Jump to content

Photo

Defending Brian Gionta


  • Please log in to reply
52 replies to this topic

#21 squishyx

squishyx

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,308 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 08:32 AM

Our offense was terrible last year. Dropping Gio and Getting Rolston is a marginal upgrade at best. Now a simple addition of Rolston on top of our core is a much better yeild.

Gionta > Zubrus by about 10 fold I can't believe that's even an argument.
  • 0

#22 $$BigTime$$

$$BigTime$$

    Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 46 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 08:56 AM

Our offense was terrible last year. Dropping Gio and Getting Rolston is a marginal upgrade at best. Now a simple addition of Rolston on top of our core is a much better yeild.

Gionta > Zubrus by about 10 fold I can't believe that's even an argument.



Again, people are ONLY looking at numbers. Rolston is a HUGE upgrade for this team and upgrades everything from our PP, to HAVING balanced scoring lines. Last year we had two people that played consistently on O Elias with Parise. They were our only scoring threat. After that WHY did our team struggle? Because we had no one to anchor the second line as a legit center. I don't care how good your wingers are, if you have a crappy centerman that can't create your wingers are going to stink.

Zubrus as down as people are on him. He was one of our better players in the playoffs and if he had someone that could put the puck in the net on his line, he would have done well. Zubrus brings size and grit and with Rolstons speed and better playmaking ability it will make a good line w/ Lagenbrunner. What impact did GIO have in the playoffs? i didn't even notice him.

Also why do we need GIO on the PP to tip shots in? We now have either Zubrus and Holik -two big boys that have that role now. Again, GIO can be replaced by other players this year. We still need to bolster our D-core which is more important that keeping GIO IMO.

We have 4 good wingers in Zubrsu, Zajac, Parise, Lagenbrunner for our TOP 2 scoring lines. GIO is expendable.
  • 0

#23 95Crash

95Crash

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,993 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 09:04 AM

Gionta's been with the team long enough now that I'll always think of him as a Devil no matter what. I'd like to see him stick around and get his scoring touch back. We need the goals.

But if he does go, it had better be for someone decent who can make a difference somehwere, somehow, or else I'll be disappointed that we didn't just keep him..
  • 0



#24 CerebralGenesis

CerebralGenesis

    Albany Devil

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 215 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 09:19 AM

Again, people are ONLY looking at numbers. Rolston is a HUGE upgrade for this team and upgrades everything from our PP, to HAVING balanced scoring lines. Last year we had two people that played consistently on O Elias with Parise. They were our only scoring threat. After that WHY did our team struggle? Because we had no one to anchor the second line as a legit center. I don't care how good your wingers are, if you have a crappy centerman that can't create your wingers are going to stink.

Zubrus as down as people are on him. He was one of our better players in the playoffs and if he had someone that could put the puck in the net on his line, he would have done well. Zubrus brings size and grit and with Rolstons speed and better playmaking ability it will make a good line w/ Lagenbrunner. What impact did GIO have in the playoffs? i didn't even notice him.

Also why do we need GIO on the PP to tip shots in? We now have either Zubrus and Holik -two big boys that have that role now. Again, GIO can be replaced by other players this year. We still need to bolster our D-core which is more important that keeping GIO IMO.

We have 4 good wingers in Zubrsu, Zajac, Parise, Lagenbrunner for our TOP 2 scoring lines. GIO is expendable.


Because Zubrus did so much for us as well... Sure we all know he worked his butt off and it was apparent he was working hard, but Gionta has been supported to be a hard worker too. You can't just propose that Zubrus and Rolston will click immediately, if the season starts and you try and it and it busts what then?

