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#21 devilsrule33

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 11:37 AM

Detroit's the best scouting team, of that I have no doubt, but there's clearly an element of luck in the way things have played out for them.


Absolutely. You don't think Datsyuk and Zetterberg are going to be stars and take them in the 6th round 171st overall and 7th round 210th overall respectively. You take them as soon as you can.

But they don't even use the first round of the draft and care for it. From 2001-2004 they didn't even have a first round pick, same with 2006. Nik Kronwall is there only first round pick who has not only been solid but made a dent in the NHL (besides Fischer). Look at some of these years....


1994

Tomas Holmstrom - 10th round 257th overall

2002

Jiri Hudler - 58th overall
Thomas Fleischmann 63rd overall
Valtteri Filppula - 95th overall

2004

Johnan Franzen - 97th overall

But besides drafting...almost anything the team touches turns to gold. They signed Brett Lebda as an undrafted free agent. Who was Mikael Samuelsson? The Wings picked him up after being on 4 teams in 4 years and he immediately nets 23 goals and 45 points. He has been a constant 40 point player for them.

What about Daniel Clearly? No one wanted to touch this player. He couldn't earn a contract after the lockout and only got a spot on this team after a training camp tryout. He has become such a big part of this team. From castoff to 20 goal, 40 point player for this team.

And lastly we keep seeing Darren Helm. AHL star and healthy scratch by the season. Solid playoff contributor and regular by night. The 5th round pick in 2005 has now played 29 playoff games and counting in two years compared to 23 regular season games. It seems like the Wings are doing the exact opposite that the Devils are. While they scratched Pandolfo for a large part of the year and then promoted him come playoff time, the Wings played Maltby all year and are now scratching him for guys like Helm and Justin Abdelkader. Justin Abdelkader like Helm, has now played more playoff games this year than career regular season games.

Edited by devilsrule33, 17 May 2009 - 11:58 AM.

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#22 Triumph

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 11:57 AM

And lastly we keep seeing Darren Helm. AHL star and healthy scratch by the season. Solid playoff contributor and regular by night. The 5th round pick in 2005 has now played 29 playoff games and counting in two years compared to 23 regular season games. It seems like the Wings are doing the exact opposite that the Devils are. While they scratched Pandolfo for a large part of the year and then promoted him come playoff time, the Wings played Maltby all year and are now scratching him for guys like Helm and Justin Abdelkader. Justin Abdelkader like Helm, has now played more playoff games this year than career regular season games.


that was a nice post, but in fairness, the player the devils scratched for jay pandolfo's return to the lineup was bobby holik, a player who was even older than pandolfo. it's not like some young wunderkind got booted. but yeah i agree the wings aren't afraid to sit guys who aren't playing well, and maltby and draper really haven't been very good these last few seasons.
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#23 devilsrule33

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 12:23 PM

that was a nice post, but in fairness, the player the devils scratched for jay pandolfo's return to the lineup was bobby holik, a player who was even older than pandolfo. it's not like some young wunderkind got booted. but yeah i agree the wings aren't afraid to sit guys who aren't playing well, and maltby and draper really haven't been very good these last few seasons.


But Helm and Abdelkader aren't like Holik. Helm and Abdelkader playing for Maltby and Draper is the equivalent of Vrana, Bergfors and Halischuk playing for Pandolfo. Abdelkader had played only 4 career NHL games before these playoffs without registering a point and played 76 games in the AHL. Helm pretty much has the same deal.

You have to give credit to the Wings management and coaching staff for putting these inexperienced players right into the fire and knowing that some of these older vets just can't hack it anymore. Lou was the complete opposite with Pandolfo. He kept talking about his past, and what a big time playoff performer he is.
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"It goes to the captain and then there are handoffs during a skate around the ice" Mike Emrick as Scott Stevens is being presented the Stanley Cup.


#24 Triumph

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 01:31 PM

But Helm and Abdelkader aren't like Holik. Helm and Abdelkader playing for Maltby and Draper is the equivalent of Vrana, Bergfors and Halischuk playing for Pandolfo. Abdelkader had played only 4 career NHL games before these playoffs without registering a point and played 76 games in the AHL. Helm pretty much has the same deal.

You have to give credit to the Wings management and coaching staff for putting these inexperienced players right into the fire and knowing that some of these older vets just can't hack it anymore. Lou was the complete opposite with Pandolfo. He kept talking about his past, and what a big time playoff performer he is.


except that pandolfo really wasn't bad in the playoffs and did some tremendous penalty killing work. it wasn't the equivalent of anything that happened on new jersey. kirk maltby has been falling out of favor there for years - his ice time was 16 minutes a game in 2003-04, down to 13:11 in 2006-07, down to 9:08 this season.

abdelkader got in because of an injury as i recall and babcock was impressed with how he played so he left him in.

darren helm wasn't on the wings this year iirc because of cap issues.
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#25 Devils Pride 26

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 01:33 PM

Read this

very very good article were Holland talks how they Wings are always so good.

