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Patrick Elias overpaid?


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#41 SteveStevens

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 12:51 AM

Hes worth the money no doubt, hes untouchable.
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#42 SatansDevils

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 09:19 AM

Elias is not captain material or that type of player captain like Scotty was. there will never be another Scotty Stevens. One player who I think should have been the captain was Madden instead of Elias.
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#43 devils26

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 10:47 AM

Elias is not captain material or that type of player captain like Scotty was. there will never be another Scotty Stevens. One player who I think should have been the captain was Madden instead of Elias.

I think you have to separate being captain material, and being as good of a captain as Stevens was. Sure, Elias is not as good of a captain as Stevens, but that isn't really saying much. I think Elias can be as pretty good captain; he just needs one more year to learn.
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#44 puckrock

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 11:07 AM

:argh:

IMHO, the determining factor was the captaincy for his off-year. He took that job extremely seriously -- in the locker room and on the ice. On the ice, he tried to do way too much to prove he was deserving and capable. He put way too much pressure on himself to carry his line and carry his team. I agree he passed way too much. But then that was a common failing for the Devils last season.

Like others have said, he also was still having his blood count levels monitored.
I think this season, he's going to return to form. Gomez is gone. Elias will relax and go back to playing his game. Am really looking forward to see if he and Zubrus click. It could be interesting.

And considering the freaking contracts they're handing out in the new NHL, he's a bargain for what he does.


Bingo.

It was clear that Patrik put wayyy too much pressure on himself this past season. He obviously felt that he needed to bare a lot more weight then he's used to, for the betterment of the team. Couple that, with the ongoing problems with his former agents, I don't blame the guy for having his head up his ass the whole season. Hopefully, that will all be sorted out and he will come to camp with a clear mind. The team is fresh, with new guys like Zubrus, that hopefully will give Elias a new creative spark.

Now, Is Patrik overpaid? No. Not in this day and age. Be happy he was a free agent when he was and not this summer, or the Devils would be paying far out the ass for him. You have to remember, he earned his contract because of his play in the second part of 2006, and the subsequent playoff series vs. NYR. I do believe that he will get back to that form in the very near future. He just needs to relax, and not grip the stick as tight, as we'll see the Patrik Elias we all are accustomed to.

Does he deserve the 'C'? I'm torn on that topic. The only other player I would give the captaincy to would be Parise, but he's far too young to carry that load, but his intensity and work ethic make it hard to dismiss the thought.

All in all, I'm looking forward to this season. I do believe Elias will be back to his old form, and the team as a whole will look rejuvenated.
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#45 jsonnabend

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 04:16 PM

He obviously felt that he needed to bare a lot more weight then he's used to, for the betterment of the team.

But isn't that what captains are supposed to do?

And an earlier poster said something about there being no other player of Elias' "caliber" playing at the same price. I'm just trying to figure out what exactly Elias' caliber is.

For a "stupid thread" there certainly are some varying opinions here.

- Jeff
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#46 SteveStevens

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 04:35 PM

Elias is a very high player. When he was an UFA the Devils, Rangers, Blackhawks, Habs etc all went after him. Hes a player most teams want because hes storng on both sides of the puck, and remeber last year was a down year.
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#47 puckrock

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 05:24 PM

But isn't that what captains are supposed to do?

And an earlier poster said something about there being no other player of Elias' "caliber" playing at the same price. I'm just trying to figure out what exactly Elias' caliber is.

For a "stupid thread" there certainly are some varying opinions here.

- Jeff


Thanks for pointing that out. Honestly, I meant to right "...than he's supposed to". :doh1:

Stupid Sudafed. :P

Edited by puckrock, 14 July 2007 - 05:25 PM.

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#48 Triumph

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 05:59 PM

But isn't that what captains are supposed to do?

And an earlier poster said something about there being no other player of Elias' "caliber" playing at the same price. I'm just trying to figure out what exactly Elias' caliber is.