With a solid centerman, why not put Gionta on that line and have him being set up for another 40 goals? He is totally reliant on the center and it's been proven that he can score with the right guy setting him up.
  • 0

#25 MantaRay

MantaRay

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,435 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 09:22 AM

Getting Rolston helps us a little bit offensively by simply getting Elias back at wing and having less pressure on Zajac. Gio is a 30+ goal scorer if we had better centers. Last year we suffered without a #1 center we are a little better now.
  • 0
I was wrong to ever doubt the powers of Lou Lamoriello.
IN LOU WE TRUST @Manta04


Posted Image

#26 squishyx

squishyx

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,308 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 09:37 AM

Again, people are ONLY looking at numbers. Rolston is a HUGE upgrade for this team and upgrades everything from our PP, to HAVING balanced scoring lines. Last year we had two people that played consistently on O Elias with Parise. They were our only scoring threat. After that WHY did our team struggle? Because we had no one to anchor the second line as a legit center. I don't care how good your wingers are, if you have a crappy centerman that can't create your wingers are going to stink.

Zubrus as down as people are on him. He was one of our better players in the playoffs and if he had someone that could put the puck in the net on his line, he would have done well. Zubrus brings size and grit and with Rolstons speed and better playmaking ability it will make a good line w/ Lagenbrunner. What impact did GIO have in the playoffs? i didn't even notice him.

Also why do we need GIO on the PP to tip shots in? We now have either Zubrus and Holik -two big boys that have that role now. Again, GIO can be replaced by other players this year. We still need to bolster our D-core which is more important that keeping GIO IMO.

We have 4 good wingers in Zubrsu, Zajac, Parise, Lagenbrunner for our TOP 2 scoring lines. GIO is expendable.

What are you talking about "if he had someone who could put the puck in the net he would have done well" you could say that for anyone! or maybe you mean like Ovechkin when he had his career years? And who might that scorer be? if you haven't noticed Gio has had FOUR straight 20g+ year seasons (not to mention that near 50g fluke) Quick, name a another Devil other then Elias who has done that. Gio scored a 15 more points then Zubrus this year when he supposedly "had a bad year" well what does that say for Zub? And how are you going to judge Gio for having one goal in the playoffs when Zubrus had one bloody assist! Yea there may very well be an expendable top 6 forward on this team you are just looking at the wrong guy.

Besides that the return on Gio + picks is going to be a 3-4 Defensman (yay theres a void we have to fill, right?), NOT a 1-2 like we need. For that to happen throw in Zajac and a prospect and then we are slashing at our youth and down 2 top 6 forwards.
  • 0

#27 Deek_1969

Deek_1969

    Rookie Devil

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 328 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 10:03 AM

The cliche still applies, "you got to give up something to get something". Teams are not going to take Gio and Lou is not going to trade Gio for the hell of it. All teams want to make their team better whether it's with skilled players and/or the salary cap. There has to be a fit for both teams to make a trade, i.e. Sykora for Friesen and Tverdovsky. Sometimes the trade is good for both and sometimes not.


WINNER!

Noone can say Gio doesn't hustle. But we need to add a puck mover on D and he is the most logical trade bait. Therefore, if Lou can make it happen I won't bitch about it.
  • 0
[size=5][color=#FF0000]The strong take from the weak and the smart take from the strong.

#28 $$BigTime$$

$$BigTime$$

    Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 46 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 10:41 AM

What are you talking about "if he had someone who could put the puck in the net he would have done well" you could say that for anyone! or maybe you mean like Ovechkin when he had his career years? And who might that scorer be? if you haven't noticed Gio has had FOUR straight 20g+ year seasons (not to mention that near 50g fluke) Quick, name a another Devil other then Elias who has done that. Gio scored a 15 more points then Zubrus this year when he supposedly "had a bad year" well what does that say for Zub? And how are you going to judge Gio for having one goal in the playoffs when Zubrus had one bloody assist! Yea there may very well be an expendable top 6 forward on this team you are just looking at the wrong guy.

Besides that the return on Gio + picks is going to be a 3-4 Defensman (yay theres a void we have to fill, right?), NOT a 1-2 like we need. For that to happen throw in Zajac and a prospect and then we are slashing at our youth and down 2 top 6 forwards.



