41 replies to this topic

[$$BigTime$$]

VV played in 3 games and was +3 for the playoffs

Greene played in 2 games and -1 for the playoffs

Brookbank played in 0 playoff games.

So the guy who played the most and performed the best in the playoffs was sitting behind the other 2?

I understand VV played games in the playoffs, but you missed my point. Greene was Sutter's First Choice to play against the Rags series. VV sat the first two games. VV then became an option when we went down 2 games to none.

For a guy who signed last summer, we all thought he was much more than the role he had last year. There was a reason why he was in Sutter's dog house.

[Jdub]

I think Vishnevski is pretty good and I like Andy Greene.. but its not about liking a player..

Vishnevski would have decent trade value, The only problem with having him is he would be 3rd on our "At home" list. Also I don't think him and Oduya would be a bad pairing.

[Devils731]

I understand VV played games in the playoffs, but you missed my point. Greene was Sutter's First Choice to play against the Rags series. VV sat the first two games. VV then became an option when we went down 2 games to none.

For a guy who signed last summer, we all thought he was much more than the role he had last year. There was a reason why he was in Sutter's dog house.

So why wasn't VV in his doghouse the other 69 games in the regular season he played? I get your point but Sutter always goes with the hot hand and I think it was pretty obvious the Devils would need offense in the Rangers series so he hoped Greene would actually do something since VV's role is not to provide offense. VV was obviously a more preferred choice than Brookbank and Greene last season, despite Greene playing over VV for 2 playoff games, that was a matchup play, not a preference for Greene.

[Jdub]

any chance Scott Stevens pulls a Brett Farve and comes back???

That would solve all issues.

['7']

I would do something like Gionta and Vishnevski out to Edmonton for Steve Staios and a draft pick. Oilers were supposedly major players in the Hossa sweepstakes so maybe they're willing to take on salary.

then we can go out and sign Markus Naslund.

[SatansDevils]

any chance Scott Stevens pulls a Brett Farve and comes back???

That would solve all issues.

Never happen and Brett Farve said it was just a "rumor" and he is not coming back.

I would love to see Stevens comeback but soon enough I believe he will be one of the Devils coaches on the bench in the near future.

[MantaRay]

I would hate to lose VV, he is the only D-Man that teams HAVE to watch out for. I think Larry can help him player better positionally. Greene just looked lost in the playoffs.

As far as Bergfors, Lou is very high on him and I believe not only will he be on the roster, but will have a big impact on our offense.

[Jdub]

Lou LOVES Bergfors... Remember he is still very young alot of these young european players develope pretty late

[empulse27]

Does anyone realize you are attempting to trade Gionta and Vishnevski after one of their worst career years? A trade involving Vishnevski would probably only bring back at-best a fourth rounder. Gionta and a very high draft pick would probably only get us a #4 defenseman at best.

We don't have much room to move so Vishnevski will either stay or get put on waivers and Gionta will either stay or get traded for someone we won't be too happy about. Don't expect too much for these two, their stock is low.

[nmigliore]

Why would we trade our most physical defensemen? I say keep VV, personally.

If VV doesn't go from our blue line to their blue line just to make a hit, ill be happy with him.. Salvador is a more smarter hitter than VV.

[MantaRay]

I think hope we keep them both.

[ghdi]

I don't think Lou does anything until the trade deadline at the earliest, unless he can swoop in and pull something great off like a trade for Bouwmeester considering he's got Florida by the balls right now and is an unsigned RFA.

I'm pretty shocked that someone hasnt thrown an offer sheet his way yet. If it really is contentious with him down there, it could get interesting.

We have a few assets that could be moved, but unless its something really impactful, I don't see us adding anyone else. If Lou does anything between now and training camp, its probably salary dump.

Edited by ghdi, 03 July 2008 - 11:27 AM.

[$$BigTime$$]

I would be shocked if LOU is done for the offseason. The way we lost to the Rangers in the playoffs, LOU stated that there would be changes and a shake-up. If you think signing Rolston and Holik is the shake-up think again. The defense one of the worst performances in the playoffs i have seen since the Ottawa series back a few years.

If signing Salvador is the answer good luck. We need more on D. A bunch of #6-#7 D-guy we have too many.

Let me count. VV, Mottau, Brookbank, Andy Greene, Fraser, maybe Corrente - So you are talking almost 6 guys for 1 spot .. way to many.

Our D- Ranks #1-Martin, #2- Oduya, #3-?(Trade coming), #4- Salvador, #5 Colin White - #6- Mottau

I agree we are prob done on O. Rolston gives us flexibility with the 2 TOP lines. Something we didn't have last yea because Zajac regressed as our #2 center.


LOU is not done in my eyes. It's a good start, but we still need to cut some dead weight!

[DevilinLA]

At the end of the season and the playoffs VV was not an option for Sutter. Andy Greene played over VV at the start of the Ranger series. What does that tell you? VV came here to be a top 4 pairing D-guy, not a #6 or reserve D guy. We have plenty of reserve D guys for that role. We need a good pairing D-guy with Salvador and VV aint that guy.

I understand VV played games in the playoffs, but you missed my point. Greene was Sutter's First Choice to play against the Rags series. VV sat the first two games. VV then became an option when we went down 2 games to none.

For a guy who signed last summer, we all thought he was much more than the role he had last year. There was a reason why he was in Sutter's dog house.

I think your way off on this one.
VV played most of the season while Andy was riding the bench, up to the trade deadline when all-of-a sudden Brooker and Greene became the featured players. Whether that was for trade auditions or merely to evaluate whether these guys had any future w/the team - who knows?

