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The Official Trade Brian Gionta thread


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#61 Triumph

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 09:35 AM

Don:

why can't you just make that point without digging through months old threads?

Anyway, there's a long response, but I'm off to the Giants' parade.
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#62 squishyx

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 09:53 AM

Getting this thread back on track - I'm looking at similar players who've got contracts expiring in 08-09.

Glen Murray (RW) - eh, Glen has 330 career goals (yes, really), but he's a power forward type nearing the end. If somehow Bruins management suffered a stroke and wanted to trade us Milan Lucic and Murray for Gionta..

Erik Cole (RW) - 11 goals so far this year. Carolina's stupid but they are not this stupid. Too bad.

Alex Tanguay (LW) - Tanguay brings the kind of skill set we'd be looking for from the wing - he's a playmaking winger. Still, Tanguay and Zubrus have a somewhat similar skill set, so they'd have to be kept apart - this would make New Jersey's lines inflexible. I don't know if Alex is playing center these days, either.

Martin Havlat (LW, RW) - please. I have loved the idea of this guy since I read about him in THN's draft issue in 1999 and it kills me that Ottawa took him one selection before New Jersey took Ari Ahonen. He is disgustingly talented and is exactly the kind of gamble New Jersey needs to take, considering their less-than-stellar drafts of the last 5 years.

Milan Hedjuk (RW) - Hedjuk is signed for one more year than Gionta, so there'd have to be some extra added. I've never liked Hedjuk, though. Then again I never really liked Gionta.

Jonathan Cheechoo (RW) - Wow, he's signed through 2010/11, I had no idea. But he's been so bad this year that San Jose has to consider selling as high as possible.

And that's about it. Fringe candidates include Pavol Demitra, Brad Richards, and Tony Amonte.


I just cant honestly tell if this is a joke or not.

Gionta has scored more points then everyone on your non "fringe" list except Tanguay (who makes 25% more money) and Hejduk who makes 1/10th of a mil less and has a whopping 3 more points. Gionta isn't tearing up the scoring sheet but he is on pace to finish with 50 points. YOU were the one who said you were be perfectly happy with Elias, our 6mil player scoring 65 points in a season but Gio the 4m scoring 50 is atrocious and must be traded for other players who at best are equally preforming per paycheck?

Havlat might be more gifted then Gio but he cant stay healthy, in 7 years the closest he came to a full season was 73 games (his first), and more importantly over the last 3 seasons he has played 108 games out of about 200. Yea, fat load of good he will do us in half our playoff games. This post is ridiculous.
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#63 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 09:54 AM

Exactly. Gionta was coming off scoring almost a goal per game and now we are giving up on him after half a bad season. We don't give up on Elias after half a bad season and make "Official Trade Threads". Brian certainly needs to make changes to his game, but I'm not going to toss him away for peanuts because of it.

Players don't go from "skilled" to "unskilled" at the snap of one's fingers.


Do you really believe Gionta is highly skilled. I think he does have a unique set of skills, one is in tight on the goaltender. He also has a nice grit aspect which seems to have tapered off in the recent years. Gionta would be an excellent addition to a talented team where he can log minutes on a solid PP in front of the net. He would also be great on a team where there is a #1 play making center. SJ would b my first guess, Detroit second. He just doesn't fit the bill on this Devils team nor their team in the near future. He reminds me so much of Oleg Saprykin for Calgary during their cup run just he has a better knack in tight.
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#64 Devilstail

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 10:17 AM

OMG I thought this was a Ranger thread at fist with all the crying to trade players. You should be ashamed of yourself. Look how many shootouts Gionta has won for us he is a valued player you don't just threw him out because of a dry streak, if that was the case half the team would be gone.
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#65 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 10:43 AM

I like Gionta a lot. I think, point-wise, this is a little closer to, if not slightly lower than, what was expected. I don't see why he's being singled out when the whole team is having a weak offensive year.

Yes, he scored 48 goals a couple of years ago, so he can put the puck in the net. He spent a lot of time hurt last year, and to me, he seems tentative to jump back into his old style. That may be a by-product from his injuries. I still find him valuable. It would be nice if one of the coaches could sit him down with some video tape of him in 2006 and some video of him now (throwing the puck from the blue line, etc) and try to at least figure the situation out. But that is most likely more of an offseason job.

Now for an interesting statistic brought up last night during the game.... When Brian Gionta and Brian Rafalski were both on the ice in his big year, the team was a +83. Shows how the right players can affect guys like Gionta. Once again, puck moving defenseman.

If Lou traded him to a team where he hooked up with someone like that, he'd look like a moron when Gionta hit 35-40 goals the next season, because whoever the Devils bring in would 'underachieve' in comparison.

Edited by Devil Dan 56, 05 February 2008 - 10:45 AM.

