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Why Do refs hate us?


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#21 nick17112

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 08:58 AM

Every teams fans probably say this at some point through the season. Just have to roll with the calls and play beyond them
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#22 nmigliore

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 09:11 AM

The refs dont hate us (or at least im not concluded to that quite yet), its just how the new NHL is.. constant inconsistent called games penalty-wise.. I saw like 1 or 2 replays last night of Mottau's "cover of the puck" and I dont recall him covering it up, he swiped it out of the crease.. Zubrus did not kick the puck in, he was getting drilled from behind how could he possibly see the puck and kick it in? That said it still hit the post and then hit the goalie..

anyway yeah, inconsistent officiating is what the new NHL is, thats what i believe right now..

Edited by nmigliore, 08 February 2009 - 09:11 AM.

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#23 Beezer34

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 10:11 AM

Anyone who truely believe the refs hate a certain team are dillousional. Some games you get breaks, some games you don't. They are professionals who get paid to do this for a living.


The Devils draw the least amount of penalties in the league. (that's not an opinion, that's a fact)

...meanwhile AO's Capitals & Sid's Penguins continue to draw the most penalties in the league. (comfortably @ #1 & #2) You want to toss it up all to coincidence, be my guest.
The refs hate us for the same reason they hate most small market teams... they don't draw well for the league. (beyond just rev & ratings) The stigma of being trap/boring will also take a long time to go away.

Edited by Beezer34, 08 February 2009 - 10:41 AM.

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#24 Triumph

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 10:48 AM

The Devils draw the least amount of penalties in the league. (that's not an opinion, that's a fact)

...meanwhile AO's Capitals & Sid's Penguins continue to draw the most penalties in the league. (comfortably @ #1 & #2) You want to toss it up all to coincidence, be my guest.
The refs hate us for the same reason they hate most small market teams... they don't draw well for the league. (beyond just rev & ratings) The stigma of being trap/boring will also take a long time to go away.


The Capitals are 5th in the league in most penalties taken and had to kill off 8 minutes of power play basically in a row in the 3rd period last night.

also what the hell are you talking about. the penguins are 4th in the league and the capitals are around 10th. did you do any research before making this statement or jsut figured it had to be true?

Edited by Triumph, 08 February 2009 - 10:50 AM.

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#25 jkrdevil

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 11:22 AM

The Devils draw the least amount of penalties in the league. (that's not an opinion, that's a fact)

...meanwhile AO's Capitals & Sid's Penguins continue to draw the most penalties in the league. (comfortably @ #1 & #2) You want to toss it up all to coincidence, be my guest.
The refs hate us for the same reason they hate most small market teams... they don't draw well for the league. (beyond just rev & ratings) The stigma of being trap/boring will also take a long time to go away.


That is not even close to being true. If you look at it by a per game basis (as to take the factor of more games being played by a team out) San Jose is #1 in the league with 5.74 power plays recieved per game. Montreal is 2nd with 4.69. Pittsburgh ranks tied for 7th in the league with 4.43 pp/g. Washington ranks 17th with 4.24 pp/g. In fact the Caps are tied with Minnesota as far as drawing penalties are concerned. As triumph mentioned the Caps are 4th in the league in times shorthanded per game with 4.80 ts/g. That means on average they have to kill off more penalties per game than they get in PP's.
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#26 Legion15

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 11:53 AM

the league realizes we are a good team and have been for a while and are refusing to legitimize us because we're not a marquee team like detroit, pittsburgh, the ranjerks, etc. We're just not a household name and the rest of the world doesn't recognize us, so the league is trying to suppress us. Sooner or later they're going to have to give us some respect. we're getting the publicity now
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#27 Sickman

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 12:12 PM

The officiating is bad. There is no way around it. Even when the dopes calling the games manage to somehow call the game even and be fair to both teams, they're also probably calling these ridiculous calls that have no place in the sport. Take the Shanahan penalty for example last night. Was there a little hook? No doubt, but so what. Did he stop the King from gaining the zone? Did he completely disrupt that play? I guess he is just supposed to let the guy skate right by him and watch him. What it looks like to me is a sad attempt to try and boost scoring opportunities because the hook was beyond marginal meanwhile Gionta gets his stick ripped from his hands and play just carries on. Who was really denied the scoring opportunity? Don't even get me started with the Elias penalty. That was such a lame ass call that whichever official called it should be suspended or go work for the NBA. Seriously, it is absolutely shameful that call was made in a professional male hockey league.

