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#21 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 04:31 PM

The Mets could have really used Scott Kazmir down the stretch.


That's old news and happened under a past regime.
We can't keep bringing that one up every time things don't go our way.
Yes, it was an awful deal, but we can't harp on that one forever.
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Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
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It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#22 nmigliore

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 05:50 PM

I gagged when I saw all of those quotes earlier in the week. But anyone that's watched the team all year could see it was true in this team's play and demeanor, the quotes merely confirmed it. The only good thing from this is that a lot of the unearned arrogance will be knocked out of this team now. The question is how many of them will be around to redeem themselves next year?

The most helpless feeling I've had as a sports fan since the Devils missing the playoffs as defending champs in '96...but this is even five times worse than that. That wasn't the worst collapse in sports history, hell missing the playoffs at 86 points was something of anomaly. This is just an absolute disaster and heads have to roll. The only question is how many.


What bothers me too is that the Cubs are in the playoffs. Now do they really deserve to be? They only won 83 games as of today and they clinched their division with 3 games to spare.. talk about easiest division in the MLB? I hate it when teams like this make it.. I hope they get swept in the 1st round. No way a team with barely over 80 wins deserves to be in the post-season.. And yes you can see an awkwardness in the Mets play all season long. I dont think they would've gotten by the 1st round anyway, they really didn't deserve to be in the playoffs with such a TERRIBLE home record..

And if you want my true opinion on who I think is going to win the NL.. well then I'll say it - Phillies. They are just unbeatable right now, I used to think the Padres were the ones who were gonna get to the World Series but I'm seriously doubting them.. My NL Pick: Phillies , My AL Pick: Yankees.. yes they will beat Boston.. I know those picks seem probably hilarious coming from a big Mets fan but I truly believe thats gonna be the World Series

Edited by nmigliore, 30 September 2007 - 05:55 PM.

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#23 El Diablo

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 07:14 PM

Im a firm believer in the "there's no free lunch" approach in life- - today it came to roost at my doorstep -- for every silent and vocal prayer I made during that game 6 in 1986 -- today - not 2000 - was the day where I settled my tab. Tomorrow I change gears to hockey -- but clearly tonight -the NY Mets need a cleansing starting with the manager. :koolaid:

Edited by El Diablo, 30 September 2007 - 09:07 PM.

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#24 LetsGoDevils

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 08:19 PM

BEHOLD, the Beast from the East: Philadelphia Phillies :rofl: :joker:

Now its going to be all Phillies, all day radio, TV, papers...Ugh!
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#25 Derek21

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 09:49 PM

I don't watch the Mets that often, but I did tonight. Jose Reyes is clearly injured or fatigued. I don't think Rickey Henderson has anything to do with that.

Randolph should go, but the real person at fault is Minaya. It was a sad bit of irony for Mets fans when Matt Lindstrom struck out 3 in the 7th. Minaya never should've gotten Castillo, and Shawn Green should've never started in right.



It's called loafing. Something Reyes and butt buddy Milledge know well. Maybe if they didn't show up the Marlins they'd be playing another game tomorrow.


Castillo was a good pickup and played well. Green had a great September but he's not hitting many out anymore.


The Mets just look like they lost their confidence. All the errors and mental mistakes. They looked panicked.


I normally don't do this but I wrote a little piece on this collapse:

http://www.hittingback.com/?cat=6


There was the continued lack of hustle from a lifeless Jose Reyes who along with not running out balls or getting to balls in the field he normally would became undisciplined at the plate hitting just .214 with 15 strikeouts the final month. The 24 year-old shortstop who bats leadoff and is the sparkplug suddenly heard boos.

If you want to point to what was wrong with this team down the stretch, look no further. After a great first half in which he hit .307 with a .387 OBP, Reyes dropped to .255 and .321 OBP in the second half.

Most baffling was the sharp contrast in the one category hes better than anyone else at. Speed. After swiping a season high 23 bases for the month of August, he only stole five more the rest of the way while being caught almost as many times (4).

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#26 Derek21

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 09:52 PM

Met$ are getting in.

Book it.

When Matt friggin Chico is baffling your lineup the day before the end of the season in a big game, it is truly over.

It is Philadelphia. It's a lock it WONT happen.