For a "stupid thread" there certainly are some varying opinions here.

- Jeff


Elias is a tough player to pin down because of the way the Devils use their checking line and defensemen. Since 03, Elias has been playing with Gomez - but he has not played minutes comparable to other superstars, and is often the last line in the rotation at even strength. Furthermore, very often the third pairing was used with the Elias line, meaning defenders like Alex Brooks, Richard Smehlik, Tommy Albelin, Ray Giroux, etc. etc. were the ones being relied on to get the puck to the forwards.

Elias would probably score 4-5 more goals a season if the Devils didn't do this - and I don't notice most teams doing this with their best players either.
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#49 squishyx

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 06:33 PM

Ya know, Jagr turned down the captaincy with the rangers because he felt that he didnt want the pressure and also because his english wasnt so great I believe.

Elias could have turned this down and taken that route if he didnt want the pressure. Infact while I dont think the words ever came from his mouth, a big thing he wanted before signing with the devils was the "C" as many of the people at this very boards were screaming at Lou for not giving to him.

He brought allthis pressure onto himself, he signed his lucrative contract and he hasnt lived up to it. He doesnt deserve any slack or more time, he deserves all the criticism he gets. I like him as much as the next guy but dont step up to the plate if you cant bat. There are plenty of character guys who couldhave burdened the C this last year if Elias couldnt handle the disctraction.
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#50 coldply123

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 09:07 PM

I remember being very hard on Elias last season.


I complained about his salary considering his production and performance wasnt commensurate.


After what has transpired this month, I TAKE ALL OF IT BACK.


Elias is now fairly compensated. Gomez is the most grossly overpaid player in hockey, with Briere a close second.


While Elias disappointed me with his lack of decision-making and seeming inability to create better shots for himself or take them for that matter, he is still an elite forward with excellent skating ability, vision, and offensive skills.

I for one think he may fare slightly better without Gomez, as Elias is a player who likes to have the puck to make a decision rather than rely on a speedster like Gomez to penetrate the zone and have to figure a way to position himself to receive an opening.

I may be wrong, but if you think back to when the A-line was together, Elias was the "Gomez" on that line in terms of his speed and playmaking ability. Arnott was the space-eating center, Sykora was the shot, but Elias was the pure skill.
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#51 Dadds

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 12:10 AM

I remember being very hard on Elias last season.
I complained about his salary considering his production and performance wasnt commensurate.
After what has transpired this month, I TAKE ALL OF IT BACK.
Elias is now fairly compensated. Gomez is the most grossly overpaid player in hockey, with Briere a close second.
While Elias disappointed me with his lack of decision-making and seeming inability to create better shots for himself or take them for that matter, he is still an elite forward with excellent skating ability, vision, and offensive skills.

I for one think he may fare slightly better without Gomez, as Elias is a player who likes to have the puck to make a decision rather than rely on a speedster like Gomez to penetrate the zone and have to figure a way to position himself to receive an opening.

I may be wrong, but if you think back to when the A-line was together, Elias was the "Gomez" on that line in terms of his speed and playmaking ability. Arnott was the space-eating center, Sykora was the shot, but Elias was the pure skill.


i hope last season was just and after effect of his hepititus
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#52 jsonnabend

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 10:30 AM

One thought that's surfaced at least a couple of times this thread (I think Triumph brought it once, for one, as did someone else) is that Elias is not a guy who typically scores being fed off the rush, like Mogilny was.

I wasn't a Gomez basher like many around here were. He did what he was supposed to do quite regularly; that is, he rushed the puck end-to-end. Perhaps the problem was that Elias wasn't a good match for him like Mogilny was, as others have suggested. We'll have to see if that proves correct this year with a different linemate for Elias.

As for the pressure of the captaincy, that too remains to be seen. I get the feeling that at least a few others around here agree with my thought that he was less than an effective captain.

- Jeff

Edited by jsonnabend, 15 July 2007 - 10:33 AM.