I understand and you make very good points as well.

I like GIO, but realistically changes still need to be made to this team. If anyone thinks Holik and Rolston are going to be te answers to winning a cup then come on. I think it improves our current roster, but our D is still very suspect. We now have 2 legitamite scoring lines with the addition of Rolston.

I think we can get good value for GIO. I think people are underestimating his worth because their are few teams that are in dire need of O and will overpay to get GIO. If we can get a good young D-guy for GiO, like a Seabrook than do it.

It's a lose -lose keeping GIO..My point is I am tired of OUR FAs walking and we get nothing in return. Gomez, Rafalski, and now possibly GIO. It is a big risk either way to keep GIO why? If he has a great 30+ goal season is LOU going to pay him $5 million+ and you know how FA is and people will overbid and we get nothing. (Also if GIO is having a great year we are not moving him at the Trade D.) On the other hand, If GIO has a crappy year we get crap at the trade deadline to improve this team. Also Oduya will be a FA next year and LOU will concentrate more on signing him.(Big Raise)

Lou has taken the steps in the right direction. If we can get value and improve our Defense for now + the Long haul then yes I say trade GIO. With the current roster and no upgrade to our D do I think we can win the cup, not really. We need a bit more on the blueline to be successful- IMO
I feel with the players added in FA, GIO roles can be filled.
  • 0

#29 peteyvegas

peteyvegas

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,541 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 12:54 PM

GIO'S the team's scorer. Just give him someone who can pass. We got lost the only guy who can pass. Dont blame Gio. I was thrilled when Rolston left because he couldn't pass for Sh!!. Now he can pass? I certainly hope so. And I hope he can pass to Gio because then we'll see him put up numbers again.
  • 0

#30 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,918 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 01:02 PM

lol @ gionta being 10 fold better than zubrus - zubrus does so much more on the ice not reflected on the scoresheet. gionta's entire value is reflected on the score sheet - hooray, so he scored 20 goals. for a player who's 5'5" and isn't a Martin St. Louis level passer, that's a bad season.

if he needs a passer around to make him into a good player, surely the rangers can find a use for him in 2009-10. gionta is a power play specialist who's not that special. he's not an elite-level sniper, and if he's not, and he's not really a guy that opponents have to key on, what's he doing out there, exactly? just goals doesn't cut it - because if you want just goals, bergfors could score 15 in the same role, given gobs of ice time with proven NHL playmakers. lou has consistently avoided this type of player in trade or free agency, but now it turns out he's home-grown one.

trading gionta after his 48 goal season was an impossibility - just as you can't or shouldn't sell low, you can't sell that high either - you risk missing the fact that gionta may well be that good, because no one's going to pay for a 48 goal gionta - or didn't anyone notice he never signed another team's qualifying offer and was only compensated $4 million for that season?

Edited by Triumph, 10 July 2008 - 01:03 PM.

  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#31 squishyx

squishyx

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,308 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 01:19 PM

lol @ gionta being 10 fold better than zubrus - zubrus does so much more on the ice not reflected on the scoresheet. gionta's entire value is reflected on the score sheet - hooray, so he scored 20 goals. for a player who's 5'5" and isn't a Martin St. Louis level passer, that's a bad season.

So your argument here is that only Parise had a good season because was the only one who scored more then Gio? Context is everything and something your posts often lack. What a superficial BS argument too, "zubrus does things not reflected on the score sheet so he is better then gionta durrr". Here let me do the same thing, Gionta does a whole bunch of great intangible things that don't show up on a score sheet. Im not going to list them, or attempt to describe them, or try to validate them in some way..no i will just say it because that's my argument and things I say are true. Wow, actually I guess that is a lot easier then adding to the conversation at hand.