You posted this before what I told you about the Marlins being ticked off. I had a hunch they'd play awfully hard after that.
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#27 Derek21

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 09:56 PM

P.S. Those quotes are embarrassing. You'd think they'd be a little more determined after coming so close last year. Wow. That's the definition of needing major changes.
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#28 metallidevils

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 10:31 PM

I still think this is ridiculous though.. I mean how can they lose? How can Glavine fvck up so big? I guess this means hes gone? I don't want him back in a NY uni next year! Go home you used up sh!t.. Theres one HUGE reason of why hockey is the best sport - because you can come out with grit to win; you cant do that in baseball. You may be pumped up but if your pitcher isn't throwing strikes, you can't do anything about it.. Its gonna be a long off-season..

My Moves
- Dont fire Willie JUST yet.. give him at LEAST another couple months into the 2008 season.
- Dont resign LoDuca. His temper has costed this team and hes terrible as a catcher, hes only DECENT at blocking balls.. Castro > LoDuca no question.
- Dont resign Glavine. I really loved his season, I thought he did excellent.. But when he needed to step up most, he proved he's nothing more than a used-up pitcher who can't handle a big game. Now I understand why he never pitched Game 6 or 7 of last season's NLCS.. Sorry Tommy but after this terrible outting I doubt you will be wanted back in Queens.. Either retire or go to Atlanta.. But please Minaya, dont resign Tom.
- NEW BULLPEN.. People like Schoewenweis and Smith are decent, let them stay.. People like Mota and Heilman and Feliciano need to GO.
- Resign Castillo, hes WAY more valuable than Valentin in my opinion.. let Valentin retire or sign with another team!
- IF Glavine departs we need a big name pitcher.. I haven't looked over any big-name starters who are UFAs but I really think we need an Ace.. And knowing Minaya from how he speaks in interviews, he is all about pitching and defense. So if Glavine goes, its HUGE to try and sign a young Ace pitcher..

Those are the my briefs


Willie needs to go. He has no character and had no idea how to manage a bullpen.
I like LoDuca, at least he has heart.
Glavine better not be back in a Mets uniform.
Schoeneweis decent? Feliciano terrible? Are you kidding me? Feliciano was our best reliever this season, and Schoeneweis is probably our worst, after mota...are you kidding about that statement?
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#29 metallidevils

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 10:34 PM

It's called loafing. Something Reyes and butt buddy Milledge know well. Maybe if they didn't show up the Marlins they'd be playing another game tomorrow.
Castillo was a good pickup and played well. Green had a great September but he's not hitting many out anymore.
The Mets just look like they lost their confidence. All the errors and mental mistakes. They looked panicked.
I normally don't do this but I wrote a little piece on this collapse:

http://www.hittingback.com/?cat=6
There was the continued lack of hustle from a lifeless Jose Reyes who along with not running out balls or getting to balls in the field he normally would became undisciplined at the plate hitting just .214 with 15 strikeouts the final month. The 24 year-old shortstop who bats leadoff and is the sparkplug suddenly heard boos.

If you want to point to what was wrong with this team down the stretch, look no further. After a great first half in which he hit .307 with a .387 OBP, Reyes dropped to .255 and .321 OBP in the second half.

Most baffling was the sharp contrast in the one category hes better than anyone else at. Speed. After swiping a season high 23 bases for the month of August, he only stole five more the rest of the way while being caught almost as many times (4).


Reyes sucked the last month of the season, but it's ridiculous to give most of the blame to him. There was a period of like 10 games where the Mets scored like 7+ runs in every game, and lost a decent chunk of them. Also, how many games did Wagner or the rest of the pen blow? Added offense from Reyes would have been nice, but scoring wasn't the problem in September, it was the bullpen.
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#30 NJDevs26

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 10:41 PM

My Moves
- Dont fire Willie JUST yet.. give him at LEAST another couple months into the 2008 season.
- Dont resign LoDuca. His temper has costed this team and hes terrible as a catcher, hes only DECENT at blocking balls.. Castro > LoDuca no question.
- Dont resign Glavine. I really loved his season, I thought he did excellent.. But when he needed to step up most, he proved he's nothing more than a used-up pitcher who can't handle a big game. Now I understand why he never pitched Game 6 or 7 of last season's NLCS.. Sorry Tommy but after this terrible outting I doubt you will be wanted back in Queens.. Either retire or go to Atlanta.. But please Minaya, dont resign Tom.
- NEW BULLPEN.. People like Schoewenweis and Smith are decent, let them stay.. People like Mota and Heilman and Feliciano need to GO.
- Resign Castillo, hes WAY more valuable than Valentin in my opinion.. let Valentin retire or sign with another team!
- IF Glavine departs we need a big name pitcher.. I haven't looked over any big-name starters who are UFAs but I really think we need an Ace.. And knowing Minaya from how he speaks in interviews, he is all about pitching and defense. So if Glavine goes, its HUGE to try and sign a young Ace pitcher..