What it comes down to is that if the refs want to cite infractions on the ice, even if it's against one team more then another, then at least make calls when there is a REAL infraction. All these morons seem to be good at is removing all and any flow from the games and castrating the sport and the players. Elias gets 2 minutes for throwing a clean and basic body check? Fvck off!

Edited by SickMan, 08 February 2009 - 12:14 PM.

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#28 Beezer34

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 12:34 PM

The Capitals are 5th in the league in most penalties taken and had to kill off 8 minutes of power play basically in a row in the 3rd period last night.

also what the hell are you talking about. the penguins are 4th in the league and the capitals are around 10th. did you do any research before making this statement or jsut figured it had to be true?


http://www.nypost.co...vant_153765.htm

"The Devils have enjoyed 178 power plays this season, 30th among 30. The NHL average was 216, as of yesterday, a hefty 21.3 percent more than New Jersey had, while, guess who, Pittsburgh, leads the league with 238."

The Capitals being #2 was said on NHL on the FLY by Jim Van Horne. (after the Nashville game) Fast forward 3 weeks later, Washington is currently 8th. Where is the overall strength of your point? (if the Ovechkin lead Capitals & the Crosby lead Penguins are both top 10 in penalties drawn) Meanwhile the Devils who are dead last in the league, (which conveniently was never challenged by you) continue to get the short end of the stick?!?! And a fan is not supposed to acknowledge it? It seems to me after checking the papers, reading websites, watching hockey games, (Cangelosi said it twice last night) that the rest of the hockey world is acknowledging it. However a fan is simply to sigh and say; *nope sorry, all coincendental on this side of the nut house.*

You want to know if the Devils players are acknowledging it?

"That's 60 more power plays, two full games of man-advantage more than us." -Dainius Zubrus
"What, we don't work hard enough to draw penalties? No." -John Madden
"I have answers, but they're not printable as long as I'm an active player." -Bobby Holik
"Ever since we went west, we've been getting one or two power plays per game. You'd think this group of forwards would draw more power plays. Good thing we're a good 5-on-5 team." -Zach Parise

You want to play beggers blind man, as I said in my prior post... BE MY GUEST! When you just talk to talk, despite an opinion that's felt by a majority... take a seat.

That is not even close to being true if you look at it by a per game basis


I never said anything about per game penalties, or average penalty(s) per game(s), or the basis of the penalty per team. I said the Penguins have the most called penalties with 238. (which was written in the NY Post) The fact that both the Caps & Pens being top 10, and the Devils dead last, really doesn't help your point.

Edited by Beezer34, 08 February 2009 - 03:04 PM.

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#29 Neutral Zone Trap

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 12:58 PM

I've always hated the term "to draw a penalty" IMO that means to deceive the ref by embellishing/diving to get a penalty called against the opposition.
A classic example of this in years past, see Forsberg-Peter. In this modern era, see Savard-Mark. Datsyuk-Pavel. there are many more.

I will take pride that the Devils IMO have never been a team that "draws" penalties. If I was a ref, I would call diving and punish it with a 5 minute major and a game misconduct. I hate diving=cheating.

This goes back to my theory (the evidence is overwhelming IMO) that the 2001 SCF was rigged. The Devils had 29 powerplays to the Avs 47, at the time the Devils had been the least penalized team in the NHL for a good 6-7 years.

Think about it, Like Triumph said, it's all about ratings. Why do you think Detroit has been such a force over the years? sure they are a good team, but when you get powerplays given to you on phantom calls, it helps you. Look at the Bruins, how many times this season have we seen them trailing by a goal with 2 mins or less remaining in the third and they get a phantom powerplay to enable them to tie the game ?