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#66 Devils731

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 10:49 AM

2 games ago I thought Gionta played great. He drove to the net and didn't take weak shots from the blue line for no reason. Last night we had a lot more weak shots with no chance of rebounds or scoring and less moving the feet and driving the net. Gionta, to be most effective, needs to skate hard and always work at getting close to the net. This year he seems very content to patrol the boards and rely on his shot, which is average at best. If Gionta gets back to what he does best he will be effective. Right now, the way he is approaching the offensive zone, he is a good checking winger and not the goal getter that he can be.

Edited by Devils731, 05 February 2008 - 10:49 AM.

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#67 Ivan

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 11:15 AM

Last night either Keith Jones or Englebom pointed out that its mostly the fact that no one on our defense can muster up good deflectable shots, which is what Gionta thrives on. 80% of his goals are dirty, they come from tip ins, deflections and rebounds. If the defense cant put good shots on net he is clearly not going to be effective. Plus i think its also the fact that opposition caught on his tendencies to go in front of the net and collect garbage there, so they cover him much better now. The problem is in the lack of offense from our defense and not in our wingers. I wouldnt trade Gionta for another winger, it would have to be for a D-man that can actually muster up some good accurate shots and can move the puck. Having said that, I really dont think we will be able to get the kind of player that we would want in return for Gionta.
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#68 GA Devil

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 11:32 AM

Put me on the bandwagon to NOT trade Gio -- barely. I think that when (if) the Devils are in the playoffs, Gio will come through with timely plays. I don't have anything concrete to base that on, just a hunch.

However, if the Devils were to trade Gio for Cheechoo, that would be a decent move. I could see both players coming alive with the change in scenery.

A name I did not see while scanning this thread is Andrew Ladd. Would people think Ladd could contribute to this Devils team?
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#69 Devilish34

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 11:43 AM

I really don't see the point in trading him esp if he is as horrible as some of you think he'd only fetch a Nathans and Diet Coke.
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#70 NJDevs4978

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 12:10 PM

Exactly. Gionta was coming off scoring almost a goal per game and now we are giving up on him after half a bad season. We don't give up on Elias after half a bad season and make "Official Trade Threads". Brian certainly needs to make changes to his game, but I'm not going to toss him away for peanuts because of it.

Players don't go from "skilled" to "unskilled" at the snap of one's fingers.


I don't know if there was an 'official' trade Elias thread (and his no-trade half precludes it anyway) but over the last year and a half there were about as many trade Elias posts as there are people at the Giants parade today :P

But it's what people do around here, like Dew said - Zajac had a bad few weeks trade him, Gionta's had a bad few weeks trade him too. Trade Parise (just getting out of a slump) for Dion Phaneuf while we're at it. And yeah it's always been like that but lately it's just gotten even more ridiculous.

Edited by Hasan4978, 05 February 2008 - 12:16 PM.

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#71 elias2600

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 12:39 PM

people like trades, they like speculating. The idea of trades is fun and exciting. It gives this board a purpose, to discuss and to entertain its users with fantasies of exciting trade possibilities (along with other devil-related threads). It's alright to post in here that you don't think we should trade X player, but for all these people to come in and say that this kind of thread shouldn't be started at all is just nonsense. Most of this thread has been very entertaining to me, I've enjoyed reading ideas people have come up with and comparisons of players and playing styles.
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#72 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 03:34 PM

people like trades, they like speculating. The idea of trades is fun and exciting. It gives this board a purpose, to discuss and to entertain its users with fantasies of exciting trade possibilities (along with other devil-related threads). It's alright to post in here that you don't think we should trade X player, but for all these people to come in and say that this kind of thread shouldn't be started at all is just nonsense. Most of this thread has been very entertaining to me, I've enjoyed reading ideas people have come up with and comparisons of players and playing styles.


Message boards are not for enjoyment! They are for serious discussion! The point is to repeat the same point over and over while someone else repeats the exact opposite view over and over, until someone passes out from fatigue or admits that the other is right and therefore superior...

NO AGREE WITH ME OR I WILL REPEAT IT.
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#73 Triumph

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 03:37 PM

I just cant honestly tell if this is a joke or not.

Gionta has scored more points then everyone on your non "fringe" list except Tanguay (who makes 25% more money) and Hejduk who makes 1/10th of a mil less and has a whopping 3 more points. Gionta isn't tearing up the scoring sheet but he is on pace to finish with 50 points. YOU were the one who said you were be perfectly happy with Elias, our 6mil player scoring 65 points in a season but Gio the 4m scoring 50 is atrocious and must be traded for other players who at best are equally preforming per paycheck?

Havlat might be more gifted then Gio but he cant stay healthy, in 7 years the closest he came to a full season was 73 games (his first), and more importantly over the last 3 seasons he has played 108 games out of about 200. Yea, fat load of good he will do us in half our playoff games. This post is ridiculous.