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#53 Triumph

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 10:54 AM

One thought that's surfaced at least a couple of times this thread (I think Triumph brought it once, for one, as did someone else) is that Elias is not a guy who typically scores being fed off the rush, like Mogilny was.

I wasn't a Gomez basher like many around here were. He did what he was supposed to do quite regularly; that is, he rushed the puck end-to-end. Perhaps the problem was that Elias wasn't a good match for him like Mogilny was, as others have suggested. We'll have to see if that proves correct this year with a different linemate for Elias.

As for the pressure of the captaincy, that too remains to be seen. I get the feeling that at least a few others around here agree with my thought that he was less than an effective captain.

- Jeff


A few points:

Last season Gomez rushed the puck end-to-end but too often put the puck in an area, not to a person. He was also willing to try passes that were dangerous and had little reward even if they were completed. Methinks Mr. Gomez was trying to inflate his assist totals. While Elias never meshed with him 100%, Gionta was that Mogilny-like sniper on his other wing - he would shoot off the rush.

Elias is a difficult choice for captain because most of his value to the team is scoring, and he's traditionally been a very streaky scorer. As a result, he rarely got into the kind of groove where he knew he was contributing and could help out his teammates. He was definitely willing to throw hits when he felt the team needed it.
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#54 metallidevils

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 11:32 AM

I agree that he's streaky, and unfortunately because of his hepatitis, it could make him more streaky...heptatitis basically wrecks the immune system and will affect him for years...one cold could basically mean a week or 2 straight of him looking lost on the ice, like he did many times this past season
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#55 Devil in Leaf Nation

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 11:42 AM

He's not overpaid, he's a very good hockey player with great deal of value right now with teams like MTL, EDM, VAN and T.O asking or supposedly asking about him. If you factor in his contract, age and potential health related problems..... i think his value maybe more as a trade chip than a Devil!

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#56 jsonnabend

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 06:35 PM

I agree that he's streaky, and unfortunately because of his hepatitis, it could make him more streaky...heptatitis basically wrecks the immune system and will affect him for years...one cold could basically mean a week or 2 straight of him looking lost on the ice, like he did many times this past season

If true, that's a pretty interesting bit of information. Any cite to support it? I'd be curious to read up on the issue.

- Jeff
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#57 elias2600

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 08:53 PM

hey guess what all you whiners? Elias as a first season captain led our team in scoring, led our team to an Atlantic Division title, and led us to the second round of the playoffs. What a bad year, huh? I don't think so.

Everyone here who is complaining about Elias' season, is basically mad that he didnt put up huge numbers like Heatley or Briere. That's what it comes down to when you say he isnt worth a 6mil cap hit. Get over that connection, because the truth is individual stats don't win you the cup.
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#58 NJDevs4978

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 09:24 PM

Yes Elias is 'too' much of a team guy sometimes for his own good. And he'll probably have his bad weeks regardless because of the immune system.

That said, what gets overlooked about Elias is last year was his first full season in THREE years. He had a great half-year coming off the hepatitis but his last full NHL season was before the lockout.

Don't discount his talent in any case. Even in a down playoffs compared to last year, he still managed to average a point a game.

Edited by Hasan4978, 15 July 2007 - 09:25 PM.

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#59 Jerrydevil

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 10:03 PM

I was critical of Elias' play last season, too, regardless of the captaincy. He seemed to be without instincts out there a lot of nights. But that said, I'm glad he's here, and I'm glad he's the captain ... until Parise is ready. I'm glad Madden isn't the captain. I'm a believer that one of your best players should be the captain, and Madden ain't that.
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#60 puckrock

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 12:20 AM

I think the reason for everyone's harsh critiquing of Elias this past season was because we all expected him to perform the way he did in the Rangers playoff series, for the whole year. I'm not gonna lie, I was one of those people. I understand the disappointment, but to say he's overpaid and that he's 'not worth it' is ludicrous. He'll be back this season.
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