A Bruins-Wings SCF would be a ratings blockbuster for Bettman. The trouble is that there are better teams than those two in each conference that are far more deserving of a SCF matchup, if those two teams are allowed to get a level playing field as far as officiating goes and the Wings/Bruins are not aided by the league with phantom powerplays we'll see who the real (legit) best teams are in the NHL.

It's pretty sad and it's accross all sports, even college football.

Lakers always get the calls, Yankees always get the calls. NE used to but now the Steelers get the calls. In college football USC always gets the calls.
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#30 mouse

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 01:12 PM

I don't buy the conspiracy theory. The quality of officiating is inconsistent at best, but I have seen some bad calls go in our favor as well. Not as many as against us, but still. The problem is bad refs look for the obvious. When a player hits the ice, they assume they have to make a call. How many times have we seen a ref who was out of position call a penalty when someone just fell? If the refs need to see something obvious, divers (Crosby) are going to be rewarded. It's not because the league wants the Pens to win. The only bias in Crosby's favor is that refs are afraid to give him the 5 minute major/misconduct when he dives. We have every right to be proud of the Devils for refusing to dive, and I would be mad if they stopped, but it does hurt us. I just hope we get good refs for the playoffs, though that didn't happen last year.
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#31 SueNJ97

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 01:16 PM

I've always hated the term "to draw a penalty" IMO that means to deceive the ref by embellishing/diving to get a penalty called against the opposition.
A classic example of this in years past, see Forsberg-Peter. In this modern era, see Savard-Mark. Datsyuk-Pavel. there are many more.

I will take pride that the Devils IMO have never been a team that "draws" penalties. If I was a ref, I would call diving and punish it with a 5 minute major and a game misconduct. I hate diving=cheating.

This goes back to my theory (the evidence is overwhelming IMO) that the 2001 SCF was rigged. The Devils had 29 powerplays to the Avs 47, at the time the Devils had been the least penalized team in the NHL for a good 6-7 years.

Think about it, Like Triumph said, it's all about ratings. Why do you think Detroit has been such a force over the years? sure they are a good team, but when you get powerplays given to you on phantom calls, it helps you. Look at the Bruins, how many times this season have we seen them trailing by a goal with 2 mins or less remaining in the third and they get a phantom powerplay to enable them to tie the game ?

A Bruins-Wings SCF would be a ratings blockbuster for Bettman. The trouble is that there are better teams than those two in each conference that are far more deserving of a SCF matchup, if those two teams are allowed to get a level playing field as far as officiating goes and the Wings/Bruins are not aided by the league with phantom powerplays we'll see who the real (legit) best teams are in the NHL.

It's pretty sad and it's accross all sports, even college football.

Lakers always get the calls, Yankees always get the calls. NE used to but now the Steelers get the calls. In college football USC always gets the calls.


Actually, I think the Bruins have been very, very good this year. Although NJ played very well against them and won in OT the last game, do you think the lead they have on the rest of the conference is some sort of a mirage? I agree, there are better teams in the West than the Wings this year, but you make it sound like Bruins suck. They don't. Savard can't possibly dive his way to enough calls to explain this season. I hope if NJ faces them in the playoffs (which would require that both teams win a round or two if things keep up the way they are going) that the Devils don't take the Bruins as lightly as you do.

Has the officiating often been perplexing? Yes. But NJ has at or near the bottom of the league in PP awarded for years now. You somehow thought this would change? The difference may be that they also used to be among the least penalized teams, you rarely saw a period like the second period last night where there was just one after another. However, there was also one after another for the Kings at one point, it was NJ penalty, then an LA penatly, they would switch off and there would be 4-on-4 and it was only a matter of time before somebody connected. Essentially, it was insane - and whichever side connected first, the fans on the other side were bound to be extremely unhappy.

Even Chico - who was sputtering about the officiating - admitted between the 2nd and 3rd that NJ wasn't exactly playing their best. Blame the officiating all you want. The team wasn't all that great.
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#32 Triumph

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 01:23 PM

http://www.nypost.co...vant_153765.htm

"The Devils have enjoyed 178 power plays this season, 30th among 30. The NHL average was 216, as of yesterday, a hefty 21.3 percent more than New Jersey had, while, guess who, Pittsburgh, leads the league with 238."