But ya know something your right about one thing, Gionta isn't a 48g scorer and he isn't as good as one. And I'm pretty sure those other 29 GM's out there now this is a 20g year guy and as I said before they aren't going to part with a top 2 defensman to get him. Doesn't help us to lose the 2nd best guy on the team in terms of goals last year, and it doesn't help them. So great we can trade him and add to our pretty array of #4 defenseman while our scoring stays idle from last year and we wonder why we cant win a game when we give up 2 or more goals.

ps. I'm eagerly awaiting you amazingly vague description of what makes Zubrus so special that could easily have any other "role" player on any team substituted in for the same effect in a piss port attempt to justify why he is better then Gionta.
  • 0

#32 $$BigTime$$

$$BigTime$$

    Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 46 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 02:18 PM

So your argument here is that only Parise had a good season because was the only one who scored more then Gio? Context is everything and something your posts often lack. What a superficial BS argument too, "zubrus does things not reflected on the score sheet so he is better then gionta durrr". Here let me do the same thing, Gionta does a whole bunch of great intangible things that don't show up on a score sheet. Im not going to list them, or attempt to describe them, or try to validate them in some way..no i will just say it because that's my argument and things I say are true. Wow, actually I guess that is a lot easier then adding to the conversation at hand.

But ya know something your right about one thing, Gionta isn't a 48g scorer and he isn't as good as one. And I'm pretty sure those other 29 GM's out there now this is a 20g year guy and as I said before they aren't going to part with a top 2 defensman to get him. Doesn't help us to lose the 2nd best guy on the team in terms of goals last year, and it doesn't help them. So great we can trade him and add to our pretty array of #4 defenseman while our scoring stays idle from last year and we wonder why we cant win a game when we give up 2 or more goals.

ps. I'm eagerly awaiting you amazingly vague description of what makes Zubrus so special that could easily have any other "role" player on any team substituted in for the same effect in a piss port attempt to justify why he is better then Gionta.


I think what he is trying to say is that GIO is not the "impact player" we all made him out to be. Yes, he scored 20+ goals and was third on the team in scoring, but everything aside where was he at the end of the season and playoffs? IMO, Zubrus made big strides at the end of the year and during the playoffs. Even though Zubrus had one assist, he was a beast out there in the playoffs and mainly all devil fans saw a huge difference in his performance.I noticed him mainly every shift. Where was GIO? He needs a center to "raise" his game. Come on that's weak.

With the Addition of Rolston, a more maturing Zajac, a healthly lagenbrunner at the start of the season, and a better season from Zubrus I say yes we can replace the contributions offensively that GIO has made.

If we lose impact players like Elias or Parise then this offense would crumble. That is a fact. If we lose GIO I think others can step up ..no problem.

To say GIO didn't give his all is ridiculous. I think he worked VERY hard, but his work ethic and impact was a non-factor for us and he really went under the radar. Even in the playoffs, its not like the Rangers had their top checking line against GIO to shut him down and he still couldn't produce. I think that is a sign. Trade him now. I definetly don't want to take the RISK of him losing even more value if the season goes on and 25 games in he has 7 goals. What kind of value do you think he will have then? Most Devil fans will be pissed that LOU didn't trade him in the summer. I say he is a proven 20+ goal scorer, so let's trade him with that value he has now.

This is all very funny. Watch GIO have 35+ goals this season and 75 points and you can go tell me how stupid i sounded wanting to trade him LOL! Still I highly doubt it. Trade him now LOU. We need a better Defense.
  • 0

#33 dansz15

dansz15

    Draft Pick

  • Members
  • 12 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 02:38 PM

The way I see it is, Gionta is a very expandable player. He thrives on a playmaker and although he can't create much offense he is a great finisher.