Those are the my briefs


I like Castro but he's not an every-day catcher. When you're a backup and miss time two straight Septembers that doesn't speak well for durability. Neither catcher is very good defensively so deciding who to retain or sign is just a question of whether you want offense or defense at the position. Glavine's option is his choice unfortunately although I think he'll decline it and either go to Atlanta or retire. Heilman and Feliciano are two of the three top pitchers in the pen, they're going nowhere.
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#31 metallidevils

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 10:43 PM

calling schoeneweis decent and saying feliciano needs to go just blows my mind.

glavine can be bought out for 3 million. i hope that happens
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#32 Senators Advocate

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 11:19 PM

THE PHILLIES WIN THE DIVISION!!! AND THE METS MISS THE PLAYOFFS!!! WHAT A FANTASTIC DAY!! :boogie: :dance: :boogie: :dance: :boogie: :dance:


:yay:


BEHOLD, the Beast from the East: Philadelphia Phillies :rofl: :joker:

Now its going to be all Phillies, all day radio, TV, papers...Ugh!


You'll still see/hear more on the freaking Iggles.
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#33 LOTCB

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 11:23 PM

:yay:
You'll still see/hear more on the freaking Iggles.



You really show you are a Sens fan with that tasteless avatar, and the quote. Hope it makes you feel better.
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“We’re more competitive. We’ve got a lot of character now. We have leadership now. That’s important to me when you’re adding young players every year"

 

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#34 Triumph

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 11:35 PM

The Mets should -

fire Minaya. But since they won't do that..

Their problem was that none of their starters could go consistently deep into games. Perez and Maine have control problems and generate high pitch counts, and the rest of the staff was old or Mike Pelfrey, who might be the unluckiest pitcher in the league. This led to them overusing the bullpen, which blew the bullpen out. They need an ace for this staff. I don't know who's available, but if I'm Omar, I'm looking into trading for Johan Santana this off-season, dangling Fernando Martinez out there as bait. The Mets desperately need that ace. Pedro Martinez ain't it.

Get rid of LoDuca, he is finished. Get rid of Castillo, since Gotay is better. Get rid of Shawn Green, since Lastings Milledge is better.

Hope that Duaner Sanchez gets healthy (is that even possible?) and find a 7th inning guy.

The Phillies pitching staff is still pathetic and that team is still cheap, so they're no worry for the Mets in the long-term. The Braves are a greater concern, but the Mets can out-spend them too.
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#35 LetsGoDevils

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 02:31 AM

Senators Advocate

You really show you are a Sens fan with that tasteless avatar, and the quote. Hope it makes you feel better.

Amen <_<
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#36 Devilish34

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 05:32 AM

Met$ are getting in.
Book it.
It is Philadelphia. It's a lock it WONT happen.


Ouch!!!
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#37 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 07:33 AM

The Mets should -

fire Minaya. But since they won't do that..

Their problem was that none of their starters could go consistently deep into games. Perez and Maine have control problems and generate high pitch counts, and the rest of the staff was old or Mike Pelfrey, who might be the unluckiest pitcher in the league. This led to them overusing the bullpen, which blew the bullpen out. They need an ace for this staff. I don't know who's available, but if I'm Omar, I'm looking into trading for Johan Santana this off-season, dangling Fernando Martinez out there as bait. The Mets desperately need that ace. Pedro Martinez ain't it.

Get rid of LoDuca, he is finished. Get rid of Castillo, since Gotay is better. Get rid of Shawn Green, since Lastings Milledge is better.

Hope that Duaner Sanchez gets healthy (is that even possible?) and find a 7th inning guy.

The Phillies pitching staff is still pathetic and that team is still cheap, so they're no worry for the Mets in the long-term. The Braves are a greater concern, but the Mets can out-spend them too.