I think it's because #5, puck possesion. They never have a Jay Leach, Mike Mottau, or Colin White in there. There D core is the best in the league and it just goes to show Lou needs to rebuild this defense.
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#26 SS-SS

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 01:00 AM

The Red Wings club is a really intelligent if not the most intelligent hockey club.They have that magic

touch...they never make big

trades but when they make one they don't make a single mistake...when they scout they give as much

importance to their first and second round picks as they give to the 6 and 7 round picks...plus they got a good

scouting personal.When they sign players its usually for long periods this secure you at least a top 4 or 5

players.And when they choose players they usually choose skilled versatile players...that way you got less

details to worry of.

Edited by SS-SS, 18 May 2009 - 01:06 AM.

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#27 Marshall

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 03:39 PM

It's all a combination of things, and success breeds success if you handle it right.

What I like the most is how they slowly but surely bring the kids into the organization and don't rush them. They play when they're ready, not because they're a high draft pick.
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#28 Prucenterrules

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 04:35 PM

What I like the most is how they slowly but surely bring the kids into the organization and don't rush them. They play when they're ready, not because they're a high draft pick.

Sort of like what we do. Although some players we have rushed in.
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#29 IceThief

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 10:56 PM

this team is unbelievable. how is it that nearly every year they are a Cup contender without any high draft picks or big time free agent acquisitions? Not to mention their veterans like Draper seem to never lose a step.


Detroit is the mother of all franchises.

They have one hell of a farm system.
They draft well.
They pick and choose the UFA's they feel like they need to fill any holes that they have.
They have one of the best GMs in all of hockey.
They have one of the best owners in all of hockey.
They're open-minded as hell in continuing to build that franchise.
And last, but certainly not least, the players LOVE, ABSOLUTELY LOVE, playing in that city.
Oh wait a minute, I forgot one thing, they have a philosophy that is built around winning the cup every single year. Anything else is unnacceptable. To be Numero Uno is all that matters.

The only black mark that I can attribute to them is how they handled the Dom Hasek/Cujo fiasco, when Dom decided that he wanted to come back and play, leaving Cujo on the outside looking in after only one year.

The Winged Wheel is unique and special.

Some may not like them, but no one can say that they don't do things the right way because they definetly do.

:D

Edited by IceThief, 19 May 2009 - 10:03 PM.

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#30 Jerrydevil

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 06:41 PM

They're basically the only good thing in Detroit these days.
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#31 devils26

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 10:58 PM

And last, but certainly not least, the players LOVE, ABSOLUTELY LOVE, playing in that city.

The amazing thing is that this concept is both a cause and an effect of the great things happening with that team.
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#32 Beezer34

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 01:09 AM

this team is unbelievable. how is it that nearly every year they are a Cup contender without any high draft picks or big time free agent acquisitions? Not to mention their veterans like Draper seem to never lose a step.


...excellent scouting, solid core of prime talent, smart free agent spending, good defense, ability to retain their UFA's, (the ones that matter) great managerial decisions, (coaching, trades, scouting, etc) leadership, heart, perfect mix of youth/roll'players/veterans, chemistry... there's no one answer to look for, there's many. They're an incredible organization that's run wisely, and professionally.

It's remarkable that they're 2 wins away from their 6th trip to the Stanley Cup finals since 1995. You can't help but take your hat off to them.

Edited by Beezer34, 20 May 2009 - 01:11 AM.

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#33 CRASHER

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 01:22 AM

and somehow through all this Chris Osgood is morphing into the modern-day Grant Fuhr with this team... it's not pretty... maybe he's not good.. but he WINS with this damn team, and I can't explain it in any other way!
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#34 95Crash

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 09:31 AM

They don't even use the first round of the draft and care for it. From 2001-2004 they didn't even have a first round pick, same with 2006. Nik Kronwall is there only first round pick who has not only been solid but made a dent in the NHL (besides Fischer). Look at some of these years....

1994
Tomas Holmstrom - 10th round 257th overall

2002
Jiri Hudler - 58th overall
Thomas Fleischmann 63rd overall
Valtteri Filppula - 95th overall

2004
Johnan Franzen - 97th overall

But besides drafting...almost anything the team touches turns to gold. They signed Brett Lebda as an undrafted free agent. Who was Mikael Samuelsson? The Wings picked him up after being on 4 teams in 4 years and he immediately nets 23 goals and 45 points. He has been a constant 40 point player for them.

What about Daniel Clearly? No one wanted to touch this player. He couldn't earn a contract after the lockout and only got a spot on this team after a training camp tryout. He has become such a big part of this team. From castoff to 20 goal, 40 point player for this team.

And lastly we keep seeing Darren Helm. AHL star and healthy scratch by the season. Solid playoff contributor and regular by night. The 5th round pick in 2005 has now played 29 playoff games and counting in two years compared to 23 regular season games. It seems like the Wings are doing the exact opposite that the Devils are. While they scratched Pandolfo for a large part of the year and then promoted him come playoff time, the Wings played Maltby all year and are now scratching him for guys like Helm and Justin Abdelkader. Justin Abdelkader like Helm, has now played more playoff games this year than career regular season games.


