54 replies to this topic

[nmadd]

A great play by the Yankees.

Now when Rivera and Posada complain about not having Torre, the Yanks can say, "Oh, but we offered him another contract and he turned it down." Yankees clearly don't want him back with that offer; a one year deal where you have to make the World Series.

I hope it's Mattingly. Whoever it is, it is going to be a tough job filling this HOFers shoes....

...that is assuming the Yanks don't change their mind and get Torre for next year. Certainly wouldn't be the first time.

[Derek21]

Yay!

The Yankees need a new direction and they were never going to get it with Torre.

Yay!!!!!! Because it's great to treat a manager who got them in the postseason every year like dirt.

4 world championships
6 pennants
10 division titles


fvck the Tampa contingent. They have destroyed this franchise. Ever since this team got its own network, it's gotten worse and worse. This franchise just became a laughingstock today. Their credibility has been non-existant for a while. Who else takes over a week and lets one of the all-time best Yankee managers hang in limbo. Disgusting. I'm glad Joe said no thanks.

With no good alternatives to replace Torre, this is just another black day in the Bronx.

Edited by Derek21, 18 October 2007 - 08:40 PM.

[Derek21]

My contribution to the idiots in Tampa that don't appreciate stuff and think it's their GOD GIVEN RIGHT to win every year:




Clown Management 101



Brian Cashman (Clown 1): George, what do you want to do? We lost again in the first round.

George Steinwhiner (Clown 2): He’s out! The reign of Torre overshadowing me is over.

Hank Steinbrenner (Clown 3): Uh. Uh. Uh.

Hal Steinbrenner (Clown 4): What he said.

[thefiestygoat]

Cashman has done a great job the past couple of years since he got full control. He isn't a clown. I don't see how Torre got treated like dirt. He is fortunate he got an offer worth millions of dollars. I'd love to get that kind of money. Its time to move on. There shouldn't be any hard feelings either way.

[Derek21]

A great job? Doing what? Listening to our idiotic Boss yell, "GET THIS GUY. GET THAT GUY."

Who cares about chemistry anyway?


Carl Pavano. Kevin Brown. Randy Johnson. Kyle Farn$worth. Felix Heredia (for Kenny Lofton). Jason Giambi. Kei Igawa. Rondell White. Gary Sheffield.


I won't include Alex Rodriguez only cause he produced in their precious regular season. But btw has come up smaller than anyone since he's gotten here in October. It was all Joe's fault.


Randy Levine btw is Scrooge. He is the biggest problem with this organization and will continue to be.



If you can't see how Torre got disrespected fiesty, you're not reading between the lines. Go read my satire article. The answer was provided.

[thefiestygoat]

A great job? Doing what? Listening to our idiotic Boss yell, "GET THIS GUY. GET THAT GUY."

Who cares about chemistry anyway?
Carl Pavano. Kevin Brown. Randy Johnson. Kyle Farn$worth. Felix Heredia (for Kenny Lofton). Jason Giambi. Kei Igawa. Rondell White. Gary Sheffield.
I won't include Alex Rodriguez only cause he produced in their precious regular season. But btw has come up smaller than anyone since he's gotten here in October. It was all Joe's fault.
Randy Levine btw is Scrooge. He is the biggest problem with this organization and will continue to be.
If you can't see how Torre got disrespected fiesty, you're not reading between the lines. Go read my satire article. The answer was provided.

Wow, I am shocked, normally we agree on most things, but I have to disagree here. Cashman has done a great job in full control. He stopped the entire "get this guy" and has focused on building from within. He has put important people into the loop to help this team get younger and more effective. I guess Robinson Cano, Melky Cabrera, Chien-Ming Wang, Joba Chamberlain, and Phil Hughes mean nothing because of a couple of overpriced guys that were signed before he had full control. Also, lets take a guy like Sheffield, he turned that around into a great trade - Humberto Sanchez, Kevin Whelan and Anthony Claggett mean nothing. Cashman has done a great job and doesn't deserve being referred to as a clown. If anything I fault him for not removing Torre years ago. Cashman has rebuilt this team and I think we will see the full benefits of this in a couple of years.

I understand there is going to be a lot of fan frustration. I don't fault anyone for being upset. Torre provided us with some great years that we will never forget. However, all good things must come to an end, and when a manager is no longer effective, he must go. I love Torre and wish him well. I understand that he would have been taking a 33% paycut or something like that, but if he really wanted to manage, its easy to say yes to a paycut when you have millions of dollars already and are going to get some more.

I also feel we need to show Steinbrenner more respect. This guys is old and his better days are behind him, but we are so lucky to have had an owner who cared so passionately about winning. What more can you ask for? Plus, I give him credit for backing off the past couple of years as he knew his time to cool off had come. I still don't know what to expect with Hal and Hank, I guess we have to wait and see.