The whole point is to get players who more adequately fit the setup the Devils have got now. Points aren't the only basis - Gionta does little else but score goals. He can penalty kill (so can just about everyone though), and he's good on shootouts, but he gets crushed along the boards and can't pass the puck worth a damn. Plus, he's on the first power play unit without fail and the power play runs through him often - he's going to get juicy setups. I recognize there's a chicken-and-egg factor here - still, Gionta's top end with goals is 30 with the team as constituted, and he's not making enough plays otherwise.

Elias is now playing center which is a far more valuable position, and has picked up his scoring a great deal. Gionta will too, eventually, but he has trade value (unlike Elias, who had none), and it's worth seeing if someone bites.

How is Havlat going to miss half the playoff games? He will miss all or none, most likely - what an asinine point. My point is that the Devils' Stanley Cup chances for this season and next season are not tremendous (they will certainly not be the favorite in either year) - so that they should take a chance on constructing the best possible team.

We'll see - maybe Gionta needs another playoffs in New Jersey to prove his worth. Unfortunately by that time his trade value will be gone.

Edited by Triumph, 05 February 2008 - 03:42 PM.

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#74 RowdyFan42

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 03:44 PM

Message boards are not for enjoyment! They are for serious discussion! The point is to repeat the same point over and over while someone else repeats the exact opposite view over and over, until someone passes out from fatigue or admits that the other is right and therefore superior...

NO AGREE WITH ME OR I WILL REPEAT IT.

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#75 NJDevs4978

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 03:56 PM

people like trades, they like speculating. The idea of trades is fun and exciting. It gives this board a purpose, to discuss and to entertain its users with fantasies of exciting trade possibilities (along with other devil-related threads). It's alright to post in here that you don't think we should trade X player, but for all these people to come in and say that this kind of thread shouldn't be started at all is just nonsense. Most of this thread has been very entertaining to me, I've enjoyed reading ideas people have come up with and comparisons of players and playing styles.


It's not the trade threads themselves that are annoying it's the reasons for them, having a trade thread every time someone has a few bad weeks is beyond hair-triggerism (if that's even a word). If we traded every player that went into an extended slump we'd have nobody left on the team.

Okay if some writer puts some rumor in the paper there's a reason to discuss it. (N)Єverson, Єklund (2.3% accurate) (2.3% accurate) and nhlline or whatever that site is we can laugh at. But just to say 'oh let's trade player X' because he hasn't done much for a few weeks is silly.

And it's not to get on Tri - at least he provides a somewhat realistic who and what for - this is just a cumulative effect of seeing several of these types of threads already this season.

Edited by Hasan4978, 05 February 2008 - 03:59 PM.

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#76 Triumph

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 04:01 PM

It's not the trade threads themselves that are annoying it's the reasons for them, having a trade thread every time someone has a few bad weeks is beyond hair-triggerism (if that's even a word). If we traded every player that went into an extended slump we'd have nobody left on the team.

Okay if some writer puts some rumor in the paper there's a reason to discuss it. (N)Єverson, Єklund (2.3% accurate) (2.3% accurate) and nhlline or whatever that site is we can laugh at. But just to say 'oh let's trade player X' because he hasn't done much for a few weeks is silly. And it's not to get on Tri, this is just a cumulative effect of seeing several of these types of threads already this season.


I didn't start this thread because Gionta is in an extended slump and had he scored a goal, I would've started one anyway.

My point is that Gionta, even if he gets hot (and he will) doesn't fit the current needs of the team. He's a valuable player, but he'd be more valuable to another team.
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#77 MantaRay

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 04:22 PM

Get Gio a decent center and he is back to being a 30 goal scorer. We did not replace Gomez and we are paying for it.
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#78 Devils731

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 04:26 PM

Get Gio a decent center and he is back to being a 30 goal scorer. We did not replace Gomez and we are paying for it.


I think it's more a lack of a defenseman who can get wrist shots near the net on the PP.
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#79 '7'

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 04:53 PM

I'm for it only if it's Gionta for Havlat, I'd figure we'd have to give up a little more to get Havlat despite the injury risk.

He's fast, as good a pure goal scorer as Gionta will ever be, and a quality playmaker as well. Seems obvious to me.
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#80 Triumph

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 04:58 PM

Get Gio a decent center and he is back to being a 30 goal scorer. We did not replace Gomez and we are paying for it.


Elias has been just fine as a center - I'd be shocked if he played elsewhere for the rest of the season at least.

Gionta should be a 22-28 goal scorer without a Gomez type of player. If he requires a complementary center, it's better to just get rid of him, because that center isn't coming any time soon. Best to get a winger who can help his linemates as well as score goals himself.
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