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Lou and Sutter are delusional


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#241 UnderDogX

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 08:09 PM

When you are constantly good enough to have a crappy draft spot then there are only three things you can really do to keep your team a top team (and by top team I don't mean a consistent one and done team in the playoffs) you can either lose until you get better draft picks, go out and supplement your lineup with FA's (which we don't seem to do very well), or simply keep your top guys....

the fact is we aren't doing any of those things...sure Lou is making some good moves getting unknown FA like Oduya but compare that to him picking up Madden and Rafalski who were big parts of getting a Cup or two...it's not a matter of Lou being good or great, at least not to me, its really more about him not being able to pull off what he used to be able to...the issue as seen in this thread can really be debated to no end but you can't really deny that he does seem to have lost a step...my point in all of this is we don't have a great team...as fans we want a great team...we can point to any number of reasons (crappy draft spots and all that) but the point of a GM is to work around it...build a great team given the circumstances you are handed...sure we are spoiled but it's Lou's genius that spoiled us
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#242 Triumph

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 08:40 PM

Then why even bother drafting him if you're just going to trade him the next year? It's a wasted asset; prospect goalies do not have much value and Ahonen wouldn't have ever gotten even a first-rounder back.

Lou just got too worried about having goalies in the system after the expansion drafts and the one percent chance he would have to replace Marty if he went UFA.


1%? there was a far, far greater chance. it's very easy to say this now, in hindsight.
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#243 '7'

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 10:14 PM

There was never much of a chance Brodeur would leave, he always said he wanted to remain a Devil and there wasn't a chance we weren't going to ante up for him.

The Ahonen pick was idiotic, it wasn't good draft but we needed anything but goaltending at that point.

Come to think of it, that was a terrible draft for us all around. Andre Lakos, Brett Clouthier, Teemu Kesa, Scott Cameron, Chris Hartsburg. The only decent pick was Commodore, and he didn't develop for us and is turning into a mediocre journeyman

Edited by '7', 06 March 2008 - 10:17 PM.

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#244 devilsfan26

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 10:30 PM

:blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:

Devils lose, Sutter crazy, Devils win, Sutter crazy

Devils lose, Lou crazy, Devils win, Lou crazy

Devils lose, Devils no talent, Devils win, Devils have no talent

:blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:

Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

The GM apparently has lost it, the coach doesn't know what he is doing, and the team doesn't have much talent yet they're winning so much. Marty has been great but he isn't an entire team of players so it isn't fair to the GM, coach, or other players to just attribute everything to Marty. Look at how Luongo had problems in Florida because his team stunk in front of him but reading this thread I would think a great goalie wins entire seasons single handedly regardless of the team in front of him.

It's ridiculous to disparage almost the entire organization in the face of all this success.


I agree 100%. Nice to see some sensibility for a change. Sometimes I think the only thing that would stop people from complaining is winning the Cup, and even then there'd probably be people upset with having the last pick in the first round.
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#245 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 11:46 PM

I don't know that he hasn't gotten any better. I also don't know that it matters.

A) Of course a player like Nittel is going to get better - he's big and his peak is likely to be late

B) However, the knocks on him have always been skating and defense. I'm rather skeptical a player can seriously improve his skating. Defense, yes, but I'm not sure that the German league is the best place to learn it.

Regardless, Nittel is going to have to be a 30 goal scorer in the NHL to be worth it, and even then he's a break-even proposition. Someone might take a flyer on him, but it will not be New Jersey. My guess is that Nittel makes a guaranteed 6 figure salary in Germany and isn't going to come back to the States unless he gets a one way deal, which is unlikely. After all, Christian Dube has been dominating the Swiss leagues for 10 years now.


6`3 2300 pound goal scorers who play with an edge are the type I would take a gamble on. If not just for a training camp offer, if he doen't like the AHL then go back to europe.
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#246 msweet

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 07:59 AM

POD!!!



I agree 100%. Nice to see some sensibility for a change. Sometimes I think the only thing that would stop people from complaining is winning the Cup, and even then there'd probably be people upset with having the last pick in the first round.



once again....You are misreading what I have written. I love this team as much as anyone, and my remarks are not about disparaging the team, they are one family member, challenging another to be better. If I were on a Ranger's board and someone wrote similar thing about my beloved Devils, I'd eviscerate them. My criticism is entirely constructive and meant to better us...as told to other family members.. not outsiders.

In Lou I trust... see my Avatar.

And they are winning... In the regular season for sure.. and that's because of Marty... in Lou's own words... the only measure of success for us is to win the Cup.

My criticism is all about doing what it takes to win the Cup.... and management has not.
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#247 Devilish34

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 08:19 AM

once again....You are misreading what I have written. I love this team as much as anyone, and my remarks are not about disparaging the team, they are one family member, challenging another to be better. If I were on a Ranger's board and someone wrote similar thing about my beloved Devils, I'd eviscerate them. My criticism is entirely constructive and meant to better us...as told to other family members.. not outsiders.

In Lou I trust... see my Avatar.

And they are winning... In the regular season for sure.. and that's because of Marty... in Lou's own words... the only measure of success for us is to win the Cup.

My criticism is all about doing what it takes to win the Cup.... and management has not.