[Triumph]

As usual, Derek is taking one thing and saying it is related to a bunch of other things, when it isn't.

Joe Torre isn't a good manager. The thing is, most managers aren't good managers, so Torre can't be faulted for that. He has, however, ruined one reliever's arm a year - Tanyon Sturtze, Paul Quantrill, Tom Gordon, Scott Proctor, Luis Vizcaino - the Yankees had to make specific rules and MAKE THEM PUBLIC for Torre not to ruin Joba Chamberlain. The guy is terrible at bullpen management, just terrible.

The offer the Yankees presented isn't fair? It's still DOUBLE what any other manager is making! If you are going to call Joe Torre responsible for winning 4 Championships (a ludicrous notion), then don't you have to fault him for the playoff losses too? Doesn't that make a bit of sense?

I don't blame Torre for walking away - he's done with the whole charade. You could see it on his face during the ALDS. He's done. He's had a Hall of Fame career, he dealt with Steinbrenner for 12 years, he's through managing a baseball team altogether.

How anyone is getting on Brian Cashman is beyond me; since he's regained control of the franchise, the team has made only positive moves. From the brilliant switching of Joba Chamberlain to the bullpen to the underrated Gary Sheffield and Scott Proctor deals, Cashman is consistently getting value from his and the franchise's mistakes. I see only positive things going forward - the only problem is that there aren't enough hitting prospects.

Edited by Triumph, 18 October 2007 - 11:06 PM.

[Nature's Minister]

Larussa wouldn't be coming here. Maybe Trey Hillman, but probably Girardi or Mattingly.

And Cashman has done an excellent job. The minors are absolutely teeming with quality prospects. While they spent the last several years stocking up on pitching, between the last draft and crop of international signees, there are more than a few potentially great hitters in the system now. There's also the very real possibility they turn a guy like Horne or Garcia into a positional player.

Edited by Nature's Minister, 19 October 2007 - 05:47 AM.

[NJDevs4978]

I'm amused by all this talk about how the Yankees need incentive-based contracts now. It isn't the NFL, you just can't have incentive-based contracts.

But if they're going to be consistent, I'd love to see them try it with A-Rod and Bora$ - 'We'll pay you $26 million annually, but we'll give you a $3 million bonus for every postseason round you lead the team to', see how fast Bora$ laughs them out of the room. Plus it's an insult to Torre to even suggest the reason they haven't been winning is because he wasn't motivated enough.

As for Cashman it's very hard to say how good a job he's doing. Most of the FA's they've signed have been disasters or dissapointments but George always gets his paws involved, to what extent nobody really knows unless they're a fly on the wall in the room. They do have minor league talent where it counts - pitching - and he does deserve credit for that. You can always buy hitters if you're the Yankees, they don't really need position player prospects.

Edited by Hasan4978, 19 October 2007 - 07:02 AM.

[PeteyNice]

Yay!!!!!! Because it's great to treat a manager who got them in the postseason every year like dirt.

4 world championships
6 pennants
10 division titles
fvck the Tampa contingent. They have destroyed this franchise. Ever since this team got its own network, it's gotten worse and worse. This franchise just became a laughingstock today. Their credibility has been non-existant for a while. Who else takes over a week and lets one of the all-time best Yankee managers hang in limbo. Disgusting. I'm glad Joe said no thanks.

With no good alternatives to replace Torre, this is just another black day in the Bronx.

So he gets credit for the wins but no blame for the losses? Since the 2004 debacle the team not looked the same in the playoffs. That has to fall on Torre. Yankees leadership is in flux with George turning it over to his kids. That just happened so there is a lot of stuff going on. I completely disagree about "treating him like dirt". They paid him $7M this season and the contract they offered him he would still be the highest paid manager in baseball, the second year would have vested if the team was successful. I have no problem tying the manager's salary to how well the team performs. I think it is a good idea.

I appreciate everything Torre did but this isn't college football where coaches stay forever. It is time to move on. The Yankees define success by how they do in the playoffs and they have been embarrassing the last two years. I would have fired him last year and signed Pinella. Sadly that kind of option is not available this time around. I just hope they go outside the organization. They need to change the culture and bringing in someone with ties to the old guard won't do that,

[Nature's Minister]

The problem with basing a GM off of free agent signings is that no one (at least as far as pitching) of any real quality hits the market very often anymore. Pavano and Jaret Wright, although painfully inadequate, were the best available pitchers.

Cashman has been very, very good at aggressively drafting and developing young pitching talent. That is undeniable. There are three guys who can definitely contribute next year (Joba, Hughes, Kennedy) and another five or six with top of the rotation potential who need a bit more time in the minors (Horne, Betances, Sanchez, Garcia, Brackman, Marquez, etc.) before stepping up to the big show.