I cannot agree more. Gionta is an excellent player, do not mistake me. However, the Devils do not have a playmaking center that can feed Gionta the passes or set up for his finish like Gomez did. In NJ; especially with a defense-first game style, it is difficult to take a finishing type player and ask for him to fight on his own, espcially with his size. Gio is excellent trade bait. I think he could attract second round pick attention right now, and if he enters free agency will pull in around $5 mil a year. BUT: he will go to a team with a dominating center. He is undoubtibly (I know thats spelled wrong!) a first line right wing, who could be plugged at LW. Imagine him with CBJ with their up and coming play making centers? Or in a place like LA where he can play with Kopitar? Or even Washington with Backstrom and AO. He would be dominating, most likely reaching the 30 goal plateau.

I have been a big fan for almost my whole life. It is not a question of how he skates hard every shift, plays both ways, it is a quesiton of can he produce on his own. He is a workhorse, but right now NJ is not his place. I personally like Gionta's play, but I firmly believe his success is out of NJ, unless Lou decides to scrap the old style game and adopt a more face paced, skilled "New NHL" style. Until he is traded or the Devils change face, Gionta will have similar seasons. Just my 2 cents.
  • 0

#34 squishyx

squishyx

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,308 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 03:02 PM

I think what he is trying to say is that GIO is not the "impact player" we all made him out to be. Yes, he scored 20+ goals and was third on the team in scoring, but everything aside where was he at the end of the season and playoffs? IMO, Zubrus made big strides at the end of the year and during the playoffs. Even though Zubrus had one assist, he was a beast out there in the playoffs and mainly all devil fans saw a huge difference in his performance.I noticed him mainly every shift. Where was GIO? He needs a center to "raise" his game. Come on that's weak.

With the Addition of Rolston, a more maturing Zajac, a healthly lagenbrunner at the start of the season, and a better season from Zubrus I say yes we can replace the contributions offensively that GIO has made.

If we lose impact players like Elias or Parise then this offense would crumble. That is a fact. If we lose GIO I think others can step up ..no problem.

To say GIO didn't give his all is ridiculous. I think he worked VERY hard, but his work ethic and impact was a non-factor for us and he really went under the radar. Even in the playoffs, its not like the Rangers had their top checking line against GIO to shut him down and he still couldn't produce. I think that is a sign. Trade him now. I definetly don't want to take the RISK of him losing even more value if the season goes on and 25 games in he has 7 goals. What kind of value do you think he will have then? Most Devil fans will be pissed that LOU didn't trade him in the summer. I say he is a proven 20+ goal scorer, so let's trade him with that value he has now.

I don't really disagree with any of your points mostly tho I feel as if you could insert many other players names into "Gionta" and it will still be true save Parise, he and Broduer seem to be untouchable. Also things like "zajac is maturing" or "langenbruner is healthy" or "better season from zubrus" is all circumstantial. Zajac could continue his slump, Lagenbruner could never fully recover or get hurt again and Zubrus can continue being a pylon like he was last season. This that and the other thing could happen to any player, it's guesswork at best and for me that not enough to trade a proven goal scorer (with respect to this team not the NHL). Shipping away Gionta and getting Rolston is a lateral move at best in terms of offensive production and not necessary when you can have BOTH. it's not like we are against the cap and need to ditch weight here and if it meant getting a number 1 or 2 D then I would give it more thought but thats not whats coming back so shipping Gio out is going to be a big net loss for us. Listen, Zajac can still have a great maturing year, Zubrus might recover some of his scoring touch, Langenbruner may lead the Devils in scoring, all that can still happen if Gio is on the roster.
  • 0

#35 squishyx

squishyx

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,308 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 03:06 PM

I cannot agree more. Gionta is an excellent player, do not mistake me. However, the Devils do not have a playmaking center that can feed Gionta the passes or set up for his finish like Gomez did. In NJ; especially with a defense-first game style, it is difficult to take a finishing type player and ask for him to fight on his own, espcially with his size. Gio is excellent trade bait. I think he could attract second round pick attention right now, and if he enters free agency will pull in around $5 mil a year. BUT: he will go to a team with a dominating center. He is undoubtibly (I know thats spelled wrong!) a first line right wing, who could be plugged at LW. Imagine him with CBJ with their up and coming play making centers? Or in a place like LA where he can play with Kopitar? Or even Washington with Backstrom and AO. He would be dominating, most likely reaching the 30 goal plateau.