The Capitals being #2 was said on NHL on the FLY by Jim Van Horne. (after the Nashville game) Fast forward 3 weeks later, Washington is currently 8th. Where is the overall strength of your point? (if the Ovechkin lead Capitals & the Crosby lead Penguins are both top 10 in penalties drawn) Meanwhile the Devils who are dead last in the league, (which conveniently was never challenged by you) continue to get the short end of the stick?!?! And a fan is not supposed to acknowledge it? It seems to me after checking the papers, reading websites, watching hockey games, (Cangelosi said it twice last night) that the rest of the hockey world is acknowledging it. However a fan is simply to sigh and say; *nope sorry, all coincendental on this side of the nut house.*


Not only did I bring it up long before (N)Єverson in this thread, here:

http://www.njdevs.co...o...t=0&start=0

I thought we got to the bottom of why that was the case. The Devils don't dive and they get leads in games. They were 5th in penalty differential over several seasons. Now this year, since they've added penalty machines Holik and Shanahan, things have changed, but in general the Devils have gotten many more power plays than penalties.

Beyond that, I think it's ludicrous to instantly point to referee bias instead of considering things that are more likely, like that having Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, Alex Semin, and so on means a team is likely to draw a lot of penalties because of the offensive skill those players possess. And if it were officials' bias, you'd see a lot less penalties called against the Capitals.

Anyway I see the tinfoil hat crowd is out in this thread. I do think the Devils don't draw any reputation calls and that hurts them, but to claim it's a league-wide bias is totally missing the boat.

Edited by Triumph, 08 February 2009 - 01:29 PM.

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#33 Devs4LIFE

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 01:26 PM

Looks like that (N)Єverson article is getting to everyone, I feel like people are complaining more since that article came out. Looks like (N)Єverson has won the battle.
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#34 NJDevs26

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 01:29 PM

Beyond that, I think it's ludicrous to instantly point to referee bias instead of considering things that are more likely, like that having Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, Alex Semin, and so on means a team is likely to draw a lot of penalties because of the offensive skill those players possess.


And the Devils don't have two of the league's top ten scorers? The Devils have 13 fewer goals than the Caps in one less game, there's no way there should be that much of a disparity.

Yeah we never seem to get a lot of the calls but it's gotten even worse over the last couple years.
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#35 Beezer34

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 01:31 PM

I feel like people are complaining more since that article came out.


...including our own players. :whistling:

And the Devils don't have two of the league's top ten scorers? The Devils have 13 fewer goals than the Caps in one less game, there's no way there should be that much of a disparity.


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#36 dickdastardly

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 02:56 PM

I've always hated the term "to draw a penalty" IMO that means to deceive the ref by embellishing/diving to get a penalty called against the opposition.

Drawing a penalty really means that the offensive player is going to beat you like a rented goalie and the only way to stop it is to commit a penalty. Think of it like basketball. Diving is a penalty. I haven't seen it called in a long time, but have.
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#37 Neutral Zone Trap

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 02:56 PM

Actually, I think the Bruins have been very, very good this year. Although NJ played very well against them and won in OT the last game, do you think the lead they have on the rest of the conference is some sort of a mirage? I agree, there are better teams in the West than the Wings this year, but you make it sound like Bruins suck. They don't. Savard can't possibly dive his way to enough calls to explain this season. I hope if NJ faces them in the playoffs (which would require that both teams win a round or two if things keep up the way they are going) that the Devils don't take the Bruins as lightly as you do.

Has the officiating often been perplexing? Yes. But NJ has at or near the bottom of the league in PP awarded for years now. You somehow thought this would change? The difference may be that they also used to be among the least penalized teams, you rarely saw a period like the second period last night where there was just one after another. However, there was also one after another for the Kings at one point, it was NJ penalty, then an LA penatly, they would switch off and there would be 4-on-4 and it was only a matter of time before somebody connected. Essentially, it was insane - and whichever side connected first, the fans on the other side were bound to be extremely unhappy.