Did you catch SNY Sportsnite? They interviewed a few of the players (LoDuca, Beltran, Wagner, Wright), and played some clips from Randolph and Minaya. Wright was clearly the most distraught, LoDuca was both stunned and pissed, Wagner was very matter-of-fact, and Beltran was pretty much emotionless. But Minaya's reaction was the one that got me the most. This isn't word-for-word, but at one point he basically said "Well, we did win 88 games, and we were in first place most of the season." Hey, a$$hole: This isn't the time to accentuate the positive. Your team just etched a permanent place in the most embarassing sports moments archives. Whenever some MLB team is falling apart at the end of the season and in danger of losing their hold on a division lead or a wild card spot, despite having held a sizable lead late in the season, the first team that will now be mentioned will be the 2007 New York Mets. So stop patting yourself on the back for five seconds, if that's at all possible Mr. Minaya, and realize that you will forever be associated with the worst late-season collapse in MLB history. I wasn't for the Mets firing Minaya, and I still don't think I am, but I'm definitely a lot more receptive to anyone who wants to argue that case.

Another Minaya complaint: stop bringing in retreads and castoffs to pitch important games, who have little to no chance of winning. Jose Lima? Brian Lawrence? Dave Williams? Aaron Sele? Yeah, occasionally you might get lucky with a Jorge Sosa who will have a good stretch, but as Sosa showed, these guys eventually show the baseball world why no one really wanted these guys to begin with.

LoDuca had a very good September, but there's no way I'd sign a catcher long-term who's in his mid-30s. Catchers tend to break down quickly at that age. Either give Castro a shot at starting 75% or more of the games or bring in someone else.

I get the feeling Minaya's going to go hard after Santana...which is great, but if they don't re-sign him that's going to be a major disaster. Hopefully Milledge will be part of that deal or ANY deal, because even though this kid does have some talent, he has "punk" and "troublemaker" written all over him. Anybody notice how Reyes was doing a lot better before Milledge came up? Milledge seems like the kind of guy who will never get it, who can quickly tarnish any shining moment he might have by doing something stupid and assinine immediately after. He'll have some good moments on the field, but in the dugout and clubhouse he'll always be a detriment. He'll never do enough on the field to offset that. Green did have a nice April and September, but was completely useless in between. He needs to go. Same with Alou. Enough with the old guys...yes, some of them can still perform, but they just can't stay healthy.

On the "trading for a big pitcher" front, I have no interest in bringing Willlis here. Let someone else overpay the next Barry Zito. If he could be gotten cheap, I guess I'd be curious to see what Petersen might be able to do with him.

Someone needs to have a sit-down with Reyes, and in a hurry. This kid has read one too many press columns and clearly thinks he can thrive on his talents alone. Even the Met fanbase has turned on him, which when you consider how popular this kid's been since the day he came up (even before that) is as bad as it gets, and shows how far Reyes is falling out of favor.

Duaner Sanchez? If that's the only egg the Mets have to put in their bullpen basket then next year's already looking pretty bleak.

The Phillies have coughed up money before (Jim Thome, Kevin Millwood, Billy Wagner) and they will again. They have a great offense. They will always have a problem trying to lure top-flight starting pitchers...when your ballpark's a bandbox, the only way you can build a staff is from within.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 01 October 2007 - 07:37 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#38 Nature's Minister

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 09:44 AM

What's even worse is the Mets have the highest payroll in the NL by far. When you have that kind of cash to work with, having no starting pitching or relief is pretty hard to find acceptable. Just goes to show you can't buy championships.
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#39 LOTCB

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 10:13 AM

Hey..I was wrong...call me out if that makes you feel all better...Im wrong hundreds of times a week...especially about sports.

I'm listening to WFAN right now...man even as a Yankees fan this is hard to listen to..

Edited by LOTCB, 01 October 2007 - 10:14 AM.

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Tim Murray (Buffalo Sabres GM) Quotes:  'It's Easy To Spend Money' "I’ve said at the start that if you don’t want to be here we’ll make it happen'

“We’re more competitive. We’ve got a lot of character now. We have leadership now. That’s important to me when you’re adding young players every year"

 

Truly, The Anti-Regier


#40 metallidevils

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 10:39 AM

alou hit like .450 down the stretch, i'll take him on the team next year with open arms.
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