Helm and Abdelkader playing for Maltby and Draper is the equivalent of Vrana, Bergfors and Halischuk playing for Pandolfo. Abdelkader had played only 4 career NHL games before these playoffs without registering a point and played 76 games in the AHL. Helm pretty much has the same deal.

You have to give credit to the Wings management and coaching staff for putting these inexperienced players right into the fire and knowing that some of these older vets just can't hack it anymore.

It truly is incredible what this team does.
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#35 gotbrodeur

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 01:49 PM

this team is unbelievable. how is it that nearly every year they are a Cup contender without any high draft picks or big time free agent acquisitions? Not to mention their veterans like Draper seem to never lose a step.

True. Nothing against the red wings but I hope they don't win the stanley cup this year. I'm sick of fanboys ALWAYS choosing to play as the red wings on NHL 09 online because they won the cup last year. It's not that much fun to continually annihilate the wings with my devs over and over and over and over......... After the first 50 wins, it gets old.
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#36 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 03:40 PM

The only black mark that I can attribute to them is how they handled the Dom Hasek/Cujo fiasco, when Dom decided that he wanted to come back and play, leaving Cujo on the outside looking in after only one year.


And even though they may have mishandled that one (atleast to Cujo), they still won a Cup.
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#37 SS-SS

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 04:40 PM

True. Nothing against the red wings but I hope they don't win the stanley cup this year. I'm sick of fanboys ALWAYS choosing to play as the red wings on NHL 09 online because they won the cup last year. It's not that much fun to continually annihilate the wings with my devs over and over and over and over......... After the first 50 wins, it gets old.


Damn right
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#38 95Crash

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 08:38 AM

Read this

very very good article were Holland talks how they Wings are always so good.

I think it's because #5, puck possesion. They never have a Jay Leach, Mike Mottau, or Colin White in there. There D core is the best in the league and it just goes to show Lou needs to rebuild this defense.

Great article! :thumbsup:

Where can we find a guy like Jim Nill?
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#39 IceThief

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 01:07 PM

And even though they may have mishandled that one (atleast to Cujo), they still won a Cup.


Play that back for me, please.

Dom came back from retirement to play again and he wanted to start. The Yeti were in dire need at that time and the Winged Wheel, who held his rights, knew it. If they had let Dom walk, the Yeti would have lassoed Dom and reeled him in. To keep them from doing that, Detroit reupped him because if they hadn't they would have been playing AGAINST HIM and they didn't want that.

The only problem with taking Dom back into the fold was that they already had Cujo as their starter. The brouhaha that ensued was embarassing to watch. Cujo was basically thrown UNDER THE BUS and labeled as the cause that they didn't advance far into the playoffs the one and only year that he started for them. In fact, I think I remember that they didn't make it past the first round (correct me if I'm wrong and they made it to the second round only to fall short).

Someone help me out with the details here, because the Way Back machine implanted in my brain is short-circuiting on me. I don't quite remember if Cujo was banished to the minors before he was cut loose or if they just out-right showed him the door on the seat of his pants.

Cujo went from TO to Detroit because he wanted to win a Cup with an organization that he knew was capable of winning one. The problem is that the team around him, with all of their superstars intact at that point in time, didn't do jack s**t and he had to have the perfect series for them to win. I'd love to look his numbers up from that series just to refresh my memory banks on just how he did stats wise in a loosing effort due to his team spitting the bit in front of him. I don't think he ever dreamed that in his one year, the bottom would drop out from under him and he'd be the butt of all of the scorn and blame for their failures on ice in the playoffs.

That one incident alone left a bad taste in my mouth for the Winged Wheel as much as I admire the way that franchise is run and their legacy on ice since Illitch took the reins.

Edited by IceThief, 21 May 2009 - 01:25 PM.

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In honor of one of the greatest dmen to ever play the game, I remain to this day and forever after a lifetime member of the Scott Stevens Fan Club:

"If you ever had to describe what a Devil player would be," said Devils general manager Lou Lamoriello, "the name would be Scott Stevens."

"He was just huge," Devils left wing Patrik Elias said of walking into training camp the first time in 1995. "I was afraid of him. You had a 170-pound guy coming here and he was 220, 225 with these paws like a bear. I was pretty intimidated the first few years. I'm happy he was on my side the whole time."

#40 IceThief

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 01:27 PM

And even though they may have mishandled that one (atleast to Cujo), they still won a Cup.


They won a cup with Dom at the helm before his retirement, not after he came back.

Edited by IceThief, 21 May 2009 - 01:33 PM.

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In honor of one of the greatest dmen to ever play the game, I remain to this day and forever after a lifetime member of the Scott Stevens Fan Club:

"If you ever had to describe what a Devil player would be," said Devils general manager Lou Lamoriello, "the name would be Scott Stevens."

"He was just huge," Devils left wing Patrik Elias said of walking into training camp the first time in 1995. "I was afraid of him. You had a 170-pound guy coming here and he was 220, 225 with these paws like a bear. I was pretty intimidated the first few years. I'm happy he was on my side the whole time."




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