Regardless, comparing Greene and VV is silly, beacuse they bring completely different skill sets as D-men.

VV: brings a unique set of hitting, which we don't quite have in the same capacity anywhere else on the team, even though we have some other physical D-men. Neither White nor Sal fill this void. His down side is of course positioning.

Andy Greene:I'm not sure what this guy brings to the table other than potential, and even that is being questioned at this point. Some say offense, but I don't see it - and we have some of that covered w/Martin, Oduya and Mottau. He's horrible positionally as well, doesn't take the body, and has a tendenecy to put the puck in his own net. He was given a ridiculous amount of chances last season to turn it around by Sutter (who seemed to believe in him) but couldn't make it happen.


Conclusion - I don't see any concrete evidence proving that Sutter favors Greene over VV for next years team. Now if a big name like Jay Bow comes into place in a deal - all bets are off. But as it stands now Greene is still a liability, with a set of skills that we already have.

I'll ask this, when a player like Sean Avery is on the ice, and you have only the choice between the 2 - who do you want taking care of Marty VV or Green?

Edited by DevilinLA, 03 July 2008 - 02:59 PM.

[NJDevs4978]

Does anyone realize you are attempting to trade Gionta and Vishnevski after one of their worst career years? A trade involving Vishnevski would probably only bring back at-best a fourth rounder. Gionta and a very high draft pick would probably only get us a #4 defenseman at best.

We don't have much room to move so Vishnevski will either stay or get put on waivers and Gionta will either stay or get traded for someone we won't be too happy about. Don't expect too much for these two, their stock is low.

I don't get the rationale for trading Gionta anyway, even with Rolston the team's scoring is still average or thereabouts. If you dump Gionta for a pick (and I do think his value is slightly higher than you're portraying), then you basically negate any good the Rolston signing does us. I mean really, trading a 25 goal scorer and signing another 25 goal scorer is a net gain of zero

[maxpower]

I don't get the rationale for trading Gionta anyway, even with Rolston the team's scoring is still average or thereabouts. If you dump Gionta for a pick (and I do think his value is slightly higher than you're portraying), then you basically negate any good the Rolston signing does us. I mean really, trading a 25 goal scorer and signing another 25 goal scorer is a net gain of zero

Gionta has a huge asset. Short term cap space. Atlanta and the Kings have huge problems with the cap. The Kings at least have RFA's, Atlanta doesn't, only one. The Blue Jackets have cap problems, but to a far lesser extent, they'll make the floor, but be close to it. For a team that needs cap money, he is an ideal short term fit. In that you get an actual player, not a shell, that you pay just enough to ensure you make the floor.

Edited by maxpower, 03 July 2008 - 07:50 PM.

[CupChamps3X]

Rupp should be gone.. the 4th line should be Zubrus/Holik/Clarkson..

That opens up a spot on the 3 other lines for guys like Vrana and Bergfors..

Gio has to go and the only way to get rid of Vishnevski is to package him with Gionta.

Theres no way Zubrus is a 4th line player. Were you watching the same games I was this year? Im not trying to hype him up, but I'd like to see what your line combos are where we have 9 guys in front of him that bring it more than he does.

[NJDevs4978]

Gionta has a huge asset. Short term cap space. Atlanta and the Kings have huge problems with the cap. The Kings at least have RFA's, Atlanta doesn't, only one. The Blue Jackets have cap problems, but to a far lesser extent, they'll make the floor, but be close to it. For a team that needs cap money, he is an ideal short term fit. In that you get an actual player, not a shell, that you pay just enough to ensure you make the floor.

What do the Devils need cap space for though, most of the big UFA's are signed anyway? Unless you want to bring in a guy like Pavol Demitra, who's almost as fragile as Martin Havlat.

[metallidevils]

I honestly don't get it....how do the Rangers have Gomez, Drury, Redden, Naslund, Lundqvist, etc..and still have cap room, and we have....Marty. And Zach, who probably isn't even making superstar money yet.

[maxpower]

What do the Devils need cap space for though, most of the big UFA's are signed anyway? Unless you want to bring in a guy like Pavol Demitra, who's almost as fragile as Martin Havlat.

No, you take something from them, for giving them cap money they need. Just like the Sharks fleeced us of a 1st round pick to get us under the cap.

Let's say a team like Atlanta can't make the floor. And it's perfectly reasonable at this point, because in Waddell's continued greatness, he didn't leave himself enough RFA's to hand out token raises to make the floor. They need to sign players, the pool is emptying, and almost no one wants their money. They can't bring in entry levels to fill their cap to the floor, because they don't get paid enough. They need either 5 or 6 players (depending on the source), who make $10M cap combined.... in order to make the floor.

So, you wait them out, and in the end, if they can't swing a deal with someone else or sign enough players, you offer them someone like Gionta who can help them make the cap, and give them an actual player (not something like Khabi who is going to sit around, force them to carry 3 goalies, and cause a disaster) that they can use for one year as a cap bandaid. Then, you try to fleece them of something young and cheap. Like Enstrom. Sweeten the pot more the Gionta if you have to. It's something that's worth a try. Waddell is an idiot, it's possible. He bought out Zhitnik, for some unknown reason, when they needed salary to make the floor, that's all you need to know about this guy.

LA is pretty bad off in this department, but at least they left themselves some RFA's.

Edited by maxpower, 03 July 2008 - 08:43 PM.