Even Chico - who was sputtering about the officiating - admitted between the 2nd and 3rd that NJ wasn't exactly playing their best. Blame the officiating all you want. The team wasn't all that great.


Sue, I've never said the Bruins suck, they are a good team, but IMO they are nowhere near as good as their record suggests, that's what I'm getting at.
I don't take the Bruins lightly, you have to be careful playing against them because at some point or the other they will get a BS penalty (Rupp/Savard faceoff) and get away with murder (Colin White speared in the neck)

That game should never have reached OT, the Bruins scored very shortly after White got speared and they also scored on the BS powerplay where Rupp got called when Savard dived. All things being equal the Devils win that game 2-1 in regulation.
These extra points (even in losses) inflate the Bruins record, and it's transparent, similar to the Rangers SO record (bring back ties-eliminate the skills game, aka SO)
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#38 NJDevs26

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 03:28 PM

Looks like that (N)Єverson article is getting to everyone, I feel like people are complaining more since that article came out. Looks like (N)Єverson has won the battle.


Well every team's fanbase thinks they get screwed by the refs regardless. The difference is we actually have irrefutable numbers to back it up.

Besides, consider the source. When even (N)Єverson (who normally looks for ways to rip us) notices it why wouldn't everyone else?

Edited by NJDevs26, 08 February 2009 - 03:29 PM.

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#39 DevilinLA

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 07:37 PM

the league realizes we are a good team and have been for a while and are refusing to legitimize us because we're not a marquee team like detroit, pittsburgh, the ranjerks, etc. We're just not a household name and the rest of the world doesn't recognize us, so the league is trying to suppress us. Sooner or later they're going to have to give us some respect. we're getting the publicity now

Inferiority complex much.....

3 Stanley Cups, consistently competitive year after year, and this fanbase still whines like babies that didn't get their bottle.....

Yeah, I said it.

You think Sutter's telling these guys: "Sorry boys, we should have won that game if not for the officiating!"

What do you think he's saying today in prep for tommorrow??????

If this team is good enough the officiating can be overcome, good or bad....
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#40 SueNJ97

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 07:39 PM

Sue, I've never said the Bruins suck, they are a good team, but IMO they are nowhere near as good as their record suggests, that's what I'm getting at.
I don't take the Bruins lightly, you have to be careful playing against them because at some point or the other they will get a BS penalty (Rupp/Savard faceoff) and get away with murder (Colin White speared in the neck)

That game should never have reached OT, the Bruins scored very shortly after White got speared and they also scored on the BS powerplay where Rupp got called when Savard dived. All things being equal the Devils win that game 2-1 in regulation.
These extra points (even in losses) inflate the Bruins record, and it's transparent, similar to the Rangers SO record (bring back ties-eliminate the skills game, aka SO)

NJ has had 14 games decided in OT or the SO this year, one more than Boston. If what you are saying is, NJ has won more of those games, whether by SO or OT, then you are correct. Boston has won 6 and lost 7, NJ has won 11 and lost 3. However, some of NJ's win's are still by the SO. We still aren't pure, either. Under your rules, NJ would give back 4 points from the wins by SO, and all 3 of the points from the losses. That's 7 points. Boston would give back the 7 points from the losses and 3 points from the wins in the SO, that's 10 points. They would still be ahead of NJ. I don't really see that that would change.

I love that in your version of the game in Boston, you seem to think that the first Boston goal just magically appeared, and wasn't caused by our own goalie's stupidity. Also, I don't recall that their getting away with spearing Colin White actually caused them to score a goal. Yes, they should have gotten a penalty for it. But, it didn't actually put the puck in the net for them.

I read the Boston boards after that game. You want to know what they were saying? Their goalie cost them the game. It's amazing how the two sides can look at it. They think Thomas was a sieve on both the 3rd NJ goal and the winning OT goal.

Please, you know what your post would sound like if you read it? Joe Micheletti doing color commentary on a Ranger game (if you substituted NY for NJ). According to him, the refs pretty much cost NY most of their games.
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