He's also made some really favorable trades over the last couple years. Abreu for junk, one potentially great and two pretty decent pitchers for Sheffield, Vizcaino and Ohlendorf for the oft injured Randy Johnson and so on.

Even if 2008 is a disaster for the Yankees, the future looks pretty darn bright. Especially considering that if everyone who can walk, walks, the Yankees will have a ton of first round and supplemental picks in one of the deeper drafts in recent memory. Every team has to rebuild eventually.

And I don't think anyone can argue that Torre has been the same manager he was ever since Zimmer and Stottlemeyer left. And I still haven't gotten over not bunting on Schilling during the infamous bloody sock game.

Edited by Nature's Minister, 19 October 2007 - 08:03 AM.

[harpua19]

The man has balls

This is truly the end of an era even of Jorge and Mariano stay Will AROD?
Even if they all do, its gonna be hard for mattingly or anyone else that takes over to lead this team

[Jerrydevil]

Just the $5M base salary would still make him the highest paid manager in baseball by a wide margin. It was a fair offer. One the Yankees had to make to someone with Torre's longevity with the team.

Hey, look, it's Randy "Brillo-head" Levine!

It's a somewhat insulting and a spineless move IMO, because they clearly don't want Torre, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to make a change. Make the change, though. Be a man, not a weasel, and Randy Levine is a weasel.

Edited by Jerrydevil, 19 October 2007 - 09:58 AM.

[Bulletproof]

OH MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS ...

...OF ALL THE DRAMATIC THINGS I'VE EVER SEEN!!!

Nice callback....

[Jerrydevil]

But if they're going to be consistent, I'd love to see them try it with A-Rod and Bora$ - 'We'll pay you $26 million annually, but we'll give you a $3 million bonus for every postseason round you lead the team to', see how fast Bora$ laughs them out of the room. Plus it's an insult to Torre to even suggest the reason they haven't been winning is because he wasn't motivated enough.

Good post. The whole incentive thing shows that a bunch of buffoons are running the show ... a bunch of clowns kissing a senile, old man's ass. Good theater, though.

Edited by Jerrydevil, 19 October 2007 - 10:13 AM.

[PeteyNice]

Hey, look, it's Randy "Brillo-head" Levine!

It's a somewhat insulting and a spineless move IMO, because they clearly don't want Torre, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to make a change. Make the change, though. Be a man, not a weasel, and Randy Levine is a weasel.

Insulting? If someone wants to "insult" me by offering to make me the highest paid person in my profession and give my lucrative incentives based on performance I would like to be insulted! Please insult me like that! The only people who think it was "insulting" are people who don't like the Yankees, beat writers who need to write about *something* with the team out and Derek. Who, let's admit, is just odd .

But if they're going to be consistent, I'd love to see them try it with A-Rod and Bora$ - 'We'll pay you $26 million annually, but we'll give you a $3 million bonus for every postseason round you lead the team to', see how fast Bora$ laughs them out of the room. Plus it's an insult to Torre to even suggest the reason they haven't been winning is because he wasn't motivated enough.

It is already in his contract. Like many good players A-Rod gets a bonus for winning the LCS MVP or the WS MVP. He doesn't get that money if the team doesn't get there.

[Jerrydevil]

Insulting? If someone wants to "insult" me by offering to make me the highest paid person in my profession and give my lucrative incentives based on performance I would like to be insulted! Please insult me like that!

Give the Yankees brass credit. There's a lot of fans like you who fell for their ploy to make Torre look like a greedy bastard.

Nothing wrong with wanting a new manager. And the Yankees want a new manager, but don't have the stones to say, "We're going in a new direction."

[Triumph]

Give the Yankees brass credit. There's a lot of fans like you who fell for their ploy to make Torre look like a greedy bastard.

Nothing wrong with wanting a new manager. And the Yankees want a new manager, but don't have the stones to say, "We're going in a new direction."

The problem is that Mariano Rivera and Jorge Posada have expressed concern over Torre not coming back, and that being a major influence in where they will sign. Otherwise I don't think you see this nonsense.

[Jerrydevil]

The problem is that Mariano Rivera and Jorge Posada have expressed concern over Torre not coming back, and that being a major influence in where they will sign. Otherwise I don't think you see this nonsense.

Triumph, the Yankees don't want Torre. It's as simple as that.

[LOTCB]

Triumph, the Yankees don't want Torre. It's as simple as that.

And Torre isn't a good manager either, he sucks...glad he is gone. let's bring in a proven winner like Valentine, so he can disguise himself in the dugout and be a pompou$ a$$.

Edited by LOTCB, 19 October 2007 - 11:20 AM.