I have been a big fan for almost my whole life. It is not a question of how he skates hard every shift, plays both ways, it is a quesiton of can he produce on his own. He is a workhorse, but right now NJ is not his place. I personally like Gionta's play, but I firmly believe his success is out of NJ, unless Lou decides to scrap the old style game and adopt a more face paced, skilled "New NHL" style. Until he is traded or the Devils change face, Gionta will have similar seasons. Just my 2 cents.

There are a handful and I quite literally mean about 5 or 6 players in the NHL who are dynamic enough to consistently create plays on their own. To hold it against Gio is pretty sad when no one on this team has that ability either. Brilliant moves or flashes of genius 2-3 times a year don't qualify because Brian has had more then his fair share of those. If he needs a center, good news we just signed one and maybe just maybe its worth seeing if their is chemistry there before we try and acquire a 2nd round pick or *another* #3/4 defensman
  • 0

#36 ice dog

ice dog

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,044 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 04:27 PM

i agree with triumph, zubrus is an ox.
he brings a lot of intangibles to the table, and he is a beast down low and along the boards.

thanks for the memories brian, it was great while it lasted...

[jk]

seriously, i'd like to see the devils improve the team and keep gionta.
gionta is super fast, and gives 100% every time he hits the ice. Maybe with Rolston in the mix he will find his finish and bury some of those pucks.

Edited by ice dog, 10 July 2008 - 04:28 PM.

  • 0
"Wendy...I'm home."
-Jack Torrance
Sherry Ross ‏@SherryDarlingNJ
"Little did we know the C on Parise's jersey stood for "C-ya, suckers!" Yes, I was fooled. And it is the collusion vibe that taints it."

#37 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,918 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 07:04 PM

when you make a coherent counter-argument squishy, i will respond. until that time, continue the hand-waving.

edit - here's a hint. consider that a replacement player for gionta doesn't score 0 goals.

Edited by Triumph, 10 July 2008 - 07:17 PM.

  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#38 Gunslinger27

Gunslinger27

    Rookie Devil

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 342 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 07:07 PM

Getting Rolston helps us a little bit offensively by simply getting Elias back at wing and having less pressure on Zajac. Gio is a 30+ goal scorer if we had better centers. Last year we suffered without a #1 center we are a little better now.


I think were OK, with Rolston add some scoring power, plus our D was in the top 5 goals against. I think Gio will have to step up big time.
  • 0
Post

#39 CHICOEATS11

CHICOEATS11

    Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 53 posts

Posted 10 July 2008 - 10:23 PM

I don't know why people keep assuming that those who say Gio should be traded are looking to pick up nothing but a second-rate defenseman. While I don't think his stock is particularly high right now, there are trades that seem lopsided that are made often enough, and Gionta has shown that under some circumstances, he can be a great scorer. While I don't think that's necessarily going to translate into a fantastic trade for us, it's more than can be said about most of our other guys, hence all of the trade talk at all.

Another thing that some people are ignoring is the fact that trading Gio away and picking up a decent puck-moving defenseman could easily make up for the loss of 20 some-odd goals. Improving our breakout is probably the #1 thing that we can do to start to boost our scoring, and so losing Gionta to pick up a defenseman is by no means necessarily taking away from our offense on the whole, so long as a deal brought over someone with at least some skill.
  • 0

#40 Duck Fan

Duck Fan

    Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 31 posts

Posted 11 July 2008 - 01:55 PM

Have you guys heard anything perhaps a rumor with us sending Schneider to your organization? I know you guys need a puck moving defenseman and was wondering if this was true or not?
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users