I know and understand what you are saying my POD comment was solely based on over all board mentality.
Not your opinions or views :)
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#248 Pepperkorn

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 02:43 PM

My criticism is all about doing what it takes to win the Cup.... and management has not.



What can they/could they have been doing? I haven't seen it. Even with Ahonen -- when he was great trade bait - that was the year suddenly EVERYONE had the best goalie on earth -- MAN even Eche was considered hot stuff in Philthy. There was this MASSIVE glut in the market - and there still is really.

I dont think Lou has been chuckling like Steve Martin in the Jerk thinking he's all slick and stuff
"Hey guess what! You're our eighth customer today - you won a free oven mitt! I'll go get it for ya....
Yeah, I'm back. Uh huh. Yeah, they're going to be here for a while. Don't worry, I've rigged it."

Seriously what the hell? You can say Conte sucks - I just don't see what else could be being done here. Maybe we could pick up Tony Amonte :doh1:

Edited by Pepperkorn, 07 March 2008 - 02:44 PM.

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#249 msweet

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 07:33 AM

Anyone still think I was wrong?
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#250 Devils731

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 07:48 AM

Anyone still think I was wrong?


Yes. This has been the best course of action for the team. There were not any moves that slam dunk should have been made that were not. You're delusional if you think a move needed to be made because it would have looked like a package similar to Zajac, Clarkson, Corrente and a 1st to get Hossa to shore up this years scoring problems. This team is very well positioned for the next 3 seasons, just like it was supposed to be.
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#251 squishyx

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 08:33 AM

Anyone still think I was wrong?

Yes, now more then ever. Team's lose, sometimes they loose is streaks, sometimes really great teams loose a lot of games they shouldn't. There are a half dozen examples of this kind of string of games all season. If anything we could use the reality check so we don't coast into the playoffs.
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#252 Devilish34

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 08:58 AM

I'll take a loosing streak now and give them time to pull their heads from their arses
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#253 Pepperkorn

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 09:58 AM

Man who'd EVER dream I'd think squishy was right, over msweet.

That doesn't mean the Devils aren;t sort of disappointing me - it's just there was nothing to be done this year. :noclue:

I'm embarrassed how little support we give the team too. No wonder they play with the combined attitude of a loser
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#254 theamazingtiny

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 10:14 AM

Anyone still think I was wrong?

Sadly, no.
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#255 El Diablo

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 10:23 AM

I'm embarrassed how little support we give the team too. No wonder they play with the combined attitude of a loser


Team has no heart - or balls PK that is the saddest part for me. :evilcry:
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#256 Triumph

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 10:26 AM

Team has no heart - or balls PK that is the saddest part for me. :evilcry:


of course 'heart' in this context means 'winning games'
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#257 squishyx

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 10:30 AM

Team has no heart - or balls PK that is the saddest part for me. :evilcry:

This team is all heart no talent. (well very little talent). And it has us still very well within reach of the conference lead. We are a team of Rudy's, half the players on this team people have written off as career minor leaguers or spare parts defenseman, and maybe they are right but its heart that ha carried us this far, and that overrated guy between the pipes who only does well with a pair of allstar defenseman in front of him :rolleyes:

I'd take this team over anyone else in the league, we have character, alot of playoff experience and a tradition of winning.

Edited by squishyx, 26 March 2008 - 10:31 AM.

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#258 halfsharkalligatorhalfman

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 10:39 AM

Anyone still think I was wrong?


You're certainly wrong that you think Lou and Sutter are delusional. Both are total realists (or Sutter could be argued to be a pessimist), its what makes them so effective.

Lou's cold calculating nature is what prevented us from overpaying for Souray for example. Its also going to ensure we don't sign Zajac to a 13 year deal. I think Lou's unhappy with where the team is right now, and I think Sutter's CONSTANTLY unhappy with how the team's playing. There were some people on the board who were delusional, but emotions seem to be swinging back and forth.

Its frustrating to see a team with such a low ceiling in action, but its still a threat to win every game it plays. I don't expect them to win the cup, but I don't want Lou to sacrifice long term flexibility for a crazy risky move that only has a 1% chance of working. The team is solid, and has a lot of parts to work with next year if we fall short.
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#259 El Diablo

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 10:51 AM

of course 'heart' in this context means 'winning games'

Sometimes ... sometimes it means to score a tying goal and sometimes it means to lose with a message. Last week the Cuban national u-23 team played a soccer game with 10 players on the field because over 7 starters and subs defected the night before. They played 90 minutes a man down and LOST -- but they showed balls and HEART. That is what Im talking about Triumph.
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#260 Devils731

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 11:04 AM

Sometimes ... sometimes it means to score a tying goal and sometimes it means to lose with a message. Last week the Cuban national u-23 team played a soccer game with 10 players on the field because over 7 starters and subs defected the night before. They played 90 minutes a man down and LOST -- but they showed balls and HEART. That is what Im talking about Triumph.


I don't know, I feel this team has lots of heart. There are a bunch of guys on defense that maybe aren't that great but seem to me to be playing their hearts out. For example, Brookbank was horrific last night but he was giving it his all in my eyes. The Devils also played hard all evening even after having a really marginal call take away a goal from them, that says heart to me as well.
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Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

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