont care for Chelios. I think they're a$$holes and it's counts against them in the ranking for me

Lidstrom is technical impecable - he is wonderful - but the lack of passion- or worse yet his perfectly balanced passion leaves me cold - I just say hmmm, that's nice at the end of the day. I'd put him at #1 probably though just because he's perfect.

Bourque - hmeh - he is what he is. He's fine, you know? I dont think he'd even make my top 5 though

Orr he's great and all - but I'm seriously lame and I've said it before -- the man was so BLATANTLY physically fallable ... I'm an a$$hole what can I say I'd give him #2 just because I think I'm tainted aversely by everyone's loving him so much.

Larry vs. Stevens. This is the thing with me. They aren't at all the same - but they are --they're about the hockey first and foremost and I think that just ranks so high for me. I can't rank potvin in the top 3 because even though i was a fan -- maybe because I was... he was just a little too much of a star for me.

Stevens.... you know, part of me, sometimes, when I put him in the ranks of the peoples choice for great D, thinks he doesn't belong there... weird huh? He shares very little with those the public historically call the greats of defense - he made his own place and I just get confused trying to put him in somewhere He's either the best ... or he's a middling player who worked so hard he was better than most. But.. but you look at the whole career and you just think the choices he made - he was THAT talented he just made choices - prioritized differently (I think maybe the rest of the world thinks he sucked it up because he knew he wasn't talented enough to be a great so he made the UTTMOST of what he had - amybe that's true? )- it FEELS like they were for the good of hockey not the good of Stevens and that's just so hard for me to ignore -- I can't see his place it doesn't help that Larry is there to cloud the picture with a very similar dependability but greater use of offensive skill -- I dont know he is singularly exceptional and that is a fact. and I think it should be recognized - or he will drift into obscurity as some tough guy with good leadership skills -- which no one who researches him will even understand - so he'll just drift off -

Scott neidermayer WILL be considered the superior defenseman by the end of his career - we do all know that don't we?

Edited by Pepperkorn, 07 May 2007 - 03:59 PM.

[Jerrydevil]

There's a lot of problems with that list. Larry Robinson should not be below Lidstrom, Al McInnis and (gulp) Paul Coffey. Potvin is ninth? He should be higher.

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

Orr
Potvin
Shore
Bourque
Robinson
Park
Horton
Harvey

are all better then Stevens.....Chelios, Coffey ext may be better also...stupid list.

[Triumph]

Orr
Potvin
Shore
Bourque
Robinson
Park
Horton
Harvey

are all better then Stevens.....Chelios, Coffey ext may be better also...stupid list.

you watched all these guys play, right?

in sports like baseball where it's easier to adjust for era, these discussions are simpler.

fwiw i wouldn't take bourque in his prime over stevens in his prime.

[Pepperkorn]

Horton? better than stevens.. HA! What was your dad one of his drinking buddies or something JaSon?

Edited by Pepperkorn, 07 May 2007 - 03:57 PM.

[CMONPETEYD]

This is based on 172 internet votes people. This is a terrible sample size

[devils26]

How is Dion Phaneuf at 21? I think it is too early to judge that. By the way, Phaneuf is spelled "Phanuf" on that poll, and I think that takes away from the credibility.

Edited by devils26, 07 May 2007 - 04:05 PM.

[Pepperkorn]

See macInnes is indeed great - but to me he's one of those guys you overlook. He's great, you know but... He's better than the freaking donut man that's for sure THAT player worship is just a Canadian BAD HABIT IMO.

I think the fact Stevens DID distinguish himself - I mean he's so freaking driven to be the best but there isnt' a personal stake in it -- it's all about the hockey... what's with that? sorry

It is a stupid sample -- but it's people spewing what they're being fed by the media. That's what I meant in my first post -- it's fun though because it gets you thinking.

Edited by Pepperkorn, 07 May 2007 - 04:05 PM.

[Don]

I'm betting that Tim's donuts are better than Scott's donuts!!

Seriously Tim was a great player, but not a dominant leader. I don't think he was ever a team captain.. certainly not during his prime with the Leafs. And he had only 7 All-Star appearances compared to 13 for Stevens.

[Pepperkorn]

Donna Stevens has got the donuts in that house


and I guess you're take on Horton is about right Don -- mine might have been a little over the top. His drinking irks me for some reason it's so weak

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

you watched all these guys play, right?

in sports like baseball where it's easier to adjust for era, these discussions are simpler.

fwiw i wouldn't take bourque in his prime over stevens in his prime.

I don't have to, its pretty well known around the hockey world. You can take Stevens, that means nothing though.

Horton? better than stevens.. HA! What was your dad one of his drinking buddies or something JaSon?

Coming from a near Stalker of Stevens...to be expected.

[Devils731]

I don't have to, its pretty well known around the hockey world. You can take Stevens, that means nothing though.

I refute you! It is not pretty well known. Back up your reasoning with something more than "because"! Now it's tied 1-1 if things are well known or not so we'll need tie breakers.

Tie breaker #1 for Jason : Jason knows all and 1 vote is actually woth 14.6 million votes.

So I guess Jason is still winning the "because I said so" debate.

Edited by Devils731, 07 May 2007 - 04:28 PM.

[MantaRay]

Orr
Potvin
Shore
Bourque
Robinson
Park
Horton
Harvey

are all better then Stevens.....Chelios, Coffey ext may be better also...stupid list.

You have to be kidding me. Bourque won a, singular SC, thanks to Patrick Roy, otherwise he would still be a very good defensemen without a cup.

Orr
Robinson
Stevens
Potvin
Schoenfeld (sentimental)

Are my top choices. Orr revolutionized the game and could play both ends. Although I HATED Denis Potvin with a passion when he played, in hindsight he was the dominant D man of his era.

I know the legend of Eddie Shore, but never saw him play to judge.

[Pepperkorn]

How's the actuarial science degree coming along? Did you change your mind about that?

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

You have to be kidding me. Bourque won a, singular SC, thanks to Patrick Roy, otherwise he would still be a very good defensemen without a cup.

Orr
Robinson
Stevens
Potvin
Schoenfeld (sentimental)

Are my top choices. Orr revolutionized the game and could play both ends. Although I HATED Denis Potvin with a passion when he played, in hindsight he was the dominant D man of his era.

I know the legend of Eddie Shore, but never saw him play to judge.

You do know Harvey was the 2nd best defensemen in NHL history?

[LOTCB]

How is Dion Phaneuf at 21? I think it is too early to judge that. By the way, Phaneuf is spelled "Phanuf" on that poll, and I think that takes away from the credibility.

I was thinking the same thing.

[Derek21]

Lidstrom is a great player, but is NOT as impactful as Stevens. Lidstrom lived and died because he had Yzerman, Shanahan, et. al to make him look better.

Stevens shouldered the burden by himself.

Biggest difference: Stevens could turn a game, series, season by sheer will, Lidstrom could not.

If you're going to use that logic, then Stevens had Brodeur and Niedermayer too.


But I do